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      11-05-2017, 08:22 PM   #661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Hm. Wonder if a new tune for the amp will be required for the new subs. Will have to discuss with Jason at some point, I have been procrastinating about amp bc I don't want to do the install on a convertible (pain in the ass). I will be swapping out my Gen 1 for Gen 2 subs as soon as they arrive - will be sure to post a review after break in.
I received the new version of the Ghost subs yesterday and installed them today. The installation was not too bad, but not quite as easy as Bavsound's video suggested. In particular, the bolts holding the seats in place did not want to give it up; I had to use the long wrench I use for removing lugnuts.

The new subs have a metal cover on top with lots of small holes. It looks cool, and it prevented clumsy me from actually poking the speaker parts. Also, there is a new foam gasket on the bottom instead of the sticky stuff.

The subs haven't broken in properly yet, but even on first listen, they were a vast improvement over the HK subs.
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      11-06-2017, 04:36 AM   #662
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Any opinions on Audiofrog speakers? The reviews seem overwhelmingly positive.
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      11-06-2017, 05:38 AM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctemkin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Hm. Wonder if a new tune for the amp will be required for the new subs. Will have to discuss with Jason at some point, I have been procrastinating about amp bc I don't want to do the install on a convertible (pain in the ass). I will be swapping out my Gen 1 for Gen 2 subs as soon as they arrive - will be sure to post a review after break in.
I received the new version of the Ghost subs yesterday and installed them today. The installation was not too bad, but not quite as easy as Bavsound's video suggested. In particular, the bolts holding the seats in place did not want to give it up; I had to use the long wrench I use for removing lugnuts.

The new subs have a metal cover on top with lots of small holes. It looks cool, and it prevented clumsy me from actually poking the speaker parts. Also, there is a new foam gasket on the bottom instead of the sticky stuff.

The subs haven't broken in properly yet, but even on first listen, they were a vast improvement over the HK subs.
You definitely need a socket wrench. There is no way to get those bolts out (or properly tighten them again) without one. Bavsound should include that in the instructions.
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      11-06-2017, 10:17 AM   #664
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The Bavsound took kit includes a socket wrench, and it worked for most of the bolts. The problem was that some bolts were on so tightly, I couldn't get enough leverage with the included wrench to do the trick. I had to use a longer wrench (fortunately I was able to locate a connector so that I could attach the Torx 50 socket).

The subs are still breaking in, but they are much clearer even now than the HK subs, and I am delighted with them.
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      11-21-2017, 12:40 PM   #665
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For those looking to do the rear speakers, I have a spare set of Focal pc100s. From Crutchfield they are $279. Vastly better alternative for the rears than the jbl and not much more money from me ;-).
About subs, I am running the Focal V2s and they are incredible. Awesome punch. They were about $250 each and well worth it.

Last edited by ryem3; 11-21-2017 at 12:51 PM..
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      11-21-2017, 01:06 PM   #666
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctemkin View Post
The Bavsound took kit includes a socket wrench, and it worked for most of the bolts. The problem was that some bolts were on so tightly, I couldn't get enough leverage with the included wrench to do the trick. I had to use a longer wrench (fortunately I was able to locate a connector so that I could attach the Torx 50 socket).

The subs are still breaking in, but they are much clearer even now than the HK subs, and I am delighted with them.
I can add that Bavsound V2 is better than V1 as well. I wouldn't necessarily swap out unless you had a buyer lined up or another car and could offload the V1 on wife or something, but they're better.
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      11-25-2017, 02:02 AM   #667
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Thanks selmeralto, Solarphil, & Viffermike.


Technic pnp harness on the way.

I've added the JLs to the rear. They are better in the sense you can actually hear something back there now. Is there really no need for components? I'm feeling a lot of bass and not much mid-range. I suppose the Etons fix that?

Playing with the tone settings to try and get it right, currently -1 on Bass and +2 to the rear.

