[Steakpizza]

Hey guys!

So recently I've been blessed with some extra funds and was looking to upgrade from my Stage 2 320i. I've always been a huge fan of the 2 Series but currently I'm not sure what avenue to take. I was looking at used 235/240 and the price averages about 8-10k between them. Was curious about how much different the 240i engine is compared to the 235i. I don't plan on going Stage2, but would definitely do a Stage 1 tune on it.

My budget is right around 30k. I am finding used 235s in the 25-30k price range with anywhere from 40-60k miles which seems decent. 240is I'm finding around 34k-40k with similar mileage. At this point I'd be better off just getting a used M car right? I can find some used M cars for 38-45kish. I'm maybe 2-3 months out before I make a decision but would love some input from people that have driven these cars. Also eyeing up a 435 coupe. I'm completely unsure if I should just save a bit more and bit the bullet on a bigger engine, or if the 35i engines will be fine. I don't track my car at all, but definitely love some spirited driving. Would love input, thanks!

[4Hockey4]

With $30K go 240i. The 240 folks will tell you its much better, not even close etc. Its slightly better.

I went manual and liked the 235i better for that option. (rev match in non Sport+ mode). Both tune well.

Its always an option of how much $$ you have to spend, and sounds like you have plenty for the 240i. (saves a few bucks on replacing 235i chargepipe too)

Also - I drove the 435i, and its not the same car IMO. I like smaller and nimble, the 4 is not that. Runs fine, but rear visibility and slightly bigger was a no go for me. I drove my friends 16' M4, and it runs nice, its simple feels more "bulky"

You s/b able to find a low mileage 240 for close to $30K IMO. (after deal)

Look through BMW CPO site, added warranty...and after deal could go $30K flat. This is auto AWD,...not sure what you are looking for. M2 is harsher and handles better, I'm fine with, but many think not great for DD

https://www.bmwusa.com/certified-pre...2G3C52HV641143

*also you should see more 2018's coming off 3 year lease soon, come spring and 18' might be in that price range or at least close.

[jv92red]

For someone who doesn't do any track but wants spirited driving and wants to do a stage 1 and have a real fun car then M240i fits the bill. Comfortable around town when you want and can push you back in your seat when you want. Not sure where you're looking but used pricing for a good condition 240 is around 30-35k with modest mileage cars. $35-$40k for 0-5k mileage maybe.

If you don't mind some minor updates, check out the 2017 model year 240i with the miles you want. They seem to be priced few thousand less than a comparable 2018-2019 partly of course cause they are a year older and partly because given the choice people would rather buy the 2018 or later to get the LCI version. Mine is a 2017 pre-LCI m240i and I paid 34k with 20K miles, BMW certified with warranty.

I came from a E92 M3 V8 with 419HP stock and this 240i stock has WAY more torque. Driving around town is where you'll be using torque, HP is for the track. (Especially if you need to rev to 8K+ RPM to access it like that motor)

As far as pre-LCI vs LCI differences you can find out more info by searching this forum.

[Steakpizza]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

With $30K go 240i. The 240 folks will tell you its much better, not even close etc. Its slightly better.

I went manual and liked the 235i better for that option. (rev match in non Sport+ mode). Both tune well.

Its always an option of how much $$ you have to spend, and sounds like you have plenty for the 240i. (saves a few bucks on replacing 235i chargepipe too)

Also - I drove the 435i, and its not the same car IMO. I like smaller and nimble, the 4 is not that. Runs fine, but rear visibility and slightly bigger was a no go for me. I drove my friends 16' M4, and it runs nice, its simple feels more "bulky"

You s/b able to find a low mileage 240 for close to $30K IMO. (after deal)

Look through BMW CPO site, added warranty...and after deal could go $30K flat. This is auto AWD,...not sure what you are looking for. M2 is harsher and handles better, I'm fine with, but many think not great for DD

https://www.bmwusa.com/certified-pre...2G3C52HV641143

*also you should see more 2018's coming off 3 year lease soon, come spring and 18' might be in that price range or at least close.

Awesome input, thanks so much guys. My Dad has a 4 series and it is indeed quite a bit car. Friend has a 435 with MPPSK and it seems to absolutely rip. I'm gonna keep an eye out for a 240i over the next few months and hopefully a decent one pops up.

