[MarkDemma]

OK so we've all seen the 2020 F44 Gran "Coupe" now I'm sure. I know that they will be built on completely different platforms (CLAR vs UKL) but it could give some clues as to what the 2022 G42 2 Series Coupe might look like.

Here's my wild speculations:

• The interior will likely look pretty much identical because ALL BMWs have looked identical lately. (And I'm not a fan of the digital instruments.
• They will probably offer with the sport seats from the GC, which actually look pretty good.
• Expect a bigger grill, probably will be the same size / shape as the F44. (Hoping against all hope they don't go with something comical like the new 4.)
• Looking at the new 3/4 - the 3er is the more conservative while the 4 is the more "expressive" so they may do the same with the 2 / 2 GC. (Hopefully this doesn't mean comical grill.)
• As much as I hate to say it, you'll probably need to get a M2 for I6 and manual. I suspect they'll put the B48 in a M235 with auto.
• They may offer with a hybrid or full electric, but somehow I doubt this. We would have heard about an i2 by now if it was this close.
• There is a possibility they will make the 2er their "token gift" to purists and actually give us the laundry list of stuff we'd like: I6, manual, no hideous grill.

As you can guess, I'm no fan of the giant grill on the 4. My fear is that with all the complaints about the 2 GC looking boring or just like a corolla, they will use their new go to for making a car "exciting" - put a giant grill on it.

It would be nice to know these things so we can plan to buy a 2021 before they "ruin it".

[p912guy]

The way the world is with spy photo's, renders and blogs, and the way BMW does new or updated vehicle launches, you'll have plenty of info and time to decide if you want the last of the "current" version or if you want to wait for the "new" version.

[FlyingScot1050]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

• As much as I hate to say it, you'll probably need to get a M2 for I6 and manual. I suspect they'll put the B48 in a M235 with auto.

This is my biggest fear. With few exceptions (like AMG's forthcoming insane 416hp mill), I have zero emotional draw towards the ubiquitous 2.0T 4 cylinder. That's the engine you get when you want an Accord, damnit! Same applies to the transmission, although I freely admit that's a losing battle and the days of being able to order a stick shift car that doesn't start with M are coming rapidly to a close.

The >4 cyl/stick shift/acceptable-utility-for-a-daily-driver category is pretty much just pony cars and the 2 series now. I occasionally wish I was fine compromising for a 4 cyl automatic, I could save a hell of a lot of money, buy a G70 and still have a great chassis and a stalwart commuter. Where's the fun in that, though?

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot1050

This is my biggest fear. With few exceptions (like AMG's forthcoming insane 416hp mill), I have zero emotional draw towards the ubiquitous 2.0T 4 cylinder. That's the engine you get when you want an Accord, damnit! Same applies to the transmission, although I freely admit that's a losing battle and the days of being able to order a stick shift car that doesn't start with M are coming rapidly to a close.

The >4 cyl/stick shift/acceptable-utility-for-a-daily-driver category is pretty much just pony cars and the 2 series now. I occasionally wish I was fine compromising for a 4 cyl automatic, I could save a hell of a lot of money, buy a G70 and still have a great chassis and a stalwart commuter. Where's the fun in that, though?

Honestly, I'd rather they offer a full electric 2 coupe before I'd get a M235 with the 4 and auto. Have to admit, a M2 with the S58 / manual and no hideous grill would be sweet.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot1050

This is my biggest fear. With few exceptions (like AMG's forthcoming insane 416hp mill), I have zero emotional draw towards the ubiquitous 2.0T 4 cylinder. That's the engine you get when you want an Accord, damnit! Same applies to the transmission, although I freely admit that's a losing battle and the days of being able to order a stick shift car that doesn't start with M are coming rapidly to a close.

The >4 cyl/stick shift/acceptable-utility-for-a-daily-driver category is pretty much just pony cars and the 2 series now. I occasionally wish I was fine compromising for a 4 cyl automatic, I could save a hell of a lot of money, buy a G70 and still have a great chassis and a stalwart commuter. Where's the fun in that, though?