Hope the Etons that just arrived work out. Excited to get these shitty factory speakers out but I'm not looking forward to pulling the door cards.
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      11-29-2017, 12:47 AM   #668
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I just took delivery of my 18 M240i. I opted for the stock system over the HK one in my M235i b/c I planned on gutting it anyways. I have to tell you that the stock system is so friggin vile that it makes the HK system seem like a bargain in comparison. I really don't understand how BMW finds this lack of audio performance acceptable in a car of this price and caliber. Now I am clamoring to change out the system. I never thought I'd find myself missing the HK system!
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      11-29-2017, 05:50 AM   #669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioholics View Post
I just took delivery of my 18 M240i. I opted for the stock system over the HK one in my M235i b/c I planned on gutting it anyways. I have to tell you that the stock system is so friggin vile that it makes the HK system seem like a bargain in comparison. I really don't understand how BMW finds this lack of audio performance acceptable in a car of this price and caliber. Now I am clamoring to change out the system. I never thought I'd find myself missing the HK system!
Don't forget that's the same system in a $30k 230 and an upgrade from the base system available in other parts of the world. The car - just like almost every other car in the world - is built with a budget in mind. HK in 2 = HiFi in 3 and beyond.
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      11-29-2017, 08:13 AM   #670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audioholics View Post
I just took delivery of my 18 M240i. I opted for the stock system over the HK one in my M235i b/c I planned on gutting it anyways. I have to tell you that the stock system is so friggin vile that it makes the HK system seem like a bargain in comparison. I really don't understand how BMW finds this lack of audio performance acceptable in a car of this price and caliber. Now I am clamoring to change out the system. I never thought I'd find myself missing the HK system!
"Vile." Perfect choice of words.
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      11-29-2017, 10:05 PM   #671
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Does anyone know if the speaker grille and cut out dimensions are the same for stock vs HK system for the rear deck? They seem smaller in my 18 M240i with stock system but I never actually measured. I'm hoping they will still accommodate a woofer and tweeter.
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Last edited by Audioholics; 11-29-2017 at 10:47 PM..
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      11-30-2017, 06:03 AM   #672
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I know that in the M235i they are. My car came with the base audio, I upgraded to Bavsound all around, and bought a set of the HK speaker grills, and window corner / sail panel tweeter housings. All the HK related pieces fit fine, and they have metal and plastic grills vs. all plastic.
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      12-19-2017, 09:21 AM   #673
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Follow Instructions and Install Carefully!

It goes without saying that any modifications you make to your car should be done with care. Member Fahizzo reports in another thread that when he and/or his father were putting a door panel back on he/they apparently put a screw through a wire connected to the airbag system. Result: a $930 repair involving getting a part shipped from Germany, not to mention the potential danger of driving without a fully functional airbag system.

A lot of people have been reading this thread and this is the first report of this kind of error. It shouldn't deter people from making modifications to improve the dreadful sound of the BMW system. As Linda says about Willy, "Attention must be paid."

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      12-19-2017, 10:31 AM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by selmeralto View Post
It goes without saying that any modifications you make to your car should be done with care. Member Fahizzo reports in another thread that when he and/or his father were putting a door panel back on he/they apparently put a screw through a wire connected to the airbag system. Result: a $930 repair involving getting a part shipped from Germany, not to mention the potential danger of driving without a fully functional airbag system.

A lot of people have been reading this thread and this is the first report of this kind of error. It shouldn't deter people from making modifications to improve the dreadful sound of the BMW system ... but care should be taken.
Also worth pointing out, for a coupe at least, center, rear and under seat speakers are pretty idiot proof. Anyone can tackle those and there's no sense in paying a pro to do that work unless you just have $ to burn.

If you're anxious about anything just have the door speakers done professionally.
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      01-20-2018, 02:53 PM   #675
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viffermike View Post
adema24



fatumpsch, you need a reference system, my friend. I would do the following:
1) Determine the highest-fidelity audio system you have access to that can play both CDs and digital files.
2) Choose three 'reference' songs that you have both on CD and as one of those 256Kbps files. Good reference songs should be very dynamic and cleanly recorded, ideally with both simple and dense passages and quiet and loud passages, as well as notes played in very low and very high registers (the latter part is important). Bonus points if the recording has some audible 'imperfections' or subtleties such as a fretted-out guitar note, a crack in a voice, a sloppy cymbal hit, etc. An example of one of mine: "Owner of a Lonely Heart" by Yes, which has all of the ingredients above (The main imperfection: Trevor Rabin's opening riff has some intermittent overdrive breakup in it that can barely be heard on average systems but sticks out like a sore thumb on good ones.)
3). On that 'reference' system, set all eq flat. Make sure volume is the same for both CD playback and digital playback.
4). Play the CD version of the song, then play the 256Kbps version of the song, then play the CD version of the song again.
5). Boost treble on the system by 3-6db.
6). Repeat Step 4.
7). Return treble to flat, then boost bass by 3-6db.
8). Repeat Step 4.
9). Leave bass boosted. Boost treble 3-6db again.
10). Repeat Step 4.

