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      09-01-2020, 04:22 AM   #1
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XHP TCU Flash Detection

Straight from XHP support:

"xHP cant be detected by any BMW tool they use at the moment. The only thing what they see is that you cleared the fault history but this does not have a effect for warranty cases as its not illegal to delete the fault history. Our Software is also Read protected so BMW cant download the xHP file from the Transmisson but they can overflash our Software with they tools when they do a Service or Update to the car."

Sounds great... Anyone buying into this? I know the guys at XHP do amazing stuff... but almost seems too good to be true. Would love to hear some thoughts.
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      09-03-2020, 04:28 PM   #2
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Anyone? Also is there much benefit if not remapped?
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      09-03-2020, 08:42 PM   #3
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I have been using it since I got the car a few months ago, so far no problems - but I've just got out of warranty last month. You'll just have to reflash it if it gets erased. Or just go back to stock, it takes seconds to do with the MHD wifi flasher.
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      09-03-2020, 09:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by e46dreammachine View Post
I have been using it since I got the car a few months ago, so far no problems - but I've just got out of warranty last month. You'll just have to reflash it if it gets erased. Or just go back to stock, it takes seconds to do with the MHD wifi flasher.
Haha nice to see you again. Did you have it on stock flash? Or did you have ECU tune with it? Are you buying the whole, "not detectable" thing and do you think it affects reliability and upshift burble noises significantly? Thanks!
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      09-06-2020, 12:14 AM   #5
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      09-06-2020, 08:51 AM   #6
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Hey mate,

I think everything depends on how you treat the car regardless of TCU flash or not. I had it on stock ECU with xhp stage 2. Detectability isn't a concern anymore since I'm out of warranty but I'd just use caution not to beat too hard on it. I know it's hard, these cars love moving lol.
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      09-06-2020, 09:10 AM   #7
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One thing to give a bit of thought to is as if about a month ago, BMW is now detecting previous piggyback turbocharged engine tunes even if the piggyback is fully removed prior to service.

They are finding this by the engine automatically labeling itself as "tampered" when the max boost is pushed over what the max boost was from the factory. This instantly causes a void in the engine and drivetrain warranty.

I'm unsure how the flash from OP works, but I'd dive deep into this if you're worried about warranty at all.
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      09-08-2020, 11:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e46dreammachine View Post
Hey mate,

I think everything depends on how you treat the car regardless of TCU flash or not. I had it on stock ECU with xhp stage 2. Detectability isn't a concern anymore since I'm out of warranty but I'd just use caution not to beat too hard on it. I know it's hard, these cars love moving lol.
Thanks for the response man. I was looking to go stage 2 XHP with stock tune as well. Was that a good pairing?
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      09-08-2020, 11:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrettKA7 View Post
One thing to give a bit of thought to is as if about a month ago, BMW is now detecting previous piggyback turbocharged engine tunes even if the piggyback is fully removed prior to service.

They are finding this by the engine automatically labeling itself as "tampered" when the max boost is pushed over what the max boost was from the factory. This instantly causes a void in the engine and drivetrain warranty.

I'm unsure how the flash from OP works, but I'd dive deep into this if you're worried about warranty at all.
Hey Brett. Yes I've heard about this and have since decided to hold off on tuning my car's ECU. MHD/BM3 will void the warranty 100%. The tunes that offer warranty aren't really good... (Carbahn and Dinan make significantly less power than other flashes. Noelle I'm pretty sure voids the warranty if you have a downpipe so that's useless to me as well. Not to mention they're all significantly more expensive.) I've asked BM3 support and MHD directly about detectability and both confirmed that the dealer could tell it was flashed. XHP on the other hand says they won't see it. If this is true I'd obviously love to give stage 2 a try but I wanted to see what other forum members thought about XHP's claims first.
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      09-09-2020, 12:56 AM   #10
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It is unlikely a dealer tech would be able to tell if an ECU/TCU tune had been removed if write counters have been reset properly. If there is a major problem, though, the ECU/TCU Is likely to be sent back to the manufacturing plant for fault analysis, at that point bench data extracted that may not be accessible via an OBD port flash would likely show changes from the original manufactured state. I would be surprised if there isn’t out-of-band (i.e. not in the remote flashable EEPROM) count and checksum information and in some cases time related information in any modern ECU, if not just to protect system integrity as opposed to tampering detection.

Although my manufacturing fault analysis goes back to mid-frame disk drives in the late 80s, even then we could obtain a lot of change data from the device from bench analysis in our lab and manufacturing plant, that could not be accessed via the drive’s interface.
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      09-09-2020, 05:27 AM   #11
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I've asked it in other threads, and nobody seems to respond...

So then, I'll ask again!

Why not just get an ECU, same make/model from pick & pull or wherever, and swap it, flash that one and preserve the original in unmolested state. Then if there's a problem, a simple swap back to stock is all that's needed. No? What other modules, record and store information? That is the question...

As for XHP... I can't see how changing shift points and maybe line pressures would void a warranty unless torque protections were disabled. Just my $.02...
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      09-09-2020, 02:06 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
It is unlikely a dealer tech would be able to tell if an ECU/TCU tune had been removed if write counters have been reset properly. If there is a major problem, though, the ECU/TCU Is likely to be sent back to the manufacturing plant for fault analysis, at that point bench data extracted that may not be accessible via an OBD port flash would likely show changes from the original manufactured state. I would be surprised if there isn't out-of-band (i.e. not in the remote flashable EEPROM) count and checksum information and in some cases time related information in any modern ECU, if not just to protect system integrity as opposed to tampering detection.