I don't expect to change your (or anyone's) mind, but I think there is much to be said for the 4 cylinder/6MT/rwd combination. I think I first experienced this when I encountered my first 2002 many years ago, and intentionally spec'd my 228i to match that classic set-up. With less weight upfront and the benefit of a strut tower bar and lower control arms from the M3 (Turner Motorsport kit), I have an extremely fun and responsive vehicle. The extra fraction of a second to the next red light/commuting traffic slow-down isn't worth disrupting that formula for me. I abide by the old saying that it's more fun to drive a slower car fast than a faster car slowly...and the difference for the 4 vs. the 6 is to the right of the decimal point. The 4 cylinder/rwd/6MT is a great "sweet spot"! I think we have about one more year to spec out such a car.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I don't expect to change your (or anyone's) mind, but I think there is much to be said for the 4 cylinder/6MT/rwd combination. I think I first experienced this when I encountered my first 2002 many years ago, and intentionally spec'd my 228i to match that classic set-up. With less weight upfront and the benefit of a strut tower bar and lower control arms from the M3 (Turner Motorsport kit), I have an extremely fun and responsive vehicle. The extra fraction of a second to the next red light/commuting traffic slow-down isn't worth disrupting that formula for me. I abide by the old saying that it's more fun to drive a slower car fast than a faster car slowly...and the difference for the 4 vs. the 6 is to the right of the decimal point. The 4 cylinder/rwd/6MT is a great "sweet spot"! I think we have about one more year to spec out such a car.

I had one of the new 330is as a loaner, which has the same chassis / engine that the new 2 would have in the setup you are talking about and although I did appreciate that the handling felt WAY better than the outgoing 3, I do have to say I preferred getting back to my I6. But I get the sentiment, lots of people agree with you. They would have to do more work making the new 2 much lighter tho for this to really work for me. Considering how heavy the new Z4 is I don't see this happening.

[Feddersen]

Wild speculation? Here is mine: There will be no RWD successor to the current 2-series Coupe!

BMW has already announced there will be no cabriolet. This means the 2-coupe would be the only in the lineup and it would make it almost impossible to make money on only one model in a lineup even though it will share parts/platform of the 3/4-series. So now BMW waits for the sales figures of the M235i GC and if they are just slightly satisfactory my prediction is that BMW makes a xDrive Coupe of the F44 like the speculative picture in OP. Maybe with a small upgrade of the engine to make about 326hp and call it M240i

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Feddersen

Wild speculation? Here is mine: There will be no RWD successor to the current 2-series Coupe!

BMW has already announced there will be no cabriolet. This means the 2-coupe would be the only in the lineup and it would make it almost impossible to make money on only one model in a lineup even though it will share parts/platform of the 3/4-series. So now BMW waits for the sales figures of the M235i GC and if they are just slightly satisfactory my prediction is that BMW makes a xDrive Coupe of the F44 like the speculative picture in OP. Maybe with a small upgrade of the engine to make about 326hp and call it M240i

The next gen rwd 2 Series coupe already has a launch date know to the suppliers who will be supporting the Mexican plant. Here are a couple of public articles.

https://mexico-now.com/index.php/art...a-second-model

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/20...of-the-border/

[Feddersen]

I know but things can change and I don't believe they have settled on the final layout of the next 2-series coupe yet if it comes. With a modern production line there is no problem in mixing production of RWD and FWD production. This is fx exactly what they are doing today in Leipzig where they make the 1-series FWD together with the 2-series RWD/xDrive and M2.

[Kevinduma]

I think they will still keep it 230i and M240i as the standard 2 series coupes. The platform for the coupe will be a longitudinal so they couldn't use that higher output B48 anyway unless they decide to do a high performance version of the 30i B48 which I doubt. It's also easier to distinguish with this naming convention to the Gran Coupes 228i/M235i.

[FlyingScot1050]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I don't expect to change your (or anyone's) mind, but I think there is much to be said for the 4 cylinder/6MT/rwd combination. I think I first experienced this when I encountered my first 2002 many years ago, and intentionally spec'd my 228i to match that classic set-up. With less weight upfront and the benefit of a strut tower bar and lower control arms from the M3 (Turner Motorsport kit), I have an extremely fun and responsive vehicle. The extra fraction of a second to the next red light/commuting traffic slow-down isn't worth disrupting that formula for me. I abide by the old saying that it's more fun to drive a slower car fast than a faster car slowly...and the difference for the 4 vs. the 6 is to the right of the decimal point. The 4 cylinder/rwd/6MT is a great "sweet spot"! I think we have about one more year to spec out such a car.

