[Chinto]

Hi everyone..
I’ve been a happy 2006 E90 330i MT owner for over 10 years.. until some idiot ran into me and insurance is going to write it off.
I’m looking to replace it with a 2015-2017 M235i MT. Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of time to shop around and do my usual research.. so I’’m asking for some quick advice (some specific to Canadian cars)

-any issues I should pay particular attention to when looking at cars? I’d prefer one under 50000kms with existing warranty but can’t be too picky.
-is the base stereo any good? I’m willing to limit my search to HK equipped cars if the base stereo is crap (and the upgraded stereo is good!)
-when did Apple CarPlay become available? And is it always a subscription on BMWs after the first year?
- in Canada was the premium package the only option? Any sport package/ suspension/seat upgrades?
-will my style 135 winter wheels (e46 ZSP) require spacers? I currently use 15mm spacers on the E90.
Sorry for the seemingly stupid questions but not much press info on the older Canadian cars..and I’ve only got a couple days and pretty limited supply of cars available..
Thanks!
Joe

[FCBuff]

Sorry for your loss. Good news is, the f22 is great car!
Known issues are typical for the n55 engine. Expect water pump replacement at 50k miles. Oil pan gasket leaks, OFHG, normal stuff in the BMW world. Engines are generally bullet proof otherwise. General consensus is the HK upgrade is not worth it, stick with the base stereo. All though used cars usually don't demand a premium so take it if found.

Wheel offsets and sizing are tricky...do some research there. Doubt if those old wheels work???
No extra sport pkg,seats etc. they are all the same there

Not sure about Apple car play. May have to get a newer one ie. m240?

In general, great cars. Get one!

[BEM-S4]

HK stereo is easier to upgrade than base, and apple car play can be retrofitted. Wheels probably won't work but lots of affordable options for a winter setup stick with 17".

[jooksingjai77]

2017 is when the M240 started. New B58 engine that produces more power.

The base sound system is pretty lacklustre.

Apple car play is subscription service for MY 2018+. There are coders on Kijiji who can unlock it (found a few myself when I got my 2017). Just be aware if BMW does DME updates it may go away and you'd have to flash again.

I'm unsure of the options in Canada as I bought mine used. It came with the premium package and here were the options from my vin: (there is a second page but nothing to do with performance equipment)

S1CAA Selection of COP relevant vehicles
S1CBA CO2 package
S248A Steering wheel heater
S249A Multifunction f steering wheel
S2NHA M Sport brakes
S2PGA BMW LA wheel M Double Spoke 436
S2TBA Sport automatic transmission
S2VCA Tire repair kit
S2VFA Adaptive M suspension
S2VLA Variable Sport steering
S302A Alarm system
S322A Comfort access
S3AGA Reversing camera
S403A Glass roof, electrical
S423A Floor mats, velours
S430A Interior/outside mirror with auto dip
S431A Interior mirror with automatic-dip
S459A Seat adjuster, electric, with memory
S465A Through-loading system
S481A Sports seat
S494A Seat heating driver/passenger
S4AEA Armrest front, retractable
S4NEA Blow-by heater
S4WFA Alu, hexagon, matt blue accent
S508A Park Distance Control (PDC)
S521A Rain sensor
S522A Xenon Light
S534A Automatic air conditioning

[Chinto]

Sounds like the same issues as my 330!
Thanks for the quick feedback.. I’m hoping to check out a couple today..

[4Hockey4]

I have a 16' 235i MT. Base stereo is pretty bad. (got I found a CPO in 16'...not many left.

I'd also note there is a premium on older MT. I looked and looked for 6 months. For the 2016, all things consistent, MT seemed 2-3K more here in US, and less willing to budge.

I paid 31K for mine (had to have gray and blacked out MT But here's a 16 for $36k !!!! You can get auto 240i under $40K

https://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/201...0090?zip=23059

Good luck

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

I have a 16' 235i MT. Base stereo is pretty bad. (got I found a CPO in 16'...not many left.

I'd also note there is a premium on older MT. I looked and looked for 6 months. For the 2016, all things consistent, MT seemed 2-3K more here in US, and less willing to budge.

