[ifobd]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/

Best single mod I've done and sharpened/tightened the steering response and handling by inducing +1 degree of negative camber for alignment spec. Nothing else to do beyond this kit....my dealer did the install.

Is anyone making lcas for xdrive yet?

[RotorOver]

Easiest solution, buy a Cayman.

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by ifobd

Is anyone making lcas for xdrive yet?

K-Mac has bushings for the LCA/wishbone and tension strut arms that allow you to adjust camber/caster on xDrive cars. I have both installed on my vehicle right now (just installed the caster bushings this past weekend). Here's the thread I started on the camber bushing (also can be used in RWD models).

The camber bushing doesn't significantly improve steering feel, but the caster bushing significantly adds to the feel and responsiveness. You can feel the road more through the wheel and it also feels like you're more connected with the car. The latency between turning the wheel and the car responding also feels reduced. The downside is that NVH is also increased due to the more solid bushing vs the rubber and fluid-filled OE bushing. The noise increase is mostly low frequency, no clunking or ticking noises.

Increasing the negative camber on xDrive cars also increases the caster. When I maxed out my camber with the K-Mac bushings, my caster went to 8.55deg and 7.95deg. at 8.55deg I was just about rubbing at full steering lock. After I installed the tension strut caster bushings I set both sides to 8deg.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by albertw

That's an excellent description!

I can see how this could be a large effect at substantial steering deflections. Thus it could be a large part of the steering feedback as the traction limit is approached. That, to me, is by far the most important issue regarding steering feel.

However, this thread is about steering feel just off-centre. I have trouble seeing an appreciable change in scrub radius for the kind of inadvertent deflection the OP says he can't detect through the wheel- a degree or two while looking down at the screen. I'm open to more education!

I think the OP has a problem with his steering rack or damaged suspension, as I think he alluded to earlier in the thread. EDIT - i was thinking of the other thread about the steering not self centring, definitely a problem with the rack or suspension geometry there..

The scrub radius actually has a complex effect on steering feel, as the tyre loading changes the effective centre of the contact patch moves, so the dynamic scrub radius changes too. With a modern car the static scrub radius is often about 20mm negative (SAI hits the ground outside the contact patch centre) to give good stability with variable friction under each front tyre. Zero static scrub radius should be avoided, as the dynamic scrub radius tends to switch between positive and negative, contributing to vague steering feel. When wheel offset is changed there is a risk that scrub radius can be changed in an unexpected way.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by RotorOver

Easiest solution, buy a Cayman.

My son had one and both he and I found it a real PITA to shoehorn in and climb out of that bodystyle. Once in, yes, it's excellent in so many ways, but we're tall and ingress/egress was more of a problem than he thought it would be when he first got it. It left after about a year and when he would offer to let me drive it, after the first few times, the thrill wasn't worth the contortions. 2 Series wins this one hands-down!

[tripitz]

Originally Posted by dradernh

I wonder if you're going to be able to change the steering feel to any appreciable extent.

I too have owned an E36 M3 race car, one that had a no-expense-spared professional build. The E36 was extremely responsive to throttle and steering inputs - feedback was precise and instantaneous. Not wanting an M2, I spent $14K on a basic street/track car build for the M240i (https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show....php?t=1532418). Even with that work done, the M240i (which I like a lot and intend to keep for many years), is dull in comparison to the E36 when driven on the track. The 725# weight difference made that a given.

The M240i's steering feel continues to be what it was pre-build, which is what I expected. I accept it and have had to be satisfied with the fact that it's both predictable and goes where I point it. I haven't found it to be an issue on the track; instead, it's just...different.

This is really helpful as it sounds like you really took it pretty far down the path of doing what can be done. While I was not expecting it to match my E36, I was hoping to improve upon it.

I will have BMW look at it as I am due for the recall fix on the car and hopefully that is the issue.

I know people say electric steering is vague in general and good enough. The rack on my Mercedes is also electric and it is 10000000x better than what the 2 provides. I also never hear anyone complain about the M2 setup so that is also why I asked what can be done to become more like the M2 without buying one.

Thanks again all!

[tripitz]

I already had and tracked a Cayman. I have a little girl that likes cars and she is not quite ready to sit in the front seat. I traded that in for a 911, which was my dream car. In one year I put 25k miles on it and 22 track days. Sadly, I had a ton of home repairs due and the smart financial decision was to dump the car.

Now of course 911s are even more expensive than ever and I just cannot justify spending that much money on a car right now. My race car already sucks up some serious money...

[ifobd]

Originally Posted by FaRKle!

K-Mac has bushings for the LCA/wishbone and tension strut arms that allow you to adjust camber/caster on xDrive cars. I have both installed on my vehicle right now (just installed the caster bushings this past weekend). Here's the thread I started on the camber bushing (also can be used in RWD models).

The camber bushing doesn't significantly improve steering feel, but the caster bushing significantly adds to the feel and responsiveness. You can feel the road more through the wheel and it also feels like you're more connected with the car. The latency between turning the wheel and the car responding also feels reduced. The downside is that NVH is also increased due to the more solid bushing vs the rubber and fluid-filled OE bushing. The noise increase is mostly low frequency, no clunking or ticking noises.