To each their own! I hope my statement didn't come off as me saying the 228i was bad, just that the recipe for the 235i was what got me personally to bite. Honestly for what I do with the car, the 4 cylinder absolutely makes more sense, but buying a manual 2 dr coupe was an emotional decision, not a practical one, and the torque, sound and silky smoothness of the straight six played a significant hand in that! I'd absolutely replace it with another 2er in a few years if such a combination is still available. Everyone I know with a 60+ mile commute dreads being on the road every day, but I still smile every time I thumb the starter

[MarcoZandrini]

Originally Posted by FlyingScot1050

This is my biggest fear. With few exceptions (like AMG's forthcoming insane 416hp mill), I have zero emotional draw towards the ubiquitous 2.0T 4 cylinder. That's the engine you get when you want an Accord, damnit! Same applies to the transmission, although I freely admit that's a losing battle and the days of being able to order a stick shift car that doesn't start with M are coming rapidly to a close.

The >4 cyl/stick shift/acceptable-utility-for-a-daily-driver category is pretty much just pony cars and the 2 series now. I occasionally wish I was fine compromising for a 4 cyl automatic, I could save a hell of a lot of money, buy a G70 and still have a great chassis and a stalwart commuter. Where's the fun in that, though?

I think the 4 banger in an Accord is larger than 2 liters!

[Poochie]

The next generation 2 series coupe will be offered with a RWD but 4 cylinder, auto only.

If the 3 series G20, which is the bread and butter of the BMW non-SUV line-up, wasn't given a manual option, neither will the next generation, low-volume 2 series. It would not be cost-effective to R&D and certify both variants.

The B58 manual will be reserved for the G87 M2 to add some separation between the models, unlike the confusing clusterfvck they are now.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The next generation 2 series coupe will be offered with a RWD but 4 cylinder, auto only.

If the 3 series G20, which is the bread and butter of the BMW non-SUV line-up, wasn't given a manual option, neither will the next generation, low-volume 2 series. It would not be cost-effective to R&D and certify both variants.

The B58 manual will be reserved for the G87 M2 to add some separation between the models, unlike the confusing clusterfvck they are now.

B58 in the M2 not the S58? That would be a helluva car, assuming they don't slap a comical grill on it. (Can you tell I really really hate the 4's grill?)

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by MarkDemma

B58 in the M2 not the S58? That would be a helluva car, assuming they don't slap a comical grill on it. (Can you tell I really really hate the 4's grill?)

I doubt the next M2 will have a S58 and still be within the realm of being "affordable" i.e. within 60k or so.

A high-output variation of the B58 sounds more palatable. Which is not a bad thing; I drove a 2020 M340i with the new B58 and although I hated how huge it felt but that car is a rocket. Hit the gas, hold on and it just blast off.

As far the grille goes, I can't speak on that, I'm not sure what BMW designers are smoking nowadays but based on M235i Grand Coupe, it might have a similar conventional front-end.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by Poochie

I doubt the next M2 will have a S58 and still be within the realm of being "affordable" i.e. within 60k or so.

A high-output variation of the B58 sounds more palatable. Which is not a bad thing; I drove a 2020 M340i with the new B58 and although I hated how huge it felt but that car is a rocket. Hit the gas, hold on and it just blast off.

As far the grille goes, I can't speak on that, I'm not sure what BMW designers are smoking nowadays but based on M235i Grand Coupe, it might have a similar conventional front-end.