Although my manufacturing fault analysis goes back to mid-frame disk drives in the late 80s, even then we could obtain a lot of change data from the device from bench analysis in our lab and manufacturing plant, that could not be accessed via the drive's interface.
Thanks for taking the time to respond That seemed to be the understanding up until recently. Even piggy's are being detected after uninstalling. I am not sure however if the computer for the transmission is different and not detectable.) Could be so and that's why I started this thread to try and find out. Most tuners will tell you that if BMW wants to find out, they can. XHP was the only one to specifically say that it is not detectable at the dealer level. Also 2020 DMEs I've heard have required a bench flash but I'm not sure if XHP requires it...
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      09-09-2020, 02:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
I've asked it in other threads, and nobody seems to respond...

So then, I'll ask again!

Why not just get an ECU, same make/model from pick & pull or wherever, and swap it, flash that one and preserve the original in unmolested state. Then if there's a problem, a simple swap back to stock is all that's needed. No? What other modules, record and store information? That is the question...

As for XHP... I can't see how changing shift points and maybe line pressures would void a warranty unless torque protections were disabled. Just my $.02...
Having an extra ECU to swap in and out sounds great. I'd imagine an ECU to be a decently expensive part though, and I'd assume that BMW would be able to find out by checking and referencing dates. XHP does raise line pressure and torque limits. I would assume that a dealer would not honor the warranty if they knew XHP was installed.. the question is.. can they tell??
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      09-14-2020, 04:03 PM   #14
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Well, what reference dates? I'm talking about having an extra ECU for any interactions with the dealer as well. You bring it in for service, swap it out, as long as the ECU isn't getting any OTA updates, it would work fine. And I doubt the ECU would get OTA updates as it's too critical that if something weren't to take properly, there'd be bigger problems for them.

Anyways, it's funny how the keyboard experts are all silent on this particular method

Lol
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      09-14-2020, 04:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Well, what reference dates? I'm talking about having an extra ECU for any interactions with the dealer as well. You bring it in for service, swap it out, as long as the ECU isn't getting any OTA updates, it would work fine. And I doubt the ECU would get OTA updates as it's too critical that if something weren't to take properly, there'd be bigger problems for them.

Anyways, it's funny how the keyboard experts are all silent on this particular method

Lol
You can't just swap the ECU (DME) from another car (or a new one for that matter) without updating and aligning it with the EWS system to ensure the VIN locked rolling codes that the system modules communicate with EWS are in-sync and correct. Who knows what other counters or EEPROM values in other modules are affected when this is done? It isn't just a case of swapping the DME in and out in isolation, as the security system controlled by the EWS will just prevent the car from starting.
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      09-14-2020, 06:58 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aerobod View Post
You can't just swap the ECU (DME) from another car (or a new one for that matter) without updating and aligning it with the EWS system to ensure the VIN locked rolling codes that the system modules communicate with EWS are in-sync and correct. Who knows what other counters or EEPROM values in other modules are affected when this is done? It isn't just a case of swapping the DME in and out in isolation, as the security system controlled by the EWS will just prevent the car from starting.
I'd sort of figured that one wasn't going to fly.
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      09-15-2020, 12:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cooolone2 View Post
Well, what reference dates? I'm talking about having an extra ECU for any interactions with the dealer as well. You bring it in for service, swap it out, as long as the ECU isn't getting any OTA updates, it would work fine. And I doubt the ECU would get OTA updates as it's too critical that if something weren't to take properly, there'd be bigger problems for them.

Anyways, it's funny how the keyboard experts are all silent on this particular method

Lol
Well, I can not answer you specifically on what reference dates.. but you would think an ECU as sophisticated as the ones in our cars would also log date and time of the data it's reading. Surely even if you were somehow able to trick the car into accepting another ECU I would expect them to see that the last data on the ECU you swapped doesn't match up. IE the dates for all data would be like 3 months old from when you last had it in the car. Again, not an expert at all on any of this... ****Can we please keep the conversation about XHP and it's detection***
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      09-17-2020, 05:51 PM   #18
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No one seems to have an answer to this.. I'd love to just take XHP's word for it but it is their product lol...
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      10-04-2020, 09:55 PM   #19
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      10-05-2020, 08:23 AM   #20
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I can't answer the question about detecting xHP.

Quite possibly xHP are correct in saying "not at dealer level at this present moment". But I would think ZF would pick it up if there was a failure and were asked to warranty a new gearbox. It's possible they could deny the warranty, which BMW would pass forward.

It's worth mentioning that the ZF8 is almost bulletproof, so risks are low.

But I digressed, I had xHP on my stage 2 tuned, and all I can say is "Meh!" Went straight to stage 3 and struggled to tell any kind of difference.
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      10-05-2020, 07:02 PM   #21
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Quote:
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I can't answer the question about detecting xHP.

Quite possibly xHP are correct in saying "not at dealer level at this present moment". But I would think ZF would pick it up if there was a failure and were asked to warranty a new gearbox. It's possible they could deny the warranty, which BMW would pass forward.

It's worth mentioning that the ZF8 is almost bulletproof, so risks are low.

But I digressed, I had xHP on my stage 2 tuned, and all I can say is "Meh!" Went straight to stage 3 and struggled to tell any kind of difference.
Damn, really? When was this, I know xHP has updated a lot. I was looking to try out XHP on stock tune but if you didn't notice much with your stage 2 tune then I don't know how much I would notice on stock ecu tune. It seems to be 50/50 between - i absolutely love it you have to get it, it makes it shift so much faster and - i don't think it made that much of a difference/ didn't like it. So hm....
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      10-07-2020, 03:51 AM   #22
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Stage 2 and stock makes a noticeable difference. Stage 3 is too aggressive for the street.
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