BMW M2 engine of choice poll |
View Poll Results: What is your engine of choice for the upcoming M2? | |||
i4, and I won't buy an M2 otherwise | 14 | 2.75% | |
I4, but I don't really care either way and I would consider an M2 regardless | 70 | 13.73% | |
I6, but I don't really care either way and I would consider an M2 regardless | 124 | 24.31% | |
I6 only for me. I ain't buying an M2 with anything else | 302 | 59.22% | |
Voters: 510. You may not vote on this poll |
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05-02-2013, 03:51 PM | #133 |
TIM YOYO
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Threads like this really bring out the wingnuts. There's so much crazy talk in here it hurts my brain.
1) The E30 M3 with an S14 engine was a dream of a car. Unfortunately, it's never coming back. Repeat that aloud: The E30 M3 is never coming back. The E30 M3 weighed just over 2800 lbs. Between airbags, side-impact protection, crumple zones, passenger safety zones, power electric seats, sound deadening, dual-zone climate control systems, and infotainment systems with huge screens and computers to drive them, we won't see the south side of 3000 lbs out of a BMW until they start using composites *heavily*. That's a ways off, so don't count on it for the M2. Having said that, if you want a 2800-2900 lb sporty car powered by a naturally aspirated four-cylinder, you can get one today! It's called a Subaru BRZ or Scion FRS. Go drive one and get back to us. I have a feeling you'll still be waiting for the M2. It's really easy to wax nostalgic when history is so distant. The E30 M3 was an incredible car in its day, but 2) Another thing that's gone for good is the small displacement, high-revving, naturally aspirated engine. Even Porsche is said to be considering a turbo 4 for the Caymen/Boxter on the high end. In order to meet corporate fleet fuel economy standards, auto makers are going to have to sell *more* turbocharged cars, not less. If you find yourself wishing for some magical 120 HP/liter, naturally aspirated wonder-engine, then go ahead and cry yourself to sleep now. You have a much better chance of dreaming about one than you do seeing one in the M2. Sorry to be such a dream-smasher, but you sound like a crazy old man spouting about the good ol' days of 8k RPM redlines. Just stop. They're gone. We're all gonna miss them.
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05-02-2013, 03:54 PM | #134 |
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BMW made hard with putting an I6 in the new M3/4 I have a feeling the M2 will not have an I6. I would guess a TTI4 with ~355HP
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05-02-2013, 05:39 PM | #136 | |
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And everyone that says turbo lag is gone is full of crap. MUCH better than it used to be, but nowhere near a good NA engine. It feels like a rising wave now instead of an instant jolt. |
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05-03-2013, 12:44 AM | #137 |
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Higher engine displacement(3.0L I6) and less turbo over pressure = little lag and more torque on low rpm´s. Low engine displacement(2.0L I4) and more turbo pressure=more lag and less torque.
Intresting to see how laggy is AMG A45 2.0l turbo engine. |
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05-03-2013, 07:30 AM | #138 |
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If (and this is still a big if) BMW is planning to use electrically assisted turbocharging for the S55, then we could possibly expect the same treatment for an S20 or S48. This would address the lag concerns.
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05-03-2013, 09:17 AM | #139 |
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I am guessing the M2 will be along the lines of the 1M. It will have an N55 engine with a unique tune and be rated at ~350 hp (but will probably output 380-400hp). It will also feature the suspension, steering column, and differential from the M4 and chassis reinforcement in the 2 series body.
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05-03-2013, 09:24 AM | #140 |
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The 1M used the N54 because it was the only engine available on the timeline they were working within. The project was approved late in the E8x lifecycle and needed to be brought to market in two years or so. The M2 will enjoy a normal development cycle and will almost surely receive an M-specific engine. That is to say that you can bet on either S20, S48, S55 or S68.