[morphomeman]

The difference in price is due in great part to the difference in age. A 235 is always older than a 240, because one model preceded the other in time. So, do you want a newer car or an older car? Conventional wisdom for all pre-owned cars is that the sweet spot is 3 years, which, by definition, leaves you with a 2018 240. That sweet spot has to do with depreciation, which is fairly steep at first, then flattens out at the 3-year spot.
Remember, though, that the 2-series has overall been the most reliable of BMW models in recent years, independent of power train. So, if you find a nice low-mileage 235 outfitted the way you want it, you may want to go for that.
Overall, though, this is a low-production model, so you won't have that many to choose from.
I drive a 2015 235. My wife asked me the other day what car I was interested in getting next. My answer: none. The car is that good, for my purposes, at least.

[Steakpizza]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

The difference in price is due in great part to the difference in age. A 235 is always older than a 240, because one model preceded the other in time. So, do you want a newer car or an older car? Conventional wisdom for all pre-owned cars is that the sweet spot is 3 years, which, by definition, leaves you with a 2018 240. That sweet spot has to do with depreciation, which is fairly steep at first, then flattens out at the 3-year spot.
Remember, though, that the 2-series has overall been the most reliable of BMW models in recent years, independent of power train. So, if you find a nice low-mileage 235 outfitted the way you want it, you may want to go for that.
Overall, though, this is a low-production model, so you won't have that many to choose from.
I drive a 2015 235. My wife asked me the other day what car I was interested in getting next. My answer: none. The car is that good, for my purposes, at least.

Yeah the problem I see is that every 2 series that's up for sale gets snatched up pretty quickly. After looking around more I'm finding a few 240i 30-32k and decent miles which is fine. I hear the B58 is a dope engine too. I would be perfectly fine in an M235i imo, but given my circumstances I think it'd be smart to edge out and get the upgrade.

[l33tw33b]

I love my M240i xDrive. I got a CPO for $32K with 30K miles on it!

[swc5150]

I was in the same situation when I bought my '16 M235. I drove both the 235 and 240 extensively and decide the difference wasn't enough to not go with the best deal/car I could find. My 235 is absolutely mint and I scored an amazing price. I'm stage 2 on it and have zero regrets about not going 240.

[XutvJet]

The B58 in the M240 makes about 20whp/30wtq more than the N55 in the M235. Mod to mod, the b58 tends to come out slightly ahead. It is a "better" engine from an intercooling and turbo standpoint as it has a air to water intercooler and a larger, more efficient turbo, and a better fueling system. However, the B58 WAY more complex so consider the cost of maintenance once out of warranty. The B58 has more water-containing coolers, pumps, and a heat exchanger/intercooler that has the potential to leak coolant directly into the intake manifold, and the timing chain and VANOS system on the rear of the motor. The N55 is pretty tried and true and quite a bit more simple and easier to work on. The n55 is more old school and the B58 the current BMW standard and motor architecture.

The main N55 weak points are the charge pipe, intercooler, and high pressure fuel pump if you want to go over 400whp on pump gas. For most of us, Stage 2 is plenty fast and is slightly stronger than the stock power of a M2C, M3, or M4 when you consider power to weight. My M235 makes around 370whp/390wtq and it's way fast for the street. So much torque and such as wide power band. The power is misleading.

The N55 in the M235 has a forged crank (same as the M2) and the forged rods and bearings from the S55 used in the M2C, M3, and M4.

IMO, the best setup is the 2016-2018 M2 with the N55. You get a FAR better suspension, an improved oil pump and sump designed for high G loads (same system as the S55), electronic LSD (an LSD is a must in these cars), more power (basically the same power as the stock B58), and a reliable and easy to work on motor without the "M" costs like the M2 Competition which has the S55. Plus you get that sexy body. All the M2 N55 really needs is a charge pipe, intercooler, and quality catted downpipe to be an excellent all around 2+2 sports car.

[jv92red]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

IMO, the best setup is the 2016-2018 M2 with the N55. You get a FAR better suspension, an improved oil pump and sump designed for high G loads (same system as the S55), electronic LSD (an LSD is a must in these cars), more power (basically the same power as the stock B58), and a reliable and easy to work on motor without the "M" costs like the M2 Competition which has the S55. Plus you get that sexy body. All the M2 N55 really needs is a charge pipe, intercooler, and quality catted downpipe to be an excellent all around 2+2 sports car.

Sound advice and definitely the sweet spot for a 2 series performance car at a reasonable price per value ratio. The problem is the OP's budget is @ 30K so that hits right at the 235/240 territory. 2016-2018 pre-Comp M2's are going for high 30's to start and that's with at least 30-40K plus miles. For anyone with a 35K budget then I would maybe think about stretching it a little more to get into one of these... I did a quick Autotrader search and see one for sale right now in Vegas. $37K for a white 2016 with 29k miles on it. It's a private sale so no CPO

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by jv92red

2016-2018 pre-Comp M2's are going for high 30's to start and that's with at least 30-40K plus miles.