If this doesn't convince you that lossless digital audio is the way to go, just use your phone and enjoy those 256Kbps files. But I doubt that will be the case ... and after doing such an A/B test, you'll realize by that much more how muddled up with DSP the OEM amp is.
Well, I tested out a number of things in my car with Strangelove setup. I thought I'd share my results for all the other hifi noobs. Audiophiles, you may want to skip this long post; if not, please don't flame my jargon ignorance or lack of a tuned ear. This post is meant for the layman, such as myself.

At first the difference between 256 kbps and 1411 kbps was hard for me to hear. But the more I listened to the first 10 seconds of one song, then switched to the first 10 seconds of the same song at the other bit rate, and repeated... the more I started to hear that the 256 is a little boomier on bass and the sustain on the cymbals sounds more artificial. However, if someone else set up which version would be played (so I didn't know which it was) then played only one song for me in isolation (say the next day), it was still sometimes hard for me to tell whether it was 256 or 1411. I could usually guess right though. When bit rate dropped below 256 the difference was much bigger for me, but above 320 the differences were harder to tell. 800+ was nearly indistinguishable from 1411 - again, probably partly due to being in my mid-40s. Also, I'm just used to listening to music casually and not studying the intricacies in a quiet repetitive manner. So I realized I don't have a golden ear. In fact, I believe my hearing is incredibly average. So I bought the FIIO X3ii from ebay for $150. It was several hours work to setup and make playlists.

Then I A/B tested FIIO vs bluetooth w/ an iPhone 8. This was a little harder to test, since the volume level was very different between the two sources, and somewhat jarring upon transition. Adjusting volume and switching source, resulted in a delay and break in continuity, which was distracting from the test. However, over time, I noticed that the FIIO had better separation of instruments and sounded better especially when there was a lot going on. Also the boost in signal really drove the speakers much better and the music was much clearer. However, if someone else set it up, I still occasionally guessed wrong, but mostly right.

However, when you compare the combination of 256 / bluetooth (bad/bad) with 1411 / FIIO (good/good), the difference is night and day and I can always immediately tell which combo it was - even in an isolated test (in a quiet garage without the car running).

So going forward, I'll choose bandcamp over iTunes, and choose format based on music type and recording quality. For some live, mid-grade, and/or old school recording, 320kbps is fine for me and will save storage space. For most of my music, especially my favorites and things recorded recently and/or in a good environment, I'll get 1411. I don't hear any difference above 1411. So I won't spend 20 per album for hi-res.

In general, I plan to use the FIIO when I'm driving more than 10 minutes or so in a quiet environment. However, in many cases I'll use bluetooth because it's more convenient. Bluetooth just turns on and you don't need to mess with a box in your armrest at the beginning of the trip, or to see what's playing, or change what you are listening to. Bluetooth has full music info displayed on center screen and full user controls on steering wheel (vs only steering wheel volume control with FIIO). If the family is riding with me or I'm speeding around in sport mode, I may also just let bluetooth hook up automatically, because then I won't be paying too much attention to the background music and will keep it turned low.

In short, I found if you want the best sound, use a DAP and lossless files... and don't turn on your car... or drive... especially not in sport mode. I'm glad I got the FIIO X3ii - and especially glad I didn't get a more expensive DAP. I will use the FIIO a lot, and as I get used to it I may end up using it more and more. Once you get used to better things it's harder to go back (I haven't had Folgers in years...). However, for me using the DAP isn't always worth the effort. Which setup I will use on any given drive will depend mostly on how long of a drive, the driving environment, and how much of a hurry I'm in.

Hope this helps anyone considering buying a DAP or figuring out what bitrate to use.

Last edited by fatumpsch; 01-21-2018 at 05:47 PM..
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      01-20-2018, 03:29 PM   #676
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Just for others considering the FiiO option if you get an X1 and use it like a jukebox you can set it to wake up and play whenever your car turns on, then it turns off when the car is off. I have one in my armrest plugged into Aux In, which is 8 on my presets. You can also get th remote to skip song.

So it's always running when the car is on, kind of like a lossless radio station that you picked all the music.
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      01-24-2018, 12:40 PM   #677
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Any Non-HK Setups?

Hello, First Post Here!

Just read through all 31 pages of this thread and I feel like I didn't get anywhere, granted, I have a Non-HK audio system so these Eton components don't work for me.

