[tencazzo]

Great...my Tuner didn't disconnect it and most probably this was the reason why ECU was damaged.

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by simoneves

Surely common sense... and GSR agree...

Awesome! What a piece of cake

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by ROBNYC

+1
RaceChip Ultimate (18k miles myself on it), the majority of F15 35i/35d/50i guys I know also run MPPK+Racechip.

Yep RC is adjustable to more settings than its counterpart and comes in Aluminum housing.


What are you waiting for

Bouncing back after the holidays, my 3 week European trip and my birthday

[FSociety]

Originally Posted by SoCalDave

Bouncing back after the holidays, my 3 week European trip and my birthday

You guys should all group up and get into a Dynojet day , it'll be cheaper than going alone and get to meet more Tuned guys in your area especially those with ECU flash and compare with cars with piggyback tune.

Thats what I'm planning to do here in the next few weeks

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by Luminous

Forget about Dinan, absolute waste of money. They add very little power, definitely nowhere near what they advertise, overpriced, poor customer service and even the warranty is questionable. Also the Dinan piggybacks have horrible resale value unlike the other tunes.

It's misleading to criticize Dinan for "poor customer service" when that depends almost entirely on whom you choose to install the product. I have a Dinan S1 tune on my 228i and the Dinan Shockware suspension modification. Both were expertly installed by a very highly-rated Dinan-licensed tuner shop and the service I experienced from both that shop and Dinan itself has been excellent.

There will always be people who want more power for less money but Dinan represents a very good balance between performance enhancement and risk, as mitigated by the warranty. I am particularly impressed by the way the Dinan S1 reset turbo boost values, dialing out all remnants of lag. It gives the 228i all the power and torque that 99% of drivers would ever need, or use, in street driving without messing with its sophisticated good manners when driven sedately. I want my 228i to be a Jeckyll and Hyde sports coupe, not a Hyde and Hyde, or I would have bought a car that was cheaper, cruder and louder. With this tune the car never seems to run out of torque and will pull past just about anything, doing just about any speed, on a freeway, with a fierce thrust that I never thought I'd experience in a turbo four.

OP, good luck and don't forget to be skeptical of the haters whose unbalanced judgements on certain products disguise themselves as "advice".

[simoneves]

The engineer in me says that an ECU tune (if implemented properly) has to be better than a piggy-back, since it (presumably) has access to all the sensor inputs and other data which the piggy-backs (other than perhaps the full-on JB4) do not. Also, the idea of remapping the (presumably analog) signals from 2 or 3 sensors to make them "lie" to the stock ECU seems dangerous. That said, there are obviously many well-thought-of piggy-back systems, including the BMW-(at least)-tolerated Dinan one, so I guess it can't be that bad.

I have been talking to Matt from GSR, and he has been extremely helpful, but I am still concerned about having a permanent tune, even one that is physically invisible, when it comes to dealer visits and prospective warranty work.

I am also unclear on exactly how the car logs out-of-stock performance values (boost, in particular, of course) and how likely the dealer is to notice those in normal servicing, even if there is no apparent problem. This side of things surely applies to both ECU and piggy-back tunes, unless they include a mechanism to either avoid registering the abnormal values in the first place, or one for clearing the records. Surely it's not as simple as an OBD2 code, for which I already have a $20 plug-in reader/clearer, but maybe it is?

I know I will be extremely unlucky to end up with a failure from "just" a Stage 1 tune, given the high safety factors in the stock engine, but I'm having a hard time balancing fear and desire here. Or, more accurately, fear vs. desire vs. expense (if I went for Dinan).

Like I said in my original post, I'm just verbalizing, not really looking for answers. I can't afford any of them this month anyway...

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by simoneves

The engineer in me says that an ECU tune (if implemented properly) has to be better than a piggy-back, since it (presumably) has access to all the sensor inputs and other data which the piggy-backs (other than perhaps the full-on JB4) do not. Also, the idea of remapping the (presumably analog) signals from 2 or 3 sensors to make them "lie" to the stock ECU seems dangerous. That said, there are obviously many well-thought-of piggy-back systems, including the BMW-(at least)-tolerated Dinan one, so I guess it can't be that bad.

I have been talking to Matt from GSR, and he has been extremely helpful, but I am still concerned about having a permanent tune, even one that is physically invisible, when it comes to dealer visits and prospective warranty work.

