[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by Charlie@McKennaBMWService

Only time will tell, I am not going to list the tunes so far that I've seen detected simply because I do not want to create conflicts of interest, but will voice my opinion when need be. Wanting cake and the ability to eat it too is a great analogy in this particular case! You're more than welcome to come visit my service department, believe me when I say that I'm an enthusiast at heart as well and can list a ton of vouches on my behalf, also I do what I can to help out the community.

I would love to know the list though

[Charlie@McKennaBMWService]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Yeah I hear you. That makes sense. I guess I was just trying to see what people find safe/low risk? and whats going to attribute more to end up like e46m3lol. But it's safe to say, the more you add, the greater the chances for problems.

Precisely, one has the gauge the risk versus reward, you know simple things such as intakes and exhausts(catbacks or axlebacks) are minor things, but keep in mind on a grand scale that it's a combination of things that add up to what potentially happened to the OP. I believe adding different types of fuel has a lot to do with what happened as well(i.e. e85, race)...

[Charlie@McKennaBMWService]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

I would love to know the list though

Wouldn't you love to catch em all.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by Charlie@McKennaBMWService

Precisely, one has the gauge the risk versus reward, you know simple things such as intakes and exhausts(catbacks or axlebacks) are minor things, but keep in mind on a grand scale that it's a combination of things that add up to what potentially happened to the OP. I believe adding different types of fuel has a lot to do with what happened as well(i.e. e85, race)...

Would you say 100 octane gas is harmful? I was pretty confident it's not.. Same chemical make up, just with higher octane. Harmful to use with a tune?

[CalCarNut]

Seems like it could generate business for your shop. If you're an enthusiast and have knowledge to help the community decide which way to go, that's a plus. Having knowledge and not sharing it in this forum kind of detracts from your earlier statement of being a 'mod' friendly shop Charlie.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by 2msport

I second that! Get nick in there.

BTW Dave, I had a 428 GC sport line loaner the other day. I was VERY impressed. I thought it would handle like the 3 but it doesn't. It's better. More planted and firm and the interior has a more sporty feel. And the trunk! It's basically a hatch. Best looking hatch to date Ok thats all, I don't want to hijack this tread.

Yep..its a hatchback disguised as a 4-door sedan. Clever. Love my car..although today wife.com hijacked it to take it to work today lol. The visual clues between the 3 and the 4 are far enough apart that I really like the 4 . Now back to the topic at hand........

[Charlie@McKennaBMWService]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Would you say 100 octane gas is harmful? I was pretty confident it's not.. Same chemical make up, just with higher octane. Harmful to use with a tune?

Well keep in mind going back to the point where these engines were not designed to tolerate such high levels of octane.

[CalCarNut]

Originally Posted by Charlie@McKennaBMWService

Well keep in mind going back to the point where these engines were not designed to tolerate such high levels of octane.

Seems to me that the 100 won't hurt anything. BMW states that 91 is the recommended octane level, below wouldn't be optimal. A higher octane is just less likely to cause engine knock which zaps out timing advance and cuts power. What is the highest octane available in the U.S./Canada and Europe? 95? I tend to think that 100 isn't far enough over the max available to cause any harm and just allows the engines timing to advance to it's max and make power. I wouldn't run straight 'Racing' gas that's leaded etc however...as I'm sure there are parameters..but 100 unleaded shouldn't be one of them...

That being said...I don't think 100 octane is necessarily unless you are going the upgraded turbo etc route

[Silvermike]

Originally Posted by Charlie@McKennaBMWService

Wouldn't you love to catch em all.

i wouldnt doubt that at all.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by SoCalDave

Seems to me that the 100 won't hurt anything. BMW states that 91 is the recommended octane level, below wouldn't be optimal. A higher octane is just less likely to cause engine knock which zaps out timing advance and cuts power. What is the highest octane available in the U.S./Canada and Europe? 95? I tend to think that 100 isn't far enough over the max available to cause any harm and just allows the engines timing to advance to it's max and make power. I wouldn't run straight 'Racing' gas that's leaded etc however...as I'm sure there are parameters..but 100 unleaded shouldn't be one of them...

That being said...I don't think 100 octane is necessarily unless you are going the upgraded turbo etc route

I agree with that train of thought.

I'm wondering however if you use the tune to take advantage of the 100 octane, and you get the extra power. Where is that extra power coming from? Increased boost? (potentially harmful) or Just better burn in the cylinders. (not harmful?) Or does it not matter and the extra power generated can be considered too much for the N20?

[CalCarNut]

good question. One for Nick @ GSR maybe?

[e46m3lol]

Originally Posted by 2msport

I agree with that train of thought.

