[spidy512]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Here's the question I always have, and it comes from having grown up in CO, WY, MT, and ND in the 50s: however did those RWD cars with their, compared to today, really chitty tires, make it through winters tougher than Truckee typically had and has?

IOW, how hard is it really to drive a RWD car in challenging winter conditions if the dads, grandpas, and great-grandpas did it with dramatically worse equipment? This is the question I keep coming back to.

Have you spent a winter in Truckee? Or many winters in Truckee? The Donner Party ring a bell (tongue/cheek)? The past 10 years of global weather change doesn't count...

Truckee most def has some of the worst winter conditions I have ever come across. Four feet of Sierra Cement overnight? That was the norm when I first lived there in the early 90's. The combo of a high water content and warm weather pounding the Sierras as the jet stream freight trains off the Pacific make for some incredible snow totals. And the stuff is like cement mixed with glue. Nothing like what the rest of the Country sees as far as snow goes. Yeah, the Canadians and everyone up north has some BRUTAL winter conditions. I have been through some crazy storms up north. But it is still very different than what goes on in Sierras. I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.

With that said, of course a properly set up RWD car can easily be driven in the snow. I am a huge fan of studless winter tires (I have also had many sets of studded) and they very much equal the playing field when comparing to AWD or 4WD. FWD is even better in many cases mainly due to the weight distribution, etc. But I do not disagree with any of you on 2WD vs AWD and is it necessary. And in a "performance" car, clearly the lack of weight and extra rotating mass makes for a more desirable combo. So I get why folks are not interested in AWD.

The problem in Truckee is chain control exist. And sometimes 2WD with snow tires does not meet the CHP's requirements based on snow conditions. Not to mention being able to successfully navigate 2 feet of snow on the road for 25 miles. Simply for convenience, I will take the AWD/4WD over the 2WD. Putting on chains suck, they can ruin your suspension over time, and you can go maybe 30 mph (not that you should be going any faster. HAHA). We also have really crappy drivers in Cali (like you didn't know that), so yet again, AWD wins as you have to navigate roads full of drift hero's that have no clue how to drive in the snow. And the progression towards SUV's as the family hauler has only made the issue worse (false sense of security much?)...

So you see, for those of us who lived/live in Truckee/Tahoe, we simply chose to err on the side or ease with the added bonus of making it simply easier to drive in snow. Without Chain control in place, your damn right many locals would absolutely drive more 2WD vehicles.

FWIW, I learned to drive in the snow in a 1977 Volvo 240DL. My Dad insisted I learn on a 2WD before I even got close to the 4WD. I thank my Dad all the time for that.... So yeah. in the past we all got around fine in 2WD. But I am willing to bet all those old Dad's, Grandpa's and Great Grandpa's would have probably chosen a AWD/4WD vehicle vs a 2WD given the opportunity. I know mine would have....

josh

PS. No need to turn this into a 2WD vs AWD thing. I think we can all respect each others experiences. I certainly respect those of you who posted about 2WD experiences, ESPECIALLY the vert. ice racer. HAHA!

[Gepeto]

One thing with comparing to « our grandparents » is .. we also need to realize that car safety has improved a LOT. Sure, a drop in injuries or deaths does not correlate directly to a drop in accidents (people could still be having as many accidents and not getting injured as much), but I have a feeling i’s a mix of both.

That being said, if you don’t mash the throttle in corners and have good tires, you’ll be more than fine.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by spidy512

Have you spent a winter in Truckee? Or many winters in Truckee?

Four feet of Sierra Cement overnight? And the stuff is like cement mixed with glue. Nothing like what the rest of the Country sees as far as snow goes. I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.

The problem in Truckee is chain control exist.

FWIW, I learned to drive in the snow in a 1977 Volvo 240DL. But I am willing to bet all those old Dad's, Grandpa's and Great Grandpa's would have probably chosen a AWD/4WD vehicle vs a 2WD given the opportunity.

Nope. I lived in San Francisco from the 6th grade on and had friends who moved to the Tahoe area after high school. I'd go up to visit, but always made sure I wouldn't have to deal with chains or a closed highway. Chains were a major thing when I was a kid and we were living in the mountain states. I learned a lot of new words watching people put their chains on...and taking them off!

