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      10-21-2019, 12:23 PM   #23
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I've had RWD E90 330i, E90 335d, and the M240i, all with dedicated summer only staggered setups and separate sets of minus 1 winter wheels and square rubber. Once, I got caught in unseasonably cold weather prior to my fall change out, mid 30 temps, and those tires had near zero grip. Scared the crap out of me, the E90 was all over the highway.

BEM-S4 has it right - driving on summer rubber in cold temps is dangerous.
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      10-21-2019, 12:25 PM   #24
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This one million times over. For the money you have in the car + your life. It wil take one mishap and the cost will easily surpass a set of winter wheels and tires or worse.


Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Driving summer tires in winter is foolish and dangerous. Even if perfectly dry outside the compound is not meant for cold, gets hard and slick. Bad for the tires and bad for handling. I once got caught in April with summer tires on a random cold day and slid sideways across my parking lot - pavement was perfectly dry.

Getting winter wheels and tires doesn't actually cost you much, your summers will last twice as long and you'll be safe year round.
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      10-21-2019, 12:49 PM   #25
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I’d never had near zero grip on Michelin Pilot super sport summer tires on dry 30 degree temps.
In the forties at normal speeds I can’t even tell it’s a summer tire compared to all season.
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      10-21-2019, 12:51 PM   #26
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I spent a few months in Germany during the winter with a rented 118i. It, of course, had winter tires on it. Every car on the road in Germany during fall / winter / early spring have winter tires on them. Seemed that pretty much every German had 2 sets of tires and it was a rite of Fall / Spring to switch them out.

Which makes me think how Germans would react to someone asking if anyone kept summer tires on in the winter. It would be like asking if anyone regretted walking out of their house naked. And setting themselves on fire. Then jumping off a cliff.
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      10-21-2019, 01:09 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
I spent a few months in Germany during the winter with a rented 118i. It, of course, had winter tires on it. Every car on the road in Germany during fall / winter / early spring have winter tires on them. Seemed that pretty much every German had 2 sets of tires and it was a rite of Fall / Spring to switch them out.

Which makes me think how Germans would react to someone asking if anyone kept summer tires on in the winter. It would be like asking if anyone regretted walking out of their house naked. And setting themselves on fire. Then jumping off a cliff.
Some places it's literally illegal to run summer tires in winter, ran into this in Stockholm too.
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      10-21-2019, 01:44 PM   #28
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Yesterday at Auto-x here was a great demonstration of lack of grip of summer tyres around the freezing point. The first runs of the day started with ambient temperatures of -1°C (overnight low was -6°C) and the high in the afternoon was 8°C (46°F). 39 cars all running summer tyres as far as I could see (RE-71R being predominant, but MPSS on some cars, too). I left my slicks at home as did everyone else who runs them normally.

First runs for everyone were 8 to 10 seconds slower then the afternoon runs, with the best run of the day being 47 seconds. 8 seconds in that course length correlates to about half the peak g-force in cornering and braking (slicks when warm will normally give a 0.2g advantage over max performance summer tyres on the same car and 2 seconds in overall time). Also lots more spin-outs and cones hit due to a lot more oversteer and understeer.
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      10-22-2019, 12:39 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEM-S4 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkDemma View Post
I spent a few months in Germany during the winter with a rented 118i. It, of course, had winter tires on it. Every car on the road in Germany during fall / winter / early spring have winter tires on them. Seemed that pretty much every German had 2 sets of tires and it was a rite of Fall / Spring to switch them out.