I am also unclear on exactly how the car logs out-of-stock performance values (boost, in particular, of course) and how likely the dealer is to notice those in normal servicing, even if there is no apparent problem. This side of things surely applies to both ECU and piggy-back tunes, unless they include a mechanism to either avoid registering the abnormal values in the first place, or one for clearing the records. Surely it's not as simple as an OBD2 code, for which I already have a $20 plug-in reader/clearer, but maybe it is?

I know I will be extremely unlucky to end up with a failure from "just" a Stage 1 tune, given the high safety factors in the stock engine, but I'm having a hard time balancing fear and desire here. Or, more accurately, fear vs. desire vs. expense (if I went for Dinan).

Like I said in my original post, I'm just verbalizing, not really looking for answers. I can't afford any of them this month anyway...

I hear you. Much of this is going to be easier when a warranty coverage issue isn't in play.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by SoCalDave

I hear you. Much of this is going to be easier when a warranty coverage issue isn't in play.

Very true, this. By far the biggest factor in my decision is that it's a brand-new car with a four-year warranty that I do not want -- and cannot afford -- to jeopardise.

[simoneves]

Originally Posted by BarryJI

Very true, this. By far the biggest factor in my decision is that it's a brand-new car with a four-year warranty that I do not want -- and cannot afford -- to jeopardise.

Well, technically you already did, as it's my understanding that BMW hasn't officially covered Dinan mods for a few years now, and instead you just have the safety-net of Dinan's separate insurance policy to kick in for repairs if BMW refuse, which they surely might be just as likely to. How long will Dinan continue to offer that insurance, I wonder, given the the company has been sold and the eponymous founder is gone. I also wonder what the cost would be to take out one's own private insurance policy to cover say $20K for a new engine, amortized over the few years that you'll have that car, compared with the ~$1000 extra that you spent on the Dinan over, say, the arguably equivalent Racechip. Not saying you were wrong, but it's surely a valid question... and one to which I certainly don't have the answer either.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by simoneves

Well, technically you already did, as it's my understanding that BMW hasn't officially covered Dinan mods for a few years now, and instead you just have the safety-net of Dinan's separate insurance policy to kick in for repairs if BMW refuse, which they surely might be just as likely to. How long will Dinan continue to offer that insurance, I wonder, given the the company has been sold and the eponymous founder is gone. I also wonder what the cost would be to take out one's own private insurance policy to cover say $20K for a new engine, amortized over the few years that you'll have that car, compared with the ~$1000 extra that you spent on the Dinan over, say, the arguably equivalent Racechip. Not saying you were wrong, but it's surely a valid question... and one to which I certainly don't have the answer either.

Well, a lot depends on how you drive the car. My 228i is my DD and it's fully loaded so tracking it makes absolutely no sense at all. I wanted a tune that would greatly sharpen the car's performance on the street and dial out the kind of lag and softness that manufacturers, even BMW, build into their cars to protect their warranties from the effects of over-driving and to preserve the value of their enormous fleet of leased automobiles. If I were taking the car to the track or racing it, of course I would install the most aggressive tune available but here's the trade-off for me and probably a lot of owners of new, well-optioned DD BMWs who want to tune them: I do not thrash the car. I drive it fast and spiritedly, which pisses my wife off while delighting my teenage son, but I do not over-stress the engine, the brakes or the tires. This means that when I take it into the dealership for service, there are never any red flags or tell-tale signs that might cause a service manager to say "hey, this thing has been tuned and flogged, so let Dinan pay the bill for premature wear, not BMW". I do not spend a whole lot of time on the red line but I like driving a fast car whose real character has been brought out by a good, responsible tune. And I like my tuner shop so much -- it's one of the most highly rated on the West Coast of the USA -- that I get them to do 2000-mile oil changes and all other preventative maintenance that is not covered by the BMW warranty.

So, what I am saying is that unless you intend to race the car or drive it consistently at its limits, you do not have to look at a tune as an inevitable path to stressing the engine prematurely. A warranteed tune, installed and backed up by a great indy tuner shop, along with scheduled services under warranty by BMW that do not raise red flags, or eyebrows when they see the familiar Dinan harness, is a way to enjoy all the enhanced street performance you are likely to be able to use without the risk of what I think you are assuming is the unavoidable consequence of a tuned engine. I might have to think differently about this if Dinan ever offers a Stage 2 tune for the 228i as it does for the M235i, as that is likely to push the blown four much closer to its limits than the Stage 1 I have at present.

