Car & Driver Reviews M235i with Automatic (0-60 in 4.3 and Quarter Mile in 12.9) |
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06-06-2014, 05:42 AM | #112 |
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"Do you think the 235 is quicker than the 2008 M roadster?" Seat of pants says no, but I just got through my 1200 break in period and have not really hit the 235 hard. M Roadster is way smaller inside and as you drive, fun car, but too many compromises as a dd for me, plus too low (entering and exiting for me became an issue.
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06-06-2014, 06:59 AM | #113 | |
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0-60: 3.9s 0-100: 9.4 12.4@114 Noticeable faster than the M235 |
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06-06-2014, 08:14 AM | #114 | |
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Mag racing the M3 and the M235i is kind of pointless. In terms of performance (0-60, 1/4, skidpad, etc), the M235i is close enough that the cars are in the same class. The differences between the two only become apparent when you drive them. The cars handle a little differently. The M235i handles a little more like a gran tourer, and the M3 handles more like a track car. I am NOT saying that the M3 is a track car. I'm only using the two points of references -- GT and track car -- as a means to express the relative differences; which are small. Anyone who owns an M3 owes it to themselves to go drive the M235i. It's really a spectacular car. No price qualification necessary. The E92 M3 is a spectacular car as well, but for faintly different reasons.
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06-06-2014, 09:27 AM | #115 |
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Pay attention to the model designation and my past car.
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06-07-2014, 02:56 AM | #116 | |
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06-07-2014, 08:31 AM | #118 | |
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And this. |
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06-09-2014, 10:43 AM | #119 |
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Hi all - this is my first post - though been lurking for many months and I've already determined that an M235 (or possibly an M2...we'll see...) will be my next car. And it will definitely be via Euro Delivery.
Anyway - been following this thread...and while I understand that the 235 is not a "true" M - and understand the distinction....its clearly a worthy performance BMW in every sense and it certainly fills a needed niche for those of us interested in a performance car that's not a huge grand tourer like the 3/4 series has become and not a more or less track focused car like the M3/4 really are. Its relatively small and nimble with great power and some serious mod potential. Who can complain really. And the performance numbers and various reviews (C/D inflationary statistics understood) really makes the case. It will still be a few years (most likely) before I get one - but I'll be following the car closely in the meanwhile & that's just how I roll. As for the "M" designation...(for what is truly not exactly an "M" car in the full sense) - well this is really nothing new. In 2004 I (Euro Delivery) purchased (and still own) a 330i ZHP 4 door sedan MT - called "performance package" here in the states. But the very same exact model was called the "M-Sport" in Europe. Anyway - those familiar with BMW understand the difference...but in the end what does it matter - a great car is a great car - and the 330i ZHP was - and still is a fantastic driving car that I will drive and enjoy for many years to come. As it is though it is pretty much my slowest or near such car (though it is not slow by any means)...and its actually my wife's daily driver. I daily drive (mostly now) a 2012 Volkswagen GTI with some very serious performance mods (engine & handling etc) - 420hp/~400lb/ft torque - as well as old (unreliable...but quite fun) 2001 Audi S4 Avant (also heavily modded) with around 450hp/450torque. Both of these vehicles are in the same performance league as the M235...if not a little stronger - depending on the specific performance aspects being considered. I also own an all original 1964 1/2 289 4 barrel Mustang Convertible (that runs great but may or may not be faster than our BMW). Anyway hello all and glad I finally signed up and I'm stoked about the 235 (regardless of what anyone calls it...) Last edited by Winoman; 06-09-2014 at 10:49 AM.. |
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06-09-2014, 01:08 PM | #120 | |
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Yet again proving that the last thing real enthusiasts care about is the badge.
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06-14-2014, 04:47 PM | #121 |
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Don't know if this has been posted, but I came I across this video on YouTube. Guy says it's stock. Impressive 12.803!!
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06-14-2014, 07:10 PM | #122 | |
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That was a good run
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06-15-2014, 04:57 PM | #123 |
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That's a great car -- 4.3 is super-car territory. Amazing!!!
And I don't see the point to argue if it's a true "M" car....4.3 is 4.3 whatever you call it. Corvettes look out!! I'm anxious to see a review of the MT. As the article states...regardless of any loss in performance the MT may have, the MT is the one to have! I agree. Great car!!!! Good job BMW regardless of the nay-sayers!
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06-15-2014, 05:05 PM | #124 |
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06-15-2014, 05:12 PM | #125 |
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I know!!! Still in shock on the 12.8!! I wrote to him on YouTube and he says he believes the m235 can do better. Soon to be getting jb4 and down pipe. Be nice to see those numbers too.
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06-15-2014, 05:24 PM | #126 |
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I'm really curious what it will do if it had a similar setup as mine. The car is definitely fast though!