Which makes me think how Germans would react to someone asking if anyone kept summer tires on in the winter. It would be like asking if anyone regretted walking out of their house naked. And setting themselves on fire. Then jumping off a cliff.
Some places it's literally illegal to run summer tires in winter, ran into this in Stockholm too.
It is in Germany. They won't pull you over for it. But if you get into an accident with summer tires on you get in all sorts of trouble.
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      10-22-2019, 12:37 PM   #30
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The stock 18'' MPSS is bothering on being dangerous in the wet in the summer. It would even be more dangerous in Winter. If one is going use a set of summer tyres in Winter, it should not be 18'' MPSS
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      10-22-2019, 12:54 PM   #31
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If you pick up a Euro delivery car from BMW in Munich between November 1 and April 1 (or some similar dates), it must be equipped with winter tires. They will not let you drive it off otherwise. In the past, they would rent you the winter setup for a reasonable sum and swap in a summer set at the drop-off point before shipment to the Americas. I don't know if the latter is still true, but the no-summer-tire policy holds.
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      10-22-2019, 12:56 PM   #32
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So is there a good performance tire that you can run in winter ? I'm in Richmond va, occ. winter precip. but wouldn't drive 235i then. Have Pirelli RFT now and would like a better performance tire, but something i can drive under 32 degrees.

Is there such a hybrid ? (Don't need Michelin PS4 summer performance, but can't do decdicated summer tire.)

Whats best performance tire that can be driven year round ? Pilot Sport A/S 3 ??

Here's tirerack suggestions....thx for responses

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/types...&affiliate=HM5
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      10-22-2019, 01:09 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Whats best performance tire that can be driven year round ? Pilot Sport A/S 3 ??
That's the tire I chose for the shoulder seasons here in Ohio. I'll run them when ambient temps are in the 30-50° range.

This recent Tire Rack comparison test convinced me the MPS A/S 3+ would be the best tire for my needs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=241.
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      10-22-2019, 01:29 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
That's the tire I chose for the shoulder seasons here in Ohio. I'll run them when ambient temps are in the 30-50° range.

This recent Tire Rack comparison test convinced me the MPS A/S 3+ would be the best tire for my needs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=241.
Sorry to thread jack I have the 225/18's currently, can I do 235/40/18 non staggered ?

Since mine came with RFT, going to Y rating is pointless, unless there is a difference in handling, or is it just top speed rating

THx
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      10-22-2019, 01:33 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BenDiem View Post
Greetings all,

As the title states, does anyone regret having retained OEM performance summer tires (Michelin Pilot Super Sports) w/225/18 & 245/18, during the winter months, especially those living in areas where temps dip below freezing???

I posted here, as opposed to the Wheel/Tire Section, in order to receive a larger response pool.

I ask, because I know that I am rationalizing having AWD/X-Drive on my car, knowing that summer tires don't perform well with temps dipping below 40 degrees or so. This is especially true with high performance cars with OEM Ultra High Performance (UHP) tires.

I don't want to go the winter/summer tire exchange route, so if I purchase new tires, I would get UHP A/S tires...

I'm looking for real world driving experiences with anyone who drives an X-Drive 2 Series, and has retained the summer performance tires during the winter months. What are/were your experiences???

TYIA/Cheers,

B
I currently have a 230i XDrive and have had both run-flat Continental summer tires that came on the car and Pirelli all-seasons. At first, when they put on the Pirelli tires I was extremely disappointed about the ride quality and it felt as if the car was on stilts and no longer hugged the ground like it previously had with the Continentals. However, I had the tires put on in late July and the weather was still nice so I never truly got to utilize the true purpose of the Pirelli tire, which was driving in the rain. Since I live in Washington, the rain came as scheduled the first week of September and it really showed the true colors of the Pirelli all-season tire. Not only, did the tire outperform the Continental in the rain, it felt like I was in a heavier 3-series that wasn't bouncing all over the road. This driving has also translated into my nice weather commutes, which I think is due to the tires wearing in a little. Overall, the Continental summer tires were outstanding and they were, without doubt, grippier and a more comforting drive than the Pirelli's during the nicer weather months. Unfortunately, being it rains 10 out of the 12 months revealed the true weaknesses of the tire and giving the all-seasons Pirelli's the higher vote in my opinion.
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      10-22-2019, 01:49 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Sorry to thread jack
PM'd.
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      10-22-2019, 02:29 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dradernh View Post
That's the tire I chose for the shoulder seasons here in Ohio. I'll run them when ambient temps are in the 30-50° range.