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05-03-2013, 10:24 AM | #142 | |
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05-03-2013, 01:08 PM | #143 | |
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M235i - 315 hp I6 N55 M3/4 - 450 hp I6 S55 It just doesn't make sense from a marketing standpoint to slot an I4 between the N55 M235i and the M3/4 S55. Also, I don't believe there is a financial case to be made for developing a third turbo charged I6 engine for one car (design, multiple country emissions testing and certification, etc.). All M cars are relatively small volume cars. |
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05-03-2013, 01:45 PM | #144 | |
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Or you could just toss in a detuned version of the S55 and call it a day. |
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05-03-2013, 02:25 PM | #145 | ||
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It's faster than my n54 335i stock for stock. The gearing in the new tranny is what makes the difference. You might be surprised if you ran the numbers on acceleration of the new 328i vs the s14b23. That 328 weighs a hell of a lot more but also has a hell of a lot more torque <4500 rpm where the s14 can finally get out if its own way. I've owned all the cars listed here. There are classics that are special and new cars that are special. You can't compare Jim Brown to Adrian Petersen. Same position different era. The ///M2 will be special. The only ///M car that wasn't was our E36 332is Mtechnik. T |
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05-03-2013, 02:33 PM | #146 | |||
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MY2015+ 335/435/535/640/740/etc: ~340hp hp I6 B68 Also, don't be surprised if the S55 doesn't hit 450hp in non-ZCP form. Quote:
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Finally, if we are really just trying to leverage economies of scale, then an N63 powered M3/M4/X3M/X4M/etc would make more sense than developing an S55. How about an N74 powered M5/M6/X5M/X6M? It fits in there just fine you know? But there are other concerns that make the I6 the better choice for the midsize Ms and the V8 the better choice for the full size Ms. Same thing applies here for an I4 although those concerns may not be the same (packaging is not an obstacle in this case). If the M135i/M235i weren't here today (and perhaps we had an "N20S" powered 130iM/230iM coming instead, suppose) there would be little doubt about the chance for a four cylinder M2. My thinking on this is that M Division has some very unique features coming for the M3/M4 that are going to make people think about performance in a completely different light. That's just a hunch. But if I am right, then I think the true potential of a smaller, lighter engine will become a very saleable point for all future M vehicles from that point forward, including the M2. |
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05-03-2013, 04:02 PM | #147 | |
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From a pure engineering/technical standpoint, the fact remains that it's easier to squeeze out more power with forced induction. It's the same reason why a turbo engine is always more efficient than a comparable NA engine stock for stock. At the height of the last turbo era in F1 in the 80's when they were still allowed to run unrestricted boost, it wasn't unusual to see 1200-1400 bhp (depending on boost) in qualifying trim from only 1.5 liters. That's 800+ bhp/liter. By contrast, the current 2.4 liter NA V8 pumps out approximately 750 bhp, which is only about 313 bhp/liter. Of course you can't compare a race engine to a production engine that needs to last years and thousands of miles with good MPG, but knowing what's possible and what's been done in the racing world, I suppose I do get a bit jaded and not easily impressed... I personally would still prefer a high-revving NA engine for the M2, but in this day and age of greater fuel efficiency and ever tighter emission regulations, that's most likely a pipedream. Heck, even F1 will be returning to turbo engines starting next year. I have no doubt BMW will put a boosted motor in the M2, but whether it will be an I4 or an I6 remains to be seen. Last edited by M12Power; 05-03-2013 at 04:07 PM.. |
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05-03-2013, 04:53 PM | #148 | ||
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M5/M6/M6GC/X5M/X6M all have variants of the S63. The S63 is heavily based on the N63 and it is used in 5 different models that essentially spread out the development costs. What other models would a M2 engine be used in except for maybe a M2GC (maybe a Z2M)? Quote:
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05-03-2013, 05:09 PM | #149 | |||
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05-03-2013, 05:23 PM | #150 | ||||
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05-03-2013, 09:43 PM | #151 |
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I6 all the way. Doesn't make sense that the 1M was an I6 and not the M2, they need to just build on that. Just do a slightly modded n55 or whatever.
Oh god yes please. You and I sir are thinking alike, I6 around 340-360hp . Oh I can't wait, my lease is up exactly 2 years from now and I will be doing a European delivery on an m2. This m model has me seriously excited and its something I'm really really looking forward to, more so then the M3/4
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05-03-2013, 09:53 PM | #152 | |
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05-03-2013, 10:01 PM | #153 |
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I never said, or even implied, Porsche was giving up on NA engines altogether. I expect that the GT3 will probably be the last Porsche to go forced-induction, but it won't be naturally aspirated for long. It may not go turbo, but Porsche is investing heavily in all sorts of exotic technology that it will eventually start packaging in its road cars.
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05-03-2013, 10:07 PM | #154 | |
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Yes I realize how unfair that comparison is when you consider the dual-inlet geometry turbos and more advanced fuel injection used on modern BMW engines, but there are limits imposed by physics. When you start pushing 300+ HP out of a 2 liter I4, I become deeply suspect. I'd love to be proven wrong, but I've really been looking forward to the M2, so I'm not going to cut them any slack if they do go with the turbo I4. It had better be spectacular, and any hint of a laggy turbo character just isn't going to fly with me.
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