[Lynx_Rufus]

Interesting - a real split response on this one. Mine is an xDrive with MPSS on a staggered stock setup. No steering issues at all. Nicely responsive, no annoying dead spot on center. I realize that steering feel is a very subjective thing, but I'm puzzled as to what's causing the disparity - wheels & tires?, software?, quality issues?


It would be interesting to drive one that is believed to have steering issues and one that doesn't side-by-side. Perhaps a couple of the members who live close to one another could do that.

[XutvJet]

That M240 in the review video is on a very crappy square 225/40R18 runflat setup. That has a lot to do with their steering issue plus they're driving in spring in Canada (cold weather, cold roads).

[TajoMan]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

That M240 in the review video is on a very crappy square 225/40R18 runflat setup. That has a lot to do with their steering issue plus they're driving in spring in Canada (cold weather, cold roads).

They are in fact snow tires.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

They are in fact snow tires.

Silly Canadian auto reviewers.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by TajoMan

They are in fact snow tires.

Definitely a 225/40R18 Extra Load Continental winter tyre (from what is visible in some video frames), looks to be the TS830P based on the outer tread block pattern, but couldn’t find a frame that showed all sidewall info clearly enough.

So, pretty imprecise from a handling perspective and not great for launch, braking or cornering grip compared with a good summer tyre.

[DrivingPassion]

Originally Posted by p912guy

I guess I am lucky I don't have prior BMW experience before my M235i ...

Don't ever touch an E46 330i or 328i ... you'd start puking when you return to your M235i steering.

The E46 steering is what defined a BMW was.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by DrivingPassion

Don't ever touch an E46 330i or 328i ... you'd start puking when you return to your M235i steering.

The E46 steering is what defined a BMW was.

Oh please, you can maneuver the steering in a 360 degree turn, even do donuts with just your pinky finger, in a Mini or 235i with EPS, all without breaking a nail. It's incredible smooth, quick and precise.

The added heft in my 135i with hydraulic steering was ok. It was even artificially heavier than the heft to my friend's E92 335i but it didn't feel "sportier" than my EPS 235i, just heavier.

I was very impress with how effortless and quick the 235i steering was. The trade off over the unnecessary heft of the 135i wasn't a big deal and was actually appreciated. Plus EPS absorbs irregularities in the tarmac and keeps the steering wheel focus unlike hydraulic feels like a Go-Kart, on bad rails, it constantly needs readjusting, to keep tracking strait.

You guys that are ragging EPS in the 240i are clouded by nostalgia for an archaic technology and can't appreciate the progress and benefits of an EPS over hydraulic.

[MacFactor66]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You're not really missing anything. I've owned about 14 BMW's since 2001 - and I'm currently on my second ///M4 - and I don't really know what the nostalgia is all about. I've hopped back into E46's and didn't miss anything about it. When I first bought my '15 ///M4, I still had access to my exes '11 128i M-Sport we purchased while together. I jumped between the two cars and much preferred the steering of my ///M4. I tried to like the older car's steering and I tried to find what all of the rave was about, but I just didn't find it to be that great. Low speed turning in the drive-thru put the nail in the coffin. I'll take the new steering any day of the week.

FWIW, I have never experienced the play in the steering wheel while at dead center that other people have mentioned. My F30 335i ///M Sport and both of my F82 ///M4's have felt and performed flawlessly.

Steering feel is totally subjective but I have to disagree with you on the 128i m-sport. That is one of the best racks I have ever driven. My 240i's rack is good but there was something very special about that 128i.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Poochie

Plus ESP absorbs irregularities in the tarmac and keeps the steering wheel focus unlike hydraulic feels like a Go-Kart, on bad rails, it constantly needs readjusting, to keep tracking strait.

I think this twitchiness and steering wheel bump and pull on certain road surfaces is the "feedback" people love about non-electric assist steering. It get it. I grew up driving in the late 1980s and 1990s so all cars had the "good" steering. y 1990 CRX Si had manual steering.