This recent Tire Rack comparison test convinced me the MPS A/S 3+ would be the best tire for my needs: https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=241.
Have you run them in the snow though? Tirerack has yet to test the A/S 3+ in the snow.

Years ago I had the Bridgestone Potenza 980AS on my 2012 WRX because I wanted an all season performance tire. Those tires were very good in anything between 40 and 80 degrees. They were very close to a cheaper summer tire in terms of grip in the warmer temps. However, once temps got below 40s and the snow fell, OMG, those tires were crap and dangerous. It was very close to driving on summer tires. The tires were frightening. They couldn't get going, couldn't stop, and couldn't turn. I learned that a tire can't be everything and the 980AS was focused towards summer tire grip. I ripped those off after one winter season and installed the Continental DWS06. Those tires were exceptional in anything below 75 degrees. In warmer weather they started to get pretty soft and lost grip easier. In the snow, they were shockingly good.

The A/S 3+ has a very similar summer tire tread design (larger tread blocks) and minimal sipping just like the 980AS. The DWS06 has smaller tread blocks and way more sipping and is largely why it does so much better in the winter and why it's not as good in the summer. If I had to choose a single tire for all duty on this car, the DWS06 would be it be a landslide.
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      10-22-2019, 02:44 PM   #38
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To answer the OPs questions:

1) The MPSS and MP4S tires get very hard once temps dip below 50. They are downright dangerous in sub 40 degree temps and the wet. I've driven on them for a while in those conditions. It's not recommended. Braking and handling are very comprised. You'll go absolutely no where on these tires in the snow. Promise. In 60+ degree temps, the MPSS and especially the MP4S tires are amazing in the dry and wet. If you've got issues with them in the wet, then they're likely worn out and/or you're trying to drive too hard in deep water.

2) My winter setup is a square 225/45 Michilin Alpin PA4 setup. This will be my 3rd winter on them. They offer very good snow traction (3 inches or less, wetter snow) and have much better grip in sub 40 degree temps. They are also terrible and dangerous in temps above 55 degrees, especially the wet. The tires wear very fast too, don't look good, and are narrow.

3) My next winter tire will be the DWS06. I had these on my WRX and they were an exceptional tire. The DWS06 will offer a little less traction in the snow compared to my PA4s, but I can count on two hands the number of times I've actually driven in snow with my M235. Snow removal is very good where I live in Kansas City. We get 18 to 30 inches of snow a year, but it's rare that significant amounts of snow remain on the streets for longer than 2 to 6 hours. Plus, I don't have to drive in the snow if I don't want to as I have a job where I can work from home. I also keep a set of AutoSocks in the trunk for additional snow traction.

The DWS06 will work the best for the type of winter driving I do which is routinely 20 to 40 degrees and wet and slushy roads 10% of the time and rarely snow covered roads. I believe in outfitting a car for the conditions it will encounter the most, not the worst case. Planning for the worst case is silly because then you compromise driving in the other conditions (for example PA4s being total crap in 55+ degree temps).
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      10-22-2019, 03:05 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Have you run them in the snow though? Tirerack has yet to test the A/S 3+ in the snow.

Years ago I had the Bridgestone Potenza 980AS on my 2012 WRX because I wanted an all season performance tire. Those tires were very good in anything between 40 and 80 degrees. They were very close to a cheaper summer tire in terms of grip in the warmer temps. However, once temps got below 40s and the snow fell, OMG, those tires were crap and dangerous. It was very close to driving on summer tires. The tires were frightening. They couldn't get going, couldn't stop, and couldn't turn. I learned that a tire can't be everything and the 980AS was focused towards summer tire grip. I ripped those off after one winter season and installed the Continental DWS06. Those tires were exceptional in anything below 75 degrees. In warmer weather they started to get pretty soft and lost grip easier. In the snow, they were shockingly good.

