[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Yes, but not buying the top model or most powerful model doesn't have to equate to not being an enthusiast. There are probably more badge buyers than enthusiasts who buy ///M or AMG models and worldwide probably more enthusiasts who buy 320i models than M3s. As the premise of this thread was "who would buy a 320i?" The answer is plenty of enlightened enthusiasts when it is speced in the right way, plus plenty of others who aren't enthusiasts, as it is still at or near the top of the class compared with competitors and can be speced in a myriad of ways that American can't purchase, to meet all sorts of tastes and levels of "enthusiasm".

I don't think you're talking to the right person lol since I was answering the question of "why would anyone buy a 320i when there are other options available" (paraphrasing)
You and I are in agreement

[Tony88]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

I don't think you're talking to the right person lol since I was answering the question of "why would anyone buy a 320i when there are other options available" (paraphrasing)
You and I are in agreement

You guys are misunderstanding what I was trying to say.

I agree with you both 100%.

What I was speaking of was specifically the 320's I was given as loaners. Bare bones, no option 320i's.

I know you can spec out a 320 and make it a very nice car with a still (in my opinion) under powered motor. What I was trying to say is who buys a absolute stripper 320i when for similar coin you can have a Japanese car that excels in most aspects over the BMW. Have you ever been in a stripper 320? It's pretty depressing. I would take a decent Honda over one any day of the week. Hell I would take my old 01 325ci over a brand new 320 in a heartbeat.

Spec a 320 up a little bit and I would probably be back in the F30.

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

It’s funny you mention “Japanese or American” cars. The Accord is no longer sold in Europe; the Camry disappeared a decade ago. Even Ford’s Mondeo (Mondeo - “world car”, heh) is becoming extinct. And it goes without saying that there are no American cars here in any number. I guess I don’t count BMW as hugely aspirational, because there is much less “below” it.

My thoughts don't stretch beyond North America. I don't know the market there so I have no opinion on it.

[ArcticFormula]

I don’t know, but Audi in Valencia, CA has always given me a latest model year Audi loaner even for oil changes. Like some mentioned it is fun to drive other cars and such, but the point of the original post was he was given a substandard car. I agree. I’ve just ordered a BMW and hope if I do need a loaner or curtosey car or whatever folks want to call it is that they don’t send some Enterprise POS and call it a day. Clearly that is not the way it needs to work. Isn’t BMW like one of the most profitable car companies currently at least in terms of margin. They need to suck it up and provide a decent loaner. It’s called maintaining customer goodwill.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by Tony88

That's the point! Rhetorical question. I'm asking myself why somebody would pay a premium to be in a bottom of the line BMW that is more spartan and has less performance than pretty much any Japanese or even American car. I guess to some people those three letters mean a whole hell of a lot!

I've never driven a 320i, but have owned my fair share of Japanese, American, and Korean cars over the years. If the 320i drives like the 328i, but with less power, I'd still go with that over a quicker FWD appliance. Balance, RWD propulsion, and solid construction will win me over every time. I'm pretty sure a lightly used 320i can be had for close enough to the base price of a new FWD competitor for money to not be the end-all-be-all factor in making that decision. To each their own I guess.

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Those people are still the minority. The majority of car owners do not care about performance. To them vehicles are just a tool but they want the brand prestige

Because you think of BMW as a prestige badge, and look down on people who do not buy the absolute top-end model, you think that all people (who may not see BMW the way you do) as badge-obsessed, having just spoken for all of Europe, for example. Are you not able to comprehend that BMW, especially in its home market, is not a prestige/classy/preppy/yacht club/upscale auto and that a 320d or 318i is just a completely normal car? If not, why are you not able to accept it?

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by Tony88

What I was trying to say is who buys a absolute stripper 320i when for similar coin you can have a Japanese car that excels in most aspects over the BMW.

The only Japanese car that makes any impact over here is the Mazda 6, and that's cheaper than BMW/Audi/MB/VW for a reason. All the others are dead and gone. I suppose it's not worth having the debate at this point. BMW needs to make different cars for wildly different (and diverging) markets, that's pretty clear.

Have you ever been in a stripper 320? It's pretty depressing.

If you're use toys and luxury as your satisfaction yardsticks, then of course. It's interesting that standard BMW traits - build, handling, finish - mean less to you than button count. Point above about different tastes requiring different approaches.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

Because you think of BMW as a prestige badge, and look down on people who do not buy the absolute top-end model, you think that all people (who may not see BMW the way you do) as badge-obsessed, having just spoken for all of Europe, for example. Are you not able to comprehend that BMW, especially in its home market, is not a prestige/classy/preppy/yacht club/upscale auto and that a 320d or 318i is just a completely normal car? If not, why are you not able to accept it?

Uhhh I never said I look down on people. Don't put words in my mouth. What you're saying is basically what I have said so I don't know why YOU are being condescending.

[Unicorn123]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

Because you think of BMW as a prestige badge, and look down on people who do not buy the absolute top-end model, you think that all people (who may not see BMW the way you do) as badge-obsessed, having just spoken for all of Europe, for example. Are you not able to comprehend that BMW, especially in its home market, is not a prestige/classy/preppy/yacht club/upscale auto and that a 320d or 318i is just a completely normal car? If not, why are you not able to accept it?

Agreed. This is all a matter of perspective.

Interestingly, this thread has become related to the "stereotype" thread on the forum indirectly...and appears to be rather insightful!

[ScottAndrew]

Originally Posted by nioh_lbbm2

Uhhh I never said I look down on people.

" The majority of car owners do not care about performance. To them vehicles are just a tool but they want the brand prestige."

Lol.

[nioh_lbbm2]

Originally Posted by ScottAndrew

" The majority of car owners do not care about performance. To them vehicles are just a tool but they want the brand prestige."

Lol.

And that's true, vast majority of car owners don't care about frills they just want a certain car from a brand they like to get them from point A to point B (aka they just need a vehicle). It's basically what you said in your own words. I'm not trying to say BMW is the best and is only for elite people. Sorry if you misunderstood. It's why a lot of car brands offer an entry level model in their lineup and if we're talking about BMW (which the OP of my first comment in this thread was asking about why there are so many 320i cars available) this no frills car happens to be the 3 series. You're making an argument out of nothing. Read the entire context before you comment.