With that said, I know exactly what the front end on my M235 is doing especially with the 245s up front. When you're really pushing it, the front end changes and feels quite good. Sure, it's not like my old CRX, but this is a different type of car. When I build a turbo NB Miata, it will be full of steering feel and response, but won't be something I want to go more than a couple hundred miles in.

[Poochie]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I think this twitchiness and steering wheel bump and pull on certain road surfaces is the "feedback" people love about non-electric assist steering. It get it. I grew up driving in the late 1980s and 1990s so all cars had the "good" steering. y 1990 CRX Si had manual steering.

With that said, I know exactly what the front end on my M235 is doing especially with the 245s up front. When you're really pushing it, the front end changes and feels quite good. Sure, it's not like my old CRX, but this is a different type of car. When I build a turbo NB Miata, it will be full of steering feel and response, but won't be something I want to go more than a couple hundred miles in.

I grew up on Hondas and Acuras also, I had an Integra Type R and RSX Type S, which I love to death, so I get the tactile steering feedback some folks are referring to but EPS is not all that bad.

The exaggeration is what I can't stand; yes, there is less feedback but EPS also incredibly more smoother and focus, instead of being jittery over bad roads. Can't anyone see the advantage over the alternative.

I don't have a problem with folks expressing their desire for one over the other but anyone reading this thread for feedback on EPS is going be mislead into believing it's atrocious, which is furthest from the truth. It's just an objectively better way of implementing a more efficient technology.

[DistantTea]

This thread seemed to run away on it's own. My steering literally has an inch of wiggle play at center. That's what causes the floatiness feeling on the highway because you can't just hold the wheel and make small adjustment. Every steering adjustment from side to side requires significant wheel travel regardless of how tiny the input needs to be. If that is caused by tire alignment or type that would be a new one to me... especially considering the wiggle zone is still there when the car is parked and turned off.

[SizzlerWA]

I don't feel any wiggle zone in my 2017 M240 XDrive. It doesn't feel as precise as my old 2004 330i ZHP, but no wiggle zone.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

This thread seemed to run away on it's own. My steering literally has an inch of wiggle play at center. That's what causes the floatiness feeling on the highway because you can't just hold the wheel and make small adjustment. Every steering adjustment from side to side requires significant wheel travel regardless of how tiny the input needs to be. If that is caused by tire alignment or type that would be a new one to me... especially considering the wiggle zone is still there when the car is parked and turned off.

I think it is worth having the alignment checked. I believe the major effect of the LCA swap I described above was the +1 degree of negative camber. I didn't feel I had as much of an on-center dead spot as you describe, but I did notice and did not care for it either. The LCAs eliminated it. I wonder if some adjustment to alignment, or if your car has beyond-spec positive camber, could resolve this for you? Might be worth a conversation with the dealership SA or technician.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

This thread seemed to run away on it's own. My steering literally has an inch of wiggle play at center. That's what causes the floatiness feeling on the highway because you can't just hold the wheel and make small adjustment. Every steering adjustment from side to side requires significant wheel travel regardless of how tiny the input needs to be. If that is caused by tire alignment or type that would be a new one to me... especially considering the wiggle zone is still there when the car is parked and turned off.

I think from other people's experience that is not the same as your experience, it sounds as though you have a problem that is not normal, either damaged suspension, faulty rack, need for re-calibration or unsuitable tyres for precise steering (as has been confirmed for the Straight Pipes test drive).

From a summer performance tyre perspective, "floatiness" at speed on the highway could also be tramlining, the Michelin PSS tyres can tramline quite a bit, This is nothing to do with the steering precision and is easy to deal with once you don't overcorrect when the tyre climbs a rut, but just hold a straight line and let the tyre load and unload at will.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by MacFactor66

Steering feel is totally subjective but I have to disagree with you on the 128i m-sport. That is one of the best racks I have ever driven. My 240i's rack is good but there was something very special about that 128i.

You're definitely entitled to that. I just didn't personally prefer it, but we all have different tactile requirements, different hands, different eyes, different.......everything, so there are bound to be subjective preferences that differ from others.

[Unicorn123]

My two cents worth...