...plus the inevitable issue/questions about how it was used during those miles.

[Steakpizza]

Thanks for the input guys. So the b58 does not have the forged internals at all? And yeah I'm in a weird price range lol, I want a 240 but if a 235 comes by I know I'll be in good shape

[morphomeman]

Beware of any 'real' M Car! These cars are meant to be driven hard. Why else would one buy such a machine? The likelihood of problems for the second or third owner is much higher than with a boulevard cruiser of the 235 or 240 variety.
And do you really want your car to look like Kim Kardashian?

[jzeiler4]

Originally Posted by Steakpizza

Thanks for the input guys. So the b58 does not have the forged internals at all? And yeah I'm in a weird price range lol, I want a 240 but if a 235 comes by I know I'll be in good shape

Not true the B58 is a closed deck engine with both forged crank and rods. The N54 also had forged internals while the N55 did not.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by jzeiler4

Not true the B58 is a closed deck engine with both forged crank and rods. The N54 also had forged internals while the N55 did not.

True about the B58.

The N55 in the M235 has a forged crank (same as the M2) and forged rods (same ones from the S55). Other N55s have a cast crank and the pre-2014 N55s had weaker rods and crank/rod bearings.

Most N54s have cast cranks. N54s do have forged rods.

No late model turbo motors (i.e. 2007+) have forged pistons.

[jzeiler4]

I have only checked two sources on the net and both said the N55 did not. But then they did not cite a M235 which logically would be different. I'll have to look further.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by jzeiler4

I have only checked two sources on the net and both said the N55 did not. But then they did not cite a M235 which logically would be different. I'll have to look further.

realoem.com has all the answers regarding N55 internal shared parts with M2 and in some cases the S55 in the M2C/M3/M4.

Here's an article talking about the forged crank and rods in the M2 N55. As you'll see on realoem, the crank and rods in the M2 are used in the M235 N55.
https://www.bmwblog.com/2016/07/28/b...ven-better-m2/

Here's an article talking about the forged crank in the M235 vs the cast one used in other N55s. https://www.2addicts.com/forums/show...19&postcount=1

[jzeiler4]

Thanks for the info. This is only my second cage (as we bike riders call them) my first was a 2004 330ci vert with the M54 and I thought that was a solid engine as it had 186,000 on it when I sold it last June.

[Maynard]

I'd vote for first getting the best car - a well-loved one owner with full service records, that hasn't been modded or wrecked. All things being equal, for your purposes (non-track, modest mods) I think you would be better off with the 235 and using the extra money for mods or personalizing it (unless you are somehow falling in love with the LCI changes). The advantages to the B58 aren't really going to matter for street use.

And that Kim Kardashian crack was just mean.

[Steakpizza]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I'd vote for first getting the best car - a well-loved one owner with full service records, that hasn't been modded or wrecked. All things being equal, for your purposes (non-track, modest mods) I think you would be better off with the 235 and using the extra money for mods or personalizing it (unless you are somehow falling in love with the LCI changes). The advantages to the B58 aren't really going to matter for street use.

And that Kim Kardashian crack was just mean.

Yeah I was mostly trying to see how much more a Stage 1 235 is vs a Stage 1 240. I'm trying to be rational because I don't streetrace or do anything like that lol; my 320i is Stage 2 now and while it's not a super car it's definitely much more than what anyone would ever need. I'm starting to edge more toward a 235 since I can save a bit of extra cash and not lose out on much power.

[Maynard]

I would not take the factory ratings very precisely either, so not really clear the 240 has more useable power. I've seen more than a few dyno results that suggest that published figures are just press-release numbers (at least the 228/235's were putting out about as much at the wheels as was stated for flywheel). Factories often just sandbag so the mid-cycle upgrades can 'add 10-20hp' without any real changes or new testing/certifications.

[jv92red]

Originally Posted by Maynard

The advantages to the B58 aren't really going to matter for street use.

Stock for stock the B58 puts out 37lbs more foot-pounds of torque than the 235i (369 lb⋅ft vs 332 lb⋅ft) and this is ALL about street use where you're accelerating at lower RPM's most of the time. I won't even mention any HP advantage figures cause those require higher RPM to access. It's this extra torque that makes this motor much more fun around town.

And OP, if your thinking about modding, go check out the F30/F31 B58 page on this forum where there are a TON of guys with just four mods (fuel pump, tune, DP and E85 mix) putting out close to 500hp on the stock 240i turbo. And this is proven reliable so far. A few guys putting out over 650HP with bigger turbos have had tranny issues but the motor itself if given enough fuel has been proven reliable even at this level thus far.