I paid 31K for mine (had to have gray and blacked out MT But here's a 16 for $36k !!!! You can get auto 240i under $40K

https://cpo.bmwusa.com/certified/201...0090?zip=23059

Good luck

Anyone can list a car for any price. If they can find a someone to buy it for a higher price, good for them. Wholesale prices are not any higher for manual. In fact, sometimes they are actually a little lower because demand (the amount of people actually purchasing) is limited, even though we all love manuals.

Now if you actually have a super rare car with a manual (such as my one-of-one build 650), different story. But the 2 series is hardly a collector's car or rare.

[4Hockey4]

Search car gurus/autotrader for low mileage 235 MT. Do for a few months. I wholesaled cars for a few years. That $36k I posted won't even go down to $33K let alone $31K that I paid for mine. (which was a tad high)

When I bought mine, there was 6 (4 in Cali) 16' 235i MT in US using 12 sites. I paid slightly more.

I could get a 18' 240i with 4K for $38K.

So getting one below 30K (wholesale around 27/28)with CPO in MT ? good luck.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Anyone can list a car for any price. If they can find a someone to buy it for a higher price, good for them. Wholesale prices are not any higher for manual. In fact, sometimes they are actually a little lower because demand (the amount of people actually purchasing) is limited, even though we all love manuals.

Now if you actually have a super rare car with a manual (such as my one-of-one build 650), different story. But the 2 series is hardly a collector's car or rare.

6MT M235s a fetch a premium over the 8AT M235s and the M240 will be no different soon. Almost all 6MTs were special order. The desirability of the 6MT is strong, but they are very rare, especially ones in good condition and with the optional LSD. Expect to pay $2-3K more for the 6MT. Most 6MT owners know what they have. Wholesale doesn't reflect the demand and has a ton of bias seeing that only about 8% of all M235s are 6MTs.

[JG_Media9]

Originally Posted by Chinto

Hi everyone..
I’ve been a happy 2006 E90 330i MT owner for over 10 years.. until some idiot ran into me and insurance is going to write it off.
I’m looking to replace it with a 2015-2017 M235i MT. Unfortunately I don’t have a lot of time to shop around and do my usual research.. so I’’m asking for some quick advice (some specific to Canadian cars)

-any issues I should pay particular attention to when looking at cars? I’d prefer one under 50000kms with existing warranty but can’t be too picky.
-is the base stereo any good? I’m willing to limit my search to HK equipped cars if the base stereo is crap (and the upgraded stereo is good!)
-when did Apple CarPlay become available? And is it always a subscription on BMWs after the first year?
- in Canada was the premium package the only option? Any sport package/ suspension/seat upgrades?
-will my style 135 winter wheels (e46 ZSP) require spacers? I currently use 15mm spacers on the E90.
Sorry for the seemingly stupid questions but not much press info on the older Canadian cars..and I’ve only got a couple days and pretty limited supply of cars available..
Thanks!
Joe

Yeah, get a new charge pipe fist thing.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

Search car gurus/autotrader for low mileage 235 MT. Do for a few months. I wholesaled cars for a few years. That $36k I posted won't even go down to $33K let alone $31K that I paid for mine. (which was a tad high)

When I bought mine, there was 6 (4 in Cali) 16' 235i MT in US using 12 sites. I paid slightly more.

I could get a 18' 240i with 4K for $38K.

So getting one below 30K (wholesale around 27/28)with CPO in MT ? good luck.

MMR for 2015 m235 with 40,000 miles is 21k, 2016 with 40k miles is 23k, and 2017 m240 with 40,000 miles is 27k. We're not seeing more than $1k variance for manual. I'm looking at real wholesale sales numbers, not just an individual personal experiences. Retail prices are obviously more, usually about 10%. If you're looking at cars with 4K miles, obviously those will sell for significantly more.

Wholesale for the 2018 m240 with 4K miles is 38k!

[keylime503]

I'm not sure when the SUBSCRIPTION Apple CarPlay started. I have a 2017 M240 and Apple CarPlay was just a $300 option. No subscription or anything like that.

[flybywire]

My 2015 doesn't have Nav, which is fine with me. Side effect that I didn't expect is that it has a smaller display than the Nav cars (7" v 8.8" from memory).