Increasing the negative camber on xDrive cars also increases the caster. When I maxed out my camber with the K-Mac bushings, my caster went to 8.55deg and 7.95deg. at 8.55deg I was just about rubbing at full steering lock. After I installed the tension strut caster bushings I set both sides to 8deg.

Thanks for pointing me at your kmac thread. This seems to be exactly what I'm looking for! A few questions,

how much NVH would you say you get, ballpark relative to camber plates 20%? 50%?

How's the durability so far?

Where did you purchase the bushings?

[FaRKle!]

Originally Posted by ifobd

Thanks for pointing me at your kmac thread. This seems to be exactly what I'm looking for! A few questions,

how much NVH would you say you get, ballpark relative to camber plates 20%? 50%?

How's the durability so far?

Where did you purchase the bushings?

Unfortunately I can't compare to camber plates as I've never had them. I hear camber plates create more "clunking" and "knocking" while these create more low frequency "booming" (think of the noise you get when you go over freeway expansion joints, but louder).

I've only had them on a week so I can't say too much about their durability, but the bushings have a pretty solid looking design. I'm not worried about their longevity. I'll be taking them on some dirt/gravel BLM roads this weekend.

I purchased these direct from Kevin at K-Mac as I've been beta testing/giving feedback on the design and this is the 3rd iteration. I'd wait a bit to see if he iterates on my latest feedback. As they stand now they're great for a track car, but might be a bit too rigid for a street car.

[dooms101]

Reviving a dead thread but wanted to comment on all the great wisdom here. I just picked up a used M235i that suffers from some on-center steering deadness which seems to be a common problem with these cars. I've read through countless threads related to the issue and seems like a combination of 2 problems (at least for my specific car):
1. The on-center vagueness is a problem from the factory due to the mushy tension strut bushings and lack of camber from the factory. Sounds like upgrading to the Turner motorsports monoball fixes that along with the M2/M4 LCA's for a bit more negative camber without having to install camber plates.
2. This problem only gets worse with age as bushings wear but might also be from the steering rack's "thrust" thing (I guess it's like a preloader for the rack) that can be upgraded with: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...ust-piece-afs/

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by dooms101

2. This problem only gets worse with age as bushings wear but might also be from the steering rack's "thrust" thing (I guess it's like a preloader for the rack) that can be upgraded with: https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...ust-piece-afs/

This link to the part comes with a description: https://www.bimmerworld.com/Repair-K...8-F25-F26.html.

[dooms101]

Originally Posted by dradernh

This link to the part comes with a description: https://www.bimmerworld.com/Repair-K...8-F25-F26.html.

Not the most descriptive description... I’ve read a few threads (mostly on the F30 forums) that claim this repair kit or simply tightening the cap helped tighten the steering. Thankfully I don’t have the clunk or clicking problem but if I understand correctly this part preloads the pinion gear against the rack and can take out the initial play of the steering. I already have the kit and special tool on order so I can put the theory to the test.

[leftoverture]

Interesting thread. Thanks for reviving it as it predates my ownership. My biggest complaint about our 2016 228i is the horrible steering feel. It is horribly over-boosted and vague. Like a 1975 Cadillac. So if I understand all I've read here, the real issue is that it has an electric steering rack. Going back to the OP... when I switched from summer rubber to winter, it is so over-boosted I could hardly feel the difference in normal driving.

[hobo0933]

I had the same problem with my 230i, and was really helped by this thread. I installed the https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/, but went with original M2 parts. These really helped. But the real game changer was when I swapped the original EDC dampening for a Bilstein B16/PSS10 kit (without EDC). This really changed the car into a beast, the steering is now fantastic and responsive, and the centering is great. I have the Variable Sport Steering rack on mine, by the way, I think the problem is bigger with this rack. (I also have a 118i with the normal steering rack, and the steering is much better than my 230i was originally)

[Le frog]

Since it is electric, is there any possibility to upgrade the software?

[TheMirror]

Originally Posted by hobo0933

I had the same problem with my 230i, and was really helped by this thread. I installed the https://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-5...m-upgrade-kit/, but went with original M2 parts. These really helped. But the real game changer was when I swapped the original EDC dampening for a Bilstein B16/PSS10 kit (without EDC). This really changed the car into a beast, the steering is now fantastic and responsive, and the centering is great. I have the Variable Sport Steering rack on mine, by the way, I think the problem is bigger with this rack. (I also have a 118i with the normal steering rack, and the steering is much better than my 230i was originally)

Curious about the B16/PSS10 setup and ride quality. How does it compare to the three EDC modes, Comfort-Normal-Sport? Knowing that the Bilstein kit is adjustable, what did you find were the best settings front and rear?

[dooms101]

Originally Posted by TheMirror

Curious about the B16/PSS10 setup and ride quality. How does it compare to the three EDC modes, Comfort-Normal-Sport? Knowing that the Bilstein kit is adjustable, what did you find were the best settings front and rear?

I’m also curious about these. Since I’ve put a few more miles on the car I’ve noticed how underwhelming the stock damping is in comfort or sport mode, there’s a lot more bounce and roll than I would expect from a sports car. I don’t see a non-EDC version of the Bilstein B16 for the F22. The EDC version is only $2500 which is much cheaper than the KW ClubSport with EDC.

I finally got my order of the M3/M4 LCAs and the Turner monoball TAs along with the thrust repair kit. I’m hoping this trio is enough to liven up the front end without needing to go coilovers.