The A/S 3+ has a very similar summer tire tread design (larger tread blocks) and minimal sipping just like the 980AS. The DWS06 has smaller tread blocks and way more sipping and is largely why it does so much better in the winter and why it's not as good in the summer. If I had to choose a single tire for all duty on this car, the DWS06 would be it be a landslide.
Updated from Tirerack:

Continental has led the way with the ExtremeContact DWS 06 (and its predecessors), which has established itself as the winter performance benchmark for the category. This tire delivers good acceleration and braking traction, along with surprisingly capable handling around our snow-covered test course. Special attention should also be paid to Michelin for the work they have done with the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. After its predecessor fell short of expectations in winter conditions, Michelin deployed a significant tread compound change for the "plus" version used in this test, and we can confirm it delivers on Michelin's promise of strong snow traction. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ was able to accelerate and brake slightly better than the ExtremeContact DWS 06. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+'s straightforward five-rib tread pattern didn't have quite as much lateral grip as the ExtremeContact DWS 06 with its trademark cross-hatch tread pattern, and consequently displayed greater understeer during cornering.
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      10-22-2019, 03:25 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Have you run them in the snow though? Tirerack has yet to test the A/S 3+ in the snow.
All my driving is voluntary, and I don't drive in the snow, so it's unlikely to ever come up. Plus, I have X‑Ice Xi3s for winter, and I still have the OEM MPSS' for summer.

The A/S 3+s are just for in-between. I got them because our local BMW club has an annual driving get-together out in Hocking Hills. Given last year's demanding route, ambient temps were too cold for summer tires. That route was also totally unsuitable for the X‑Ice Xi3s, so for this year I went ahead and got the A/S 3+s just in case.

Of course, this year's drive took place in mid-70s temps - but hey, that meant I could run the MPSS'!
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      10-22-2019, 03:41 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Updated from Tirerack:

Continental has led the way with the ExtremeContact DWS 06 (and its predecessors), which has established itself as the winter performance benchmark for the category. This tire delivers good acceleration and braking traction, along with surprisingly capable handling around our snow-covered test course. Special attention should also be paid to Michelin for the work they have done with the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. After its predecessor fell short of expectations in winter conditions, Michelin deployed a significant tread compound change for the "plus" version used in this test, and we can confirm it delivers on Michelin's promise of strong snow traction. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ was able to accelerate and brake slightly better than the ExtremeContact DWS 06. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+'s straightforward five-rib tread pattern didn't have quite as much lateral grip as the ExtremeContact DWS 06 with its trademark cross-hatch tread pattern, and consequently displayed greater understeer during cornering.
Source?
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      10-22-2019, 04:33 PM   #42
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      10-22-2019, 04:58 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Hockey4 View Post
Updated from Tirerack:

Continental has led the way with the ExtremeContact DWS 06 (and its predecessors), which has established itself as the winter performance benchmark for the category. This tire delivers good acceleration and braking traction, along with surprisingly capable handling around our snow-covered test course. Special attention should also be paid to Michelin for the work they have done with the Pilot Sport A/S 3+. After its predecessor fell short of expectations in winter conditions, Michelin deployed a significant tread compound change for the "plus" version used in this test, and we can confirm it delivers on Michelin's promise of strong snow traction. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+ was able to accelerate and brake slightly better than the ExtremeContact DWS 06. The Pilot Sport A/S 3+'s straightforward five-rib tread pattern didn't have quite as much lateral grip as the ExtremeContact DWS 06 with its trademark cross-hatch tread pattern, and consequently displayed greater understeer during cornering.
Source?
I have run both tires. DWS06 is a bit better in winter mess but not quite as good in the warm weather months. AS3+ seem to wear better for whatever reason. Neither is a bad option though.
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      10-22-2019, 05:00 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XutvJet View Post
Source?
tirerack, updated with winter

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests...y.jsp?ttid=216
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