I have to agree with Bod, Stick and Poochie on this one. Tea, I have to believe there is something awry with your steering / alignment / tire setup or a pothole impaired suspension component if you have that much play in your steering. It would be worth having it checked out; I expect I would feel the same way if I had the wiggly worm feel in my steering wheel.

As an Executive Elite member of National Car Rental, I can attest to the fact that driving even the fine premium cars (sarcasm intended, but the cars are quite serviceable) provided by National provides a great contrast to the BMW with EPS. Although EPS is different, it is precise and after putting 15K on my M235 in 7 months, I know what the front end is doing and the car goes exactly where I intend. Inputs need to be smooth and direct, honestly, EPS reminds me of hovering exercises in a helicopter; it requires subtle and precise movement of the cyclic to ensure that you hold steady. Perhaps it does not emulate the best EPS setups when compared to hydraulic PS, but it seems to work pretty darn well. EPS is here to stay.

Of course, I also swore I'd never have a car with an automatic transmission (my M235 is my first ever) but I will say that today's technology is quite amazing and my left foot braking skills are improving, although I still shove my left foot to the floor every time I get into my car! I guess my point here is that you can teach an old dog new tricks and technology evolves. If it didn't, we'd all be driving cars with a 3 on the tree, ignition advance controls on the steering wheel hub, carburetors and wooden wheels...

[Poochie]

You learn something new everyday.

Apparently, in addition to VSS, which actively reduces the steering ration in the 235/240, BMW also implemented addition measures to gives the driver a sort of visceral feedback of the road..

A for effort, BMW..

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...ring4/EEpdEE0c

[Skyracer]

Late comer to this thread, but here goes.

To the OP: you are not imagining things. I have a real pet peeve with electrically assisted steering racks. They are almost all dreadful. In fact, the only car I have driven that I would rate as having an acceptable EPAS is the 991 GT3.

The m240i is particuarly bad. IMO the EPAS almost ruins what is otherwise a decent car. It is horribly over assisted, and like most of these systems suffers from a total lack of off centre feel/resistance, so that it is annoyingly difficult to keep a straight course on the highway, and even more difficult to discern what exactly the front tires are doing.

My X5M is better, but that is mainly because of the addition of artificial weighting, and certainly it has precious little more of any real 'feel'.

Here's a real insult to BMW: I drove a Dodge Ram recently with EPAS and I found it miles better than the system on the m240i.

To the others who have posted, yes steering feel is a subjective thing, but I honestly can't comprehend those who are defending EPAS. My wife likes the steering on her m240xi and says she prefers not to feel the road through the steering wheel. I suppose there are a lot of customers like her, so that there is no real impetus for BMW to improve the tuning of their EPAS.

Interesting article from R&T addresses the subject and gives a possible, technical explanation for the "qualities" of EPAS:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...hing-you-want/

[XutvJet]

Skyracer - What tires are on your M240x?

[msej449]

Try driving a Lotus Elise or a Caterham, then you'll really know what good steering is. I imagine that the same applies to Formula 2000 or similar track-only cars. All with no power assistance at all. On a scale of 1-10 with the Elise/Caterham/track car at 10 I'd say yes, the M235i/M240i is 5 but I'd only rate the Porsche Carerra S4 I had at 7 and an M I tried at 6.5 So it always makes me smile when people criticise the M-Lite steering: yes, it's not terrific and not as good as an M or Porsche etc. but it's fine for a sporty road car.

[morphomeman]

You want good direct steering, ride a bicycle!
Of course, the road feel depends on the tires you have on your bicycle and those dreadful shocks on the mountain bikes numb everything.
And while you are at it, make sure you are on a track bike with no free wheeling and one gear.
Now that is a direct experience, one with the road!
Fuggetabaht the Caterham, plus you will lose weight.

[Skyracer]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Skyracer - What tires are on your M240x?

Michelin PSS. Replaced the OEM Pirellis at about 1/2 tread life (car will be returned with those at end of lease). Didn't find any real improvement in the steering with the PSS, unfortunately.