Center Stage -

Just disconnect it, I got that

Front -

What are Non-HK guys using? Seems like these Eton speakers are getting harder and harder to acquire, has anyone used any other speakers on the front doors? What modifications will be necessary, are spacer adapters needed to bring the speaker away from the window if using something other than Etons?

Rear -

Seems like the rears have a lot more freedom, other than being limited to just 4", seems like the JL C2-400 are the only speakers being tossed around, has anyone else experienced anything else?

Subs -

I am thinking just sticking with stock subs until after I figure out these speaker upgrades.


Will be ordering the weather stripping and some of this stuff:
https://www.amazon.com/Noico-deadeni.../dp/B00URUIKAK
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      01-24-2018, 01:59 PM   #678
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I have a non H-K system as well, installed Bavsound speakers in front doors and rear deck, and their under seat subs. "Upgraded" to their equivalent of an H-K system, and got the front door sail panel tweeter housings on Ebay, as well as H-K door and rear deck grills. They sound much better, and the Bavsounds are a direct fit, and plug and play in regard to the wiring harnesses.

If all you plan to do with the sound deadening is the door panels and or the back deck, 36 sq ft is way more than you need. I got 10 sq ft and only used 3 or 4 on the door panels.
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      01-24-2018, 03:24 PM   #679
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Kirbbz : I have a base stereo. I installed Hertz Energy 100.5 coaxials at all four corners, and ran a JL Audio 600.6 amp with the ASD delete harness from Technic. The difference was substantial. The Hertzs are a good match for the OEM stereo because they're relatively efficient, have good low-mid response for a speaker as small as they are, have a good dome tweeter with a decently wide dispersion angle, and have a wide range of power handling so that pairing them with a more powerful aftermarket amp isn't an issue.

There are other threads that describe options for non-HK systems. Folks have installed 4" coaxes by Focal, Morel, JL Audio, JBL, Alpine, and other brands in addition to the Bavsound and equivalent drop-in options. Do a search for my screen name in this subforum; you'll find most of those threads, in addition to some other talk regarding how to choose speakers for both options.

Good luck!
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      01-24-2018, 06:25 PM   #680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerryW235 View Post
I have a non H-K system as well, installed Bavsound speakers in front doors and rear deck, and their under seat subs. "Upgraded" to their equivalent of an H-K system, and got the front door sail panel tweeter housings on Ebay, as well as H-K door and rear deck grills. They sound much better, and the Bavsounds are a direct fit, and plug and play in regard to the wiring harnesses.

If all you plan to do with the sound deadening is the door panels and or the back deck, 36 sq ft is way more than you need. I got 10 sq ft and only used 3 or 4 on the door panels.
I just question wether the Bavsound stuff is worth the price, I understand they are direct fit, but I really care about how they sound, wondering if the quality is compared to something like Focals, or JL.

As for the sound deadening, I'm going to do the 25% rule on the trunk and possibly the rear quarter panels aswell, and attempt to do the full door, I have an aftermarket Fabspeed Muffler Delete (LOUD), so definitely want to try and sound proof the majority of the car.
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      01-24-2018, 07:50 PM   #681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirbbz View Post
I just question wether the Bavsound stuff is worth the price, I understand they are direct fit, but I really care about how they sound, wondering if the quality is compared to something like Focals, or JL.

As for the sound deadening, I'm going to do the 25% rule on the trunk and possibly the rear quarter panels aswell, and attempt to do the full door, I have an aftermarket Fabspeed Muffler Delete (LOUD), so definitely want to try and sound proof the majority of the car.
To me, the Bavsound speakers sound a LOT better than the OEM base, non H-K system. Well worth it for the sound improvement, and the plug and play convenience. I also did a JL Audio 6 channel amp, ASD bypass, and disconnected the front center speaker, which all help as well. I've not heard the Focals or JL, so I wouldn't know how to compare them. To me, between the tire / road noise, wind noise, exhaust, etc., unless I turn the audio volume way up, I'm hearing more car noise than audio. Then again, I often find myself turning down the audio so I can better hear the engine and exhaust.

Good luck with your project and let us know the results.
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      01-25-2018, 02:36 PM   #682
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryem3 View Post
They are not related. The engine sound does not only come from the center speaker.
This is correct.

I might just add that Carly for BMW(app for ios/android), lacking alot of functionality for F22 actually can turn off the ASD and this helps alot in the audio department so you can keep the audio from the center.

I think the adapter is like 30$ and the app somewhere there too.

Ps. not marketing Carly as I am probably their worst customer and the app can be used for other functions too.
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