[simoneves]

Oh, I'm in the same boat. A new car that I could by no means easily afford, my DD, no intentions of tracking, rarely push it really hard, just want a bit more shove when I do, mainly because I hope that will squash the few remaining pangs of regret I have about not stretching to an M235i

This thread, as I'm sure have many before it, has raised two separate questions, namely (a) piggy-back vs. ECU tune, and (b) whether Dinan is worth the extra money. You have given your answer to (b) and I respect it. I am still on the fence on that one, which comes down to risk vs. cost and, to a lesser extent, the allegations that the Dinan piggy-back "isn't as good" as some of the other ones.

But neither of us are piston-heads after the last couple of percent of performance. You're happy with what you chose, and that's great.

[BarryJI]

I understand that hands-on tuner gurus prefer products that are both cheaper and less "conservative", which is always the term of dismissal used about Dinan tunes. And, yes, piggybacks are looked down on. Just bear in mind what a lot of people say about ECU flashes -- and I have no opinion one way or the other about this -- which is that no tuner can really claim to have cracked BMW's ECU code, at least not thoroughly. That is why I would be a little cautious about flashing it.

I had a little M235 envy, too, but I believe I tuned it out quite successfully. You can make your 228i really fly.

[SteveInfante]

As my car is stock performance wise I feel like the driver mod is the most important of them all. Having the know how to push your car to 80%, which is higher than most people seem to feel comfortable, and out driving someone is much more rewarding to me than having my car feel faster. Eventually I will upgrade some things but for now this thing is a riot.

[BarryJI]

Originally Posted by SteveInfante

As my car is stock performance wise I feel like the driver mod is the most important of them all. Having the know how to push your car to 80%, which is higher than most people seem to feel comfortable, and out driving someone is much more rewarding to me than having my car feel faster. Eventually I will upgrade some things but for now this thing is a riot.

+1

[simoneves]

Yeah, I keep trying to tell myself that, but it's not working... :\

[tencazzo]

Is someone worrying about the fact that ECU is going to be opened by tune so there are possible physical trails for BMW showing that some manipulation have been done?

[Tpeterson]

That's a good thought. I would hope they that they put it back together neatly! Another reason to wait until the car is out of warranty to make major mods.

[simoneves]

Originally Posted by tencazzo

Is someone worrying about the fact that ECU is going to be opened by tune so there are possible physical trails for BMW showing that some manipulation have been done?

Did you mean "someone" (as in me!) or "anyone"?

This part doesn't really worry me.

The ECU has to be opened, but the GSR guys assured me that they do this in a completely non-destructive manner and that you can't tell from the outside that it's been done. I would assume that if the dealer *did* open it up, they'd see the boot pin modification, which would be a give-away that it's been re-flashed, but they said that normal dealer scanning will not detect the modification as (unlike some early flash tunes) they recompute the checksum on the flash contents which is all that the scan (currently) tests. Whether there are more specific tests that the dealer could do which *would* detect the changed contents, even if the checksum is correct, I cannot say, and neither have they.

[simoneves]

Damn it, I'm still on the fence.

The engineer in me wants to go for the intuitively best solution which is the flash tune.

The pessimist in me doesn't like the idea of not being able to completely return the car to stock for dealer visits, or (at least not easily) if in a few years I decide to sell it or pass it on to another family member with (ahem) less self-control.

What's more likely... that the dealer would somehow spot a flash tune, or that I would have an accident bad enough that I wouldn't have a chance to remove a piggy-back before the car was inspected.

I am *definitely* over-thinking this.

[CalCarNut]

I have yet to see anyone with a flashed PCM get red-flagged other than one car that had a major engine catastrophe unrelated.....

[Googz]

Anyone have an afe scorcher? There are a few cheap used ones on ebay.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Googz

Anyone have an afe scorcher? There are a few cheap used ones on ebay.

It used to be very popular couple years ago, not so much now
It is basically identical to BMS stage 1 and RC

If you just want a tune for noticeable power increase without a complicated install just get the BMS stage 1