12-17-2022, 09:47 AM | #309 | |
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One is a revolution in service that requires rockets to be launched, satellites to orbit in the right spots, connectivity from earth to them and back. The other one is a car. A simple, body-on-frame economy vehicle. I think that says more (negative) about FoMoCo than Starlink… |
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12-17-2022, 10:19 AM | #310 | |
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So yeah, he's quite busy with installs.
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12-17-2022, 12:11 PM | #312 | |
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Source : google Market Summary > General Motors Company 36.15 USD -25.02 (-40.90%)year to date -2.49 (-6.44%)past month −1.46 (3.88%)today Market Summary > Tesla Inc 150.23 USD -249.70 (-62.44%)year to date -32.94 (-17.98%)past month −7.44 (4.72%)today |
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12-17-2022, 12:35 PM | #313 | ||
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12-17-2022, 12:55 PM | #314 | |
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Their only recent success story is the Y, and that surely saved the company, but it too will age faster than they can manage. Competition will eat their lunch on that. I wish them luck, they have helped move the EV evolution forward. Last edited by chad86tsi; 12-17-2022 at 01:06 PM.. |
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12-17-2022, 01:03 PM | #315 | |
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12-17-2022, 01:21 PM | #316 | |
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12-17-2022, 06:35 PM | #317 | |
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I’m disagreeing Tesla’s stock is down due to a “single handed” CEO… I’m showing most, if not all, stocks are down. Proves nothing, has no room in the conversation, is related to nothing… |
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12-17-2022, 06:56 PM | #318 | ||
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12-17-2022, 08:23 PM | #319 | |
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P/E ratio isn’t everything either, many things influence price, and more often then not, it is market/sector performance as a whole, not an individual company performance, that ultimately weighs the most on a large company stock like Tesla, Ford, or GM. It makes sense they would all be down, they are all equally impacted by rising interest rates. That said, I still agree with your assessment. If we want to talk about the health of the company or really any company, look at it’s finances, not the stock prices. Stock prices tend to be overreactive to company performance both on the negative and positive side until it’s already obvious if the company is in a boom or bust situation. On the subject of Twitter, Tesla is acutely exposed to Twitter’s performance (which largely effects Musk’s debt situation). He has been selling more and more Tesla stock, effectively decreasing Tesla’s equity on their balance sheet by several billion at a time. There is also talk that Musk may use Tesla margin loans to help pay down the debt. Overall, it isn’t a huge concern now, BUT, if Twitter were to really start failing (which is possible if they continue to lose advertising and/or get sued, especially by the EU), Musk would hurt, and Musk’s best way to get out of the debt would be in some way to collateralize or pay with more Tesla equity/loans, which hurts Tesla’s balance sheet. This affects the company’s ability to be as flexible as possible and to continue to grow. |
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12-17-2022, 08:39 PM | #320 | |
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12-17-2022, 08:56 PM | #321 | ||
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If you go back to post #310, this is where the "Elon factor" entered the conversation, and is what I'm replying to. GM and other brands have all fallen, Tesla has fallen 35% more than GM this year, and 50% more than many other segment leaders, despite being a leader in their own sector. If it's not the financials, or their market position (they seem to be a leader), it might just be something else, like the Elon factor. That they also have inventory stacking up and the market has soured on high end EV's seems to be double-trouble for them. The elon factor has being a liability lately, and the market is putting a lot of pressure on the bottom line. Investors seem to have noticed this. Many Auto manufacturers are facing difficult financials, but most don't have a sketchy CEO situation and a bunch of lawsuits going on at the same time. Those that don't will likely recover better/sooner. Last edited by chad86tsi; 12-17-2022 at 09:02 PM.. |
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12-19-2022, 01:03 PM | #323 |
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Tesla isn't going anywhere. Their profit margin per vehicle is unmatched and only going to get better.
For example here is Q3 2022 numbers vs Toyota(ice/phev/bev) Toyota: * 2,625 thousand sales * $3,342 billion overall net profit * $1,273 profit per vehicle Tesla: * 344 thousand sales * $3,292 billion overall net profit * $9,754 profit per vehicle That's a near 9x profit per vehicle for Tesla. It gets even worse when you start singling out just the competitor's EVs. Ford is struggling to make their EVs return a profit. Ford has raised the price of Lightning three times, it is now $16,000 or 40% more than original launch price. They are raising prices in such large chunks because they aren't making sh*t on their EVs. ICE sales are driving their profits and that goes for all legacy automakers. They could not survive on EV sales alone right now. Ford CFO stated in June they were now net negtive on MachE production due to inflation. MachE cost $25k more to produce than a Ford Edge, yet the two vehicles msrp are less than $10k apart. Last edited by M3WC; 12-19-2022 at 01:15 PM.. |
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12-19-2022, 01:56 PM | #324 | |
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12-19-2022, 05:18 PM | #325 | |
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of course they'll make more profit per unit due to cost cutting till customers realize it for what they are a prestige item when none around (those days are gone) and an ultra generic item when everyone getting one and are driven as taxis etc. |
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12-23-2022, 12:52 PM | #326 | |
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Google stock price check: 124.89 USD -28.87 (-18.76%)past 5 days -274.89 (-68.74%)year to date I went to their website to check stock because I read they are now offering $7500 off 3's and Y's, plus 10K supercharge miles. Confirmed they are. Looked at the S inventory, still extremely bloated. I went at the main webpage to build my own S so I could deduce the discounts now offered on those compared to normal prices, "build your own" now links directly to the existing inventory. The site won't even let you build your own anymore, only option is to buy one on the lot I know they have an end of year push they always do, but this year they must also have an inventory problem. There are currently 50 S's within 200 miles of me, normal inventory level is 2-4. Prices appear highly discounted, but since I can't look at the normal prices anymore, I can't be sure how much. |
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12-23-2022, 01:04 PM | #327 | |||
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Last edited by M3WC; 12-23-2022 at 01:12 PM.. |
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12-23-2022, 01:11 PM | #328 | |
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https://www.forbes.com/sites/dereksa...h=730f3f973a84 It’s the third-worst day for Tesla stock of 2022, sending the company’s market capitalization to $393 billion, nearly 70% off of its $1.2 trillion mark in January. They are down $807 billion since January, that's 8/10's of a trillion US dollars of lost value. With that much money, you could probably buy the top 5 other auto manufactures outright based on market cap. |
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12-23-2022, 01:13 PM | #329 | |
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Mine doesn't, tried on 2 different computers.
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The $7500 credit only applies to cars under $55,000, and SUV's under $80,000. That doesn't cover most Teslas, and thus isn't the only reason for their discount. |
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12-23-2022, 01:23 PM | #330 | |
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They still are one of the largest marketcaps in the sector, building vehicles with 9x more profit margin per car than Toyota(including ICE). They can afford to do end of year discount to hit unit sales targets. The auto sector got annihilated this year and it will be worse next year. |
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