If you're looking to add CarPlay to a 2015 or older you need to add hardware. Bimmer-Tech has an interface for about 700 USD. If you do that, however, you probably want the big screen.

It's a great car. Go for it.

[jooksingjai77]

Originally Posted by keylime503

I'm not sure when the SUBSCRIPTION Apple CarPlay started. I have a 2017 M240 and Apple CarPlay was just a $300 option. No subscription or anything like that.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a1...an-annual-fee/

[Maynard]

May be wroth your while to be looking into importing US cars - I'm in Syracuse NY (Burdick BMW) and I think they have had at least one MT 2 series on the lot used every time I've been in for service and they don't seem to be super hot sellers; had an M2 MT that hung around for about 6 months. I think that, regardless of all the 'save the manuals' hype, they get old after a short time and people end up moving to the (superb) AT.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I'm in Syracuse NY (Burdick BMW) and I think they have had at least one MT 2 series on the lot used every time I've been in for service and they don't seem to be super hot sellers; had an M2 MT that hung around for about 6 months. I think that, regardless of all the 'save the manuals' hype, they get old after a short time and people end up moving to the (superb) AT.

Bingo. This is what we're seeing as well. If it was a collectible car with a manual, it would surely hold its value and maybe appreciate. But the 2 series of, including M2, are mass-produced vehicles and the manuals are depreciating the same as the automatics. And as I said before, in some cases, the demand for manuals for people who are actually buying is relatively low, so there may be more deals around.

When you think about it, the manuals on paper have literally no advantage over the automatics now. There are very few people willing to spend money on a car that's a bigger hassle, slower, lower gas mileage, more jerky, etc. You have to really be a purist to actually want to own and deal with a manual as a daily driver now. I'm one of those few purists!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by thebmw

Bingo. This is what we're seeing as well. If it was a collectible car with a manual, it would surely hold its value and maybe appreciate. But the 2 series of, including M2, are mass-produced vehicles and the manuals are depreciating the same as the automatics. And as I said before, in some cases, the demand for manuals for people who are actually buying is relatively low, so there may be more deals around.

When you think about it, the manuals on paper have literally no advantage over the automatics now. There are very few people willing to spend money on a car that's a bigger hassle, slower, lower gas mileage, more jerky, etc. You have to really be a purist to actually want to own and deal with a manual as a daily driver now. I'm one of those few purists!

People looking to buy these cars now tend to be enthusiasts. Autos are EVERYWHERE. Of the 339 M235s currently for sale in the nation right now on cars.com, 22 are listed as manuals. Of those 22, 5 are actually autos. So, 5% are manuals. Of those manuals, they tend to have $2K+ higher asking prices. We constantly read posts on here where people spent months looking for a used 6MT, only to have to settle for a color they didn't really want and they paid more.

These are not collectible cars at all, but the market is the same as the E4X and E9X series M cars. The 6MTs command more money and are more desirable. M2s are far more prevalent to find in a 6MT as the take rate is nearly 50%, but the resale is also a lot higher so those cars tend to sit on lots because most people aren't wanting to spend $40K+ on a used car, especially a small sporty one.

Also, a dealer will give you less for a 6MT trade-in because they will try and convince you that it's a less desirable car (LOL), but they know damn well that the 6MT will sell for at or close to asking price and will be gone within a week or less.

You're right though, the 6MT is slower, gets worse MPGs, and isn't remotely as smooth driving as the 8AT, but I didn't order and buy this car for any of those purposes. I knew what I was getting into. I also ordered mine without a moonroof, no NAV, and it's got the LSD. It will be far more desirable to a select group of drivers.

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

People looking to buy these cars now tend to be enthusiasts. Autos are EVERYWHERE. Of the 339 M235s currently for sale in the nation right now on cars.com, 22 are listed as manuals. Of those 22, 5 are actually autos. So, 5% are manuals. Of those manuals, they tend to have $2K+ higher asking prices. We constantly read posts on here where people spent months looking for a used 6MT, only to have to settle for a color they didn't really want and they paid more.

These are not collectible cars at all, but the market is the same as the E4X and E9X series M cars. The 6MTs command more money and are more desirable. M2s are far more prevalent to find in a 6MT as the take rate is nearly 50%, but the resale is also a lot higher so those cars tend to sit on lots because most people aren't wanting to spend $40K+ on a used car, especially a small sporty one.

