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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics B58 (M240i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Stock vs Bms intake

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      02-21-2021, 12:54 PM   #1
kuzdu
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Stock vs Bms intake

So i have the bms intake and i reverted back to stock for now i felt like the car lost low end power and throttle. It may be Because the ecu adjusting the air flow, i also have the bms tube after the intake. Anyone had an experience like this ?
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      02-22-2021, 03:59 AM   #2
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Generally speaking, most modern intake systems in performance cars are pretty well optimized from the factory. The OEMs have way more time and computational power at their disposal to get the best balance of cost, volumetric flow across the rev range, temps across a range of use durations, sound, longevity, etc.

Aftermarket intakes tend to trade low-end power/torque and filtration efficiency for slight power/torque gains at the top of the rpm range, or can make a few hero pulls on a dyno with great gains before heat soaking and performing worse in the real world, or cost a ton of money for relatively minor gains, or only work well in tandem with other specific tuning changes.

I don't have the data to back it up...but you're probably right and should trust your gut. The stock intake is fine, and the aftermarket intakes will offer some tradeoffs, but go ahead and do it you like the look or the noise, or if the specific performance claims the aftermarket manufacturer is advertising appeal to you.
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      02-22-2021, 08:51 AM   #3
KennyFSU
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My car didn't like the BMS intake either; always had rough cold starts and my IATs were slightly higher. Went back to stock airbox and K&N drop in and the car has been happy since.
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      02-22-2021, 09:08 AM   #4
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Hey Everyone thanks, yup i reverted back to stock with the K&N but kept the BMS silicone pipe going down to the turbo. Car feels 100 time better, the BMS intake was great for the turbo noise and blow off but was getting throttle delay, low end torque was on and off. The stock box is actually a good design and the box is cool to touch after driving around. I will the the air scoop and install it just to get some extra air routed into the box.
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      02-23-2021, 11:02 AM   #5
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That's surprising to hear, the B58 is one of the rare engines which benefits from an open intake.

Per BMS, their intake adds 10 whp on the B58, I also worked with VM on their B58 build and they got the same exact results (+ 10 whp)

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      02-23-2021, 11:52 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
That's surprising to hear, the B58 is one of the rare engines which benefits from an open intake.

Per BMS, their intake adds 10 whp on the B58, I also worked with VM on their B58 build and they got the same exact results (+ 10 whp)

Exactly, don't know if it's because im not tuned but i will hold onto it until i get the JB4 and try again. i think those dyno results are with the maps on the jb4. the Stock box restored all of the low end toque and throttle response, i wonder if the 21 ECU are tuned different with the maf sensor.
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      02-23-2021, 12:23 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzdu View Post
Exactly, don't know if it's because im not tuned but i will hold onto it until i get the JB4 and try again. i think those dyno results are with the maps on the jb4. the Stock box restored all of the low end toque and throttle response, i wonder if the 21 ECU are tuned different with the maf sensor.
the dyno result is on map 4, at the time that used to be the stock map
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      02-23-2021, 01:17 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzdu View Post
Exactly, don't know if it's because im not tuned but i will hold onto it until i get the JB4 and try again. i think those dyno results are with the maps on the jb4. the Stock box restored all of the low end toque and throttle response, i wonder if the 21 ECU are tuned different with the maf sensor.
the dyno result is on map 4, at the time that used to be the stock map
I guess i don't have any luck LOL. I'm def putting it back on and try it once the jb4 is in.
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      02-23-2021, 05:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuzdu View Post
I guess i don't have any luck LOL. I'm def putting it back on and try it once the jb4 is in.
LOL sorry
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      02-24-2021, 01:18 AM   #10
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The HAI (hot air intake) mod works, and doesn't...

Bottom line though is that for such small change(s), you perceived change is most likely placebo induced. You aren't really going to "feel" a 10hp difference. You could get that effect from just changing gas supplier (E content).