I'm wondering however if you use the tune to take advantage of the 100 octane, and you get the extra power. Where is that extra power coming from? Increased boost? (potentially harmful) or Just better burn in the cylinders. (not harmful?) Or does it not matter and the extra power generated can be considered too much for the N20?

According to the JB4 maps, the extra power is coming from increased boost levels. I would only run map 7 when I was running 100+ octane race fuel which prior to this incident it was almost 3 weeks ago. I was running 91 octane map 1 when the motor blew.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by e46m3lol

According to the JB4 maps, the extra power is coming from increased boost levels. I would only run map 7 when I was running 100+ octane race fuel which prior to this incident it was almost 3 weeks ago. I was running 91 octane map 1 when the motor blew.

what about 100 with jb stage 1?

[ocN55]

Originally Posted by 2msport

what about 100 with jb stage 1?

You shouldn't be running 100 octane with the stage 1 because you won't see any gains. I don't think the tune can adjust for the fuel.

On the topic of the the stage 1, does it do the same thing as the stage 2 jb4 in tricking the ECU that it is running stock boost?

[2msport]

Originally Posted by ocN55

You shouldn't be running 100 octane with the stage 1 because you won't see any gains. I don't think the tune can adjust for the fuel.

On the topic of the the stage 1, does it do the same thing as the stage 2 jb4 in tricking the ECU that it is running stock boost?

Then why do they show a stage 1 dyno with race gas? The results show an increase in the hp and torque.

Wondering that myself.

[alz0rz]

Are people seriously thinking that if you put 100 octane into an otherwise stock car, you are going to blow your motor? LOL.

Higher octane just diminishes the chances of detonation with a higher compression motor, which is very beneficial when you are pushing more air and boost and consequently asking to generate more power. A stock ECU for a street driven car will be able to 'extract' more power correspondingly, to a point.

[2msport]

Originally Posted by alz0rz

Are people seriously thinking that if you put 100 octane into an otherwise stock car, you are going to blow your motor? LOL.

Higher octane just diminishes the chances of detonation with a higher compression motor, which is very beneficial when you are pushing more air and boost and consequently asking to generate more power. A stock ECU for a street driven car will be able to 'extract' more power correspondingly, to a point.

Agreed but No we are not wondering that. Charlie from BMW may have said that. Or he was referring to using it with a tune.

There's a few questions circulating but we are wondering if 100 octane is safe with stage 1 or jb4.

[Silvermike]

Originally Posted by 2msport

Agreed but No we are not wondering that. Charlie from BMW may have said that. Or he was referring to using it with a tune.

There's a few questions circulating but we are wondering if 100 octane is safe with stage 1 or jb4.

if using a stage 1, or jb4 map 1, pump vs 100 oct is the question.

then the 100oct is safer than the pump fuel.

what is dangerous is using map 6, or any higher boost maps. the danger here is not caused by the 100oct, its caused by the added clyinder pressures due to the high boost.

[MG 228i]

Higher octane allows you to make more power.
It does not give you more power by itself.

Assuming the tunes are static and the ECU does not produce more power given a higher octane, all the higher octane will do is increase your detonation threshold.

Did the OP run e85? Or was it just mixed with regular fuel?
If so, adding e85 without a proper tune will make you run lean.
The characteristics of e85 are so forgiving when tuning on it and the car just keeps making power the more you push it, but results can be catastrophic once you switch back to regular gas using an e85 tune.

[Silvermike]

Originally Posted by MG 228i

Higher octane allows you to make more power.
It does not give you more power by itself.

Assuming the tunes are static and the ECU does not produce more power given a higher octane, all the higher octane will do is increase your detonation threshold.

Did the OP run e85? Or was it just mixed with regular fuel?
If so, adding e85 without a proper tune will make you run lean.
The characteristics of e85 are so forgiving when tuning on it and the car just keeps making power the more you push it, but results can be catastrophic once you switch back to regular gas using an e85 tune.

Terry always recommended using no more than a 30% of e85 mixed with fuel to avoid leaning out issues. Using the Flex fuel connectors with the JB4 allowed the unit to bump up the fuel volume delivered to compensate for the blended e85.

crude, yes. effective, maybe. never tried it.

[e46m3lol]

I rarely ran e85 as the car ran horribly at wide open throttle on any amount of e85. The electronic wastegate N20 engines are notorious for disliking e85 fuel mixtures plus it was a pain creating a 70/30 mixture of pump gas and e85 at the gas station.

[bou707]

How did the car feel when it happened? did it go into limp mode?
Also, did your car feel any different the few days before it happened?

Best of luck on your next steps