Also, a dealer will give you less for a 6MT trade-in because they will try and convince you that it's a less desirable car (LOL), but they know damn well that the 6MT will sell for at or close to asking price and will be gone within a week or less.

You're right though, the 6MT is slower, gets worse MPGs, and isn't remotely as smooth driving as the 8AT, but I didn't order and buy this car for any of those purposes. I knew what I was getting into. I also ordered mine without a moonroof, no NAV, and it's got the LSD. It will be far more desirable to a select group of drivers.

It sounds like we are both purists. But no nav and no sunroof would actually be a deal-breaker for me. So to your point, that's why some of these cars will sit around for a long time. There are so few manuals and of the ones that are available, they may not have the build orders that people are looking for. That's why a lot of people settle for build order they don't like or color they don't like or they'll just bite the bullet and get the automatic.

The dealers offer less for the manuals because they do sit around and tying up money in a car costs them money. But even if the manuals are commanding more, I'm not seeing more than $1,000 which is relatively meaningless to me. And remember, people can ask whatever asking price they want, but when we're looking at sales prices and wholesale prices, we're really not seeing much of a difference compared to automatics.

Again, it comes to supply and demand. While the supply is very low, the demand from people who are actually forking money over for that exact build is even lower.

[4Hockey4]

Originally Posted by thebmw

MMR for 2015 m235 with 40,000 miles is 21k, 2016 with 40k miles is 23k, and 2017 m240 with 40,000 miles is 27k. We're not seeing more than $1k variance for manual. I'm looking at real wholesale sales numbers, not just an individual personal experiences. Retail prices are obviously more, usually about 10%. If you're looking at cars with 4K miles, obviously those will sell for significantly more.

Wholesale for the 2018 m240 with 4K miles is 38k!

There are a handfull online (not on KBB, or black book...they don't sell cars, they list low ball auction prices)

Just ran car gurus, outside Cali/west coast I found 3 non wrecked, lower mileage (under 30k, 40K for that car is high) that are 2016 235i MT, all 3 dealer websites said this was there "best" web site price, non negotiable. $29.6...far cry from your $23K with slightly higher mileage...

Get one for $25K with decent mileage non wreeked, buy it, they are selling for 30K+. Typical car dealership gets $2-$3k over wholesale, not the case here obviously

[thebmw]

Originally Posted by 4Hockey4

There are a handfull online (not on KBB, or black book...they don't sell cars, they list low ball auction prices)

Just ran car gurus, outside Cali/west coast I found 3 non wrecked, lower mileage (under 30k, 40K for that car is high) that are 2016 235i MT, all 3 dealer websites said this was there "best" web site price, non negotiable. $29.6...far cry from your $23K with slightly higher mileage...

Get one for $25K with decent mileage non wreeked, buy it, they are selling for 30K+. Typical car dealership gets $2-$3k over wholesale, not the case here obviously

Again, asking price and sales prices are not the same thing. And again, MT are usually getting between $0-1k more for all the reasons I stated previously. I'm sure there are examples where someone paid $3k more, but those were not the norm. BTW, 40k miles for a 2016 (which is now a 4 year old car is not "high" mileage. In fact, some would consider it low mileage as it amounts to 10k miles/year. Fair selling price for a 2016 with 40k miles would be around 26-27k, depending on build and assuming good condition. Awesome build with perfect condition may be 29k...some imperfections, 23k.

Looks like you might be getting a little emotional about the pricing (based on the comment you deleted/edited). I see that you own a 2016 235 MT, but the numbers are the numbers. Next year, your car will be worth less (just like the year after that and the year after that). I'm just the messenger for the facts...I didn't invent depreciation or the car market.

[4Hockey4]

nm

Again OP, if you can get a low mileage 16 235i MT for well under $30K non wrecked, snath it up, hard to come by

Will Vroom ship to Toronto ? This is decent mileage

https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=256046746

Cheers

[Hap]

I have bought 2 cars off vroom. Both excellent condition and was very happy with transactions. I bought 2016 m235 22k miles for 29k. They have mt but I wanted auto. Check it out. Or fly to Houston and drive it home !
Hap