If the X3M has the S58, I'm thinking it's almost a guarantee the M2 will have it as well. They will be seeing economies of scale on the S58 by the time the next M2 is here, and it would likely end up costing more to develop another bespoke version of the B58 instead. I also still think the base M2 will remain affordable because it's not meant to be a sales volume leader like the 3-series and X3/X5 or a practical choice that most families can justify. They will need to keep the entry price low to get adequate sales and then bank on it being a "gateway drug" to the BMW world, so when wifey wants a new SUV every 2-3 years, you'll head to the BMW dealership first. Just my 2 cents.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by CP911

If the X3M has the S58, I'm thinking it's almost a guarantee the M2 will have it as well. They will be seeing economies of scale on the S58 by the time the next M2 is here, and it would likely end up costing more to develop another bespoke version of the B58 instead. I also still think the base M2 will remain affordable because it's not meant to be a sales volume leader like the 3-series and X3/X5 or a practical choice that most families can justify. They will need to keep the entry price low to get adequate sales and then bank on it being a "gateway drug" to the BMW world, so when wifey wants a new SUV every 2-3 years, you'll head to the BMW dealership first. Just my 2 cents.

The X3M starts at 70k, without options, so yea, it has can be afford an S58 platform.

The next M2 will be made in Mexico to save a buck, I highly doubt it would have a S58 and still be within 60k, which is the entry-level demographic they're shootings for.

Your guess is as good as mines until either one can confirm it but if I was a betting man, my money would be on a tuned B58 for the next M2. Let's leave it at that.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The X3M starts at 70k, without options, so yea, it has can be afford an S58 platform.

The next M2 will be made in Mexico to save a buck, I highly doubt it would have a S58 and still be within 60k, which is the entry-level demographic they're shootings for.

Your guess is as good as mines until either one can confirm it but if I was a betting man, my money would be on a tuned B58 for the next M2. Let's leave it at that.

I don't mean to be... "that guy," but I can't be the only one who likes their German car to be built in, well... Germany, at least for M cars that is.

I'm still skeptical on the quality of the new Mexico plant vs that of Spartanburg or any of the Euro Plants.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by joshuastein55

I don't mean to be... "that guy," but I can't be the only one who likes their German car to be built in, well... Germany, at least for M cars that is.

I'm still skeptical on the quality of the new Mexico plant vs that of Spartanburg or any of the Euro Plants.

My Spartanburg built Z4M was at least as good quality as the 4 other BMWs we have had (which have all been good) Our 2003 1.8T VW Jetta Wagon built in Germany had a lot more problems than the same model year sedan that was built in Mexico that a friend of ours had. The current 2016 VW Golf R we have that was built in Germany is indistinguishable in quality and reliability from the 2015 Golf TSI built in Mexico that another friend of ours has.

I would say the age of the robots and infrastructure in the factory has more to do with the quality of a given car model than where it is built.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by aerobod

I would say the age of the robots and infrastructure in the factory has more to do with the quality of a given car model than where it is built.

Exactly correct! The building and robotics don't know where they are. Unless one holds unfortunate views on one ethnicity over another for a labor force, the quality is most directly related to the skill and thoroughness with which the manufacturer (from their HQ in the home country) has developed/selected competent managers who launch the remote plant. For a long time, MB found that their South African plant was actually producing higher quality vehicles (as determined by audit) than those from Germany. At one point (not sure if still true), Honda Marysville Accords were tracking a superior quality assessment to those from Japan. Plant management and the quality of the supply base is the key...not the geography.

[MarkDemma]

Originally Posted by Poochie

The X3M starts at 70k, without options, so yea, it has can be afford an S58 platform.

The next M2 will be made in Mexico to save a buck, I highly doubt it would have a S58 and still be within 60k, which is the entry-level demographic they're shootings for.

Your guess is as good as mines until either one can confirm it but if I was a betting man, my money would be on a tuned B58 for the next M2. Let's leave it at that.

So the current M2 utilizes the "M" engine (S55) from the generation available at the time which was being used in the M3/4 and X3M. I don't see any reason that the next generation wouldn't also share engines across that range (2,3,4) as well. Makes more sense with economies of scale to put the same engine in all of them than to continue the S55 going (which they may not be able to for emissions / fuel economy) or to develop a variant of the B58 at extra cost.

I think / hope they'll sell the M2 with the S58 as the purist / person concerned with performance and the M4 for the show off types that actually like that giant grill.

[kz1000]

If the next 2 has those digital gauges I'm out.