Don't underestimate the enjoyment to be derived from 24" of the stuff a Nor'easter can dump on the East Coast. That's an un-drifted 24", mind you. I'd enjoy seeing the actual difference between Sierra Cement (which I tried skiing on...once!) and what a typical Nor'easter produces. Granted, the Sierra has traditionally had greater dumps and higher rates of snowfall during the most intense storms. Many times I had to finish up after our snow plow guy had done the basics, and the heavy, wet snow left behind after a Nor'easter is guaranteed to put hair on your chest. Ten-foot winters of that stuff is the reason we left Northern New England for a place where 8" of snow is "a lot".

Yes...chains...something to be avoided. When we first moved to NNE in the late 90s we bought a V70 T5 and asked the service manager about chains. He acknowledged that Volvo did sell chains, but that no one in the region used them. I thought that meant snow wasn't really a big thing. That was wrong; chains just weren't used up there. Nor were gutters put on the roofs of people's homes.

I learned winter driving in a Volvo 122S (aka Amazon). That was in NW Arkansas, where ice was the prevailing unpleasant winter driving condition. The town had hills to boot, so creative routes had to be found to get to work and back. Most cars couldn't move on those days (although thaws tended to arrive pretty quickly, so the place would shut down for maybe one school day at the most), but the 122S would roll away from a stop on glare ice if I just let the clutch out in 1st gear with no gas. It took me a couple of tries to figure that out. That was 50 years ago, and I have no idea what I had for tires (they weren't the "snow" tires of that period) – whatever was cheapest would be my guess!

[WAFU7]

Originally Posted by spidy512

I have to chuckle when I see the East coast paralyzed when they get over two feet of snow.

This made me chuckle. Parts of the UK grind to a halt with a good couple of *inches* of snow. The prospect of two feet of the white stuff, let alone more...

[airjesse]

Interesting to see so many former Subaru owners here. Count me as one: I had a 2010 outback for many years. I would head to the snow many times a season. Now that I'm in Southern California, time for an m240i convertible

[morphomeman]

Remarkable data. I wonder if the trend is inversely correlated with gun deaths.

[Captain Brock]

Originally Posted by HogFan760

I'm changing the springs because I like the look of the car a little lower.

Seriously? For LOOKS?? The car is already drastically low, possibly it's only real issue! Can I get springs to raise it a tiny bit?

[rrman]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I don’t think there is anywhere in Canada that has paved roads where a RWD car with the appropriate winter tyres can’t be used year round. We actually have ice racing with RWD classes in the local car club. This was my ski vehicle for about 7 years, 190cm skis or shorter with the tails in the passenger footwell and tips between the seat headrests worked fine, easiest to get them in and out with the roof down:

Nice pic, I have never seen a convertible IRL at a ski hill!

[freakystyly]

I've seen supercars with ski racks heading up to the hills out west but convertibles seem to be more rare in general.

As long as the snow stays below your undercarriage, you're good with RWD. Even then, an inch or two above in soft powder is fine.

[Neverlost99]

I live on 40 miles of North Carolina switchbacks. I love the stereo and pretty much everything about having a convertible when it is 64 degrees, blue and perfect and the Jan 6 rioters will be in jail long after I need another car.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by rrman

Nice pic, I have never seen a convertible IRL at a ski hill!

Used to drive our Z4M up to Sunshine, Lake Louise and Kicking Horse quite a bit. One of the best brief drives I've ever done was in that car on the Kicking Horse access road when it was fully snow covered. A nice spring skiing day with the roof down and rooster tails of snow flying up in the air off the back tyres, tail out on the sharper corners.

[rrman]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Used to drive our Z4M up to Sunshine, Lake Louise and Kicking Horse quite a bit. One of the best brief drives I've ever done was in that car on the Kicking Horse access road when it was fully snow covered. A nice spring skiing day with the roof down and rooster tails of snow flying up in the air off the back tyres, tail out on the sharper corners.

I can actually picture this

Kicking Horse has some serious terrain. Banff and Lake Louise are awesome also.
I love our mostly annual ski trips out west to the Rockies.