As for the ECU adjust... I had a conversation with a well established BMW guru, modder, racer at my dealership. We discussed some mods and programming changes, etc. as I've tuned some of my older cars. He assured me, that will most of the physical mods, these ecu's will adjust. Like for the added air with an open cone AND downpipe, or added midpipe / exhaust. This surprised me honestly... My knowledge is that ecu's don't, as they're expecting a certain VE from stock parts. Changes to Air, Fuel, or Spark requires an accommodation in those others to keep the balance and best performance. But hey... I'm old school. Again, you aren't going to feel 10hp difference... Maybe just maybe of you had 2 identical cars sitting side by side and drove one, immediately got out and in the other and drove right away... You might, and that's a huge maybe!

The Burger open cone really is just that, but don't buy into the Manufacturer spends a lot of $ designing the BEST for every single component... It's not true. Air intake otherwise would ALL be from scoups on the front of the hood and not underneath it from a small pickup tube wedged into the side of the heat exchanger/radiator... Sorry! So yeah, you might get a different result from another brand. That's the thing with modding, it's a lot of trial and error to get what YOU want. Sell the one you have, take a 50% hit, it's ok, and buy another lol

Good luck!
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      02-24-2021, 10:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com View Post
That's surprising to hear, the B58 is one of the rare engines which benefits from an open intake.

Per BMS, their intake adds 10 whp on the B58, I also worked with VM on their B58 build and they got the same exact results (+ 10 whp)

[IMG]https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/08...g?v=1547766653[/IMG]
You can run the exact same set up for 10 times and you will get 10 different numbers and you just post the higher one versus the lower one and say your design achieved that. All aftermarket companies do this.
Most aftermarket intake utilizes black metal which is a bad idea because it attracts heat.
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      02-25-2021, 12:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lixiang7349 View Post
You can run the exact same set up for 10 times and you will get 10 different numbers and you just post the higher one versus the lower one and say your design achieve that. All aftermarket companies do this.
Most aftermarket intake utilizes black metal which is a bad idea because it soaks up heat.
The VM dyno was done by a third party, they could not care less whether the intake makes power or not.

The owner called me surprised at the numbers and ran the test numerous times back to back getting the same result every time.
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      Yesterday, 11:01 AM   #13
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Few things, gonna go a little backwards but should be able to follow.

Black intakes - factory intake is black. The hood is not clear so sunlight does not hit it therefore it does not exactly absorb heat, misconception there. Even if it did, it would be minimal unless it sat in direct sunlight without moving.

ECU adjustments - the guru cooolone2 mentioned is correct, especially when it comes to intakes. However, you have to give the car some time to adjust to these changes as the values are learned over time, look into short term vs long term fuel trims if you're inclined to learn more about it. The short of it is, there are 1000's of variables and the smart engineers and programmers at BMW know that, so they know that there will be some variation to the values that the ECU sees and it is equipped to handle that.

As previously mentioned, you won't necessarily feel the ~10hp difference. What you might feel is the slight loss of torque as shown by the dyno graph but even that would most likely be a placebo effect. The major difference is before 3k RPMs, after that it's pretty close.

However, this comes back to those 1000's of variables so your best bet would be to dyno your car on the stock intake, put the aftermarket on, drive it around for a bit, making sure to let the engine learn the entire rpm band, and get back on the dyno with as close to the same conditions as the first time...so good luck lol

I may include a TL;DR summary once I get another coffee lol
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      Yesterday, 12:10 PM   #14
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so far the car is running great back with the stock box, kn filter and the burger silicone sleeve after the maf sensor. i ordered the JB4 once i get it will put back on this bmw intake and see the outcome.
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      Yesterday, 04:54 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KrispyM240 View Post
...your best bet would be to dyno your car on the stock intake, put the aftermarket on, drive it around for a bit, making sure to let the engine learn the entire rpm band, and get back on the dyno with as close to the same conditions as the first time...
...and be prepared for a +/-5% variation.

Along with the fact that Dinan doesn't exaggerate its results, this is the data that caused me to choose their CAI:


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