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06-15-2014, 07:36 PM | #127 | |
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The 1 and now the 2 really shouldn't be this heavy for their size. The 335i AT is listed at 3555lbs only 20lbs heavier than the M235i AT, which is listed on the BMW site at 3535lbs. The 328i AT is listed at 3410lbs. It's lighter than the M235i. Granted that's a base 328i, but it's a 4 door sedan regardless. 228i AT is listed at 3300lbs. The base M235i is 235lbs heavier than the base 228i. The base 335i is 145lbs heavier than the base 328i. |
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06-15-2014, 07:40 PM | #128 | |
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Acceleration capability is one thing, over all performance includes accelerating, stopping, turning, and how all that is balanced. If the M235i really has 100% of the performance of the E92 M3 in all those areas, then that is truly amazing. |
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06-15-2014, 07:51 PM | #129 | |
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Dyno's show that the engines actually put out what they should and a bit more. Conclusion by the pro's who know and test these things is that BMW engines are not "under rated", just properly rated. When BMW rates an engines power then you'll get that power as a minimum, and most likely you'll get a bit more. That's unlike other car makers who rate and claim power ratings that didn't come from the minimum but from the maximum engine, and the buyer will likely not get that power. Plus, don't forget what the ZF 8AT does for the acceleration. With 8 gears you can have shorter gearing or quicker acceleration, and couple that with lighting quick shifts, you get 0-60, 0-100, and 1/4 mile times that belie the power ratings and listed weight. BMW does very well there and we drives of BMW's reap the benefits and rewards. |
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06-15-2014, 08:20 PM | #130 |
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[QUOTE=speeddeacon;16067933
...... But the ZF 8 speed is really an absolute marvel of design for single clutch automatics. I still much prefer a manual transmission in my sports car, but my wife's F30 335i with the 8 speed sport automatic is truly fantastic for daily driving and for the occasional run through the twisties. It is much smoother in auto mode than previous dct versions (I have not driven the newest dct that BMW offers), and is very quick to respond to up/downshifts, especially in Sport+ mode. [/QUOTE] The ZF 8AT is a torque converter automatic, a true automatic. It is nothing like an automated manual trans that couples to the engine via a clutch. It is not a "single clutch" automatic. It's smoother shifts, especially for daily driving, are due to the torque converter being able to absorb, smooth out the shift. Depending in which mode the 8AT is set to, the shifts can be softer and a bit slower, or faster and more direct. ZF also makes the DCT. They say that the 8AT is just as quick as the DCT on up shifts, and the 8AT is actually faster on down shifts compared to the DCT. Part of that is because the 8AT can skip multiple gears on a downshift without having to hit a gear in between. The DCT, or any other dual clutch automated manual, can also skip gears on a down shift, but how fast it can do it depends on which gear the trans is in and which gear the driver wants. If the trans is in an odd number gear, like 5, and the driver wants 3rd, the trans can't directly go to 3rd as it's on the same line and clutch as 5th. So the trans will have to engage 4th and quickly move to 3rd. So the odd and even clutches will each need to be activated to accomplish the down shift. The DCT can do this very quickly, but in comparison to the 8AT the 8AT can do it quicker as it doesn't need to couple and decouple as it doesn't have a clutch. I've tried how fast the sport 8AT can downshift from 8th to 2nd really REALLY freaking fast in my 335i Msport. I put the trans in auto mode and driver mode in comfort, then get up to speed, which isn't very fast as the AT in comfort will get to 8th really quickly by around 45mph. Then I floor the throttle making sure I activate the kick down button under the throttle pedal, as the trans starts the down shift I switch over to manual mode so I can see which gear it's in. It'll go from 8th to 2nd nearly instantly. You don't have to switch to manual mode to confirm the ultra fast multi gear down shift. Once you're in 8th gear floor the throttle, it'll down shift, then just count the number shifts until it gets to 8th gear. It really is an amazing torque converter automatic, the best AT I've even driven. Unfortunately for me, the sport 8AT in my 335i isn't as smooth as it can be. That and some other gear control issues is why I'm going back to an MT when I order my M235i. But that's a different matter. |
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06-15-2014, 09:01 PM | #131 | |
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After driving both, I couldn't imagine preferring the coupe except in track-only applications. |
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06-15-2014, 09:31 PM | #132 | |
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I understood his comment to mean that BMW put the "M" in the cars name so there's nothing an M235i owner needs to do or explain. The "M" is part of the name as BMW named it. But I could be wrong. Maybe we should ask the poster what he means by his post. I think you're saying the BMW's marketing is trying to use the "M" cars reputation in order to create that association in some buyers minds. So that they think that the "M" on their car actually means that the performance of their car is more associated to an actual M car and less with the regular variant. If that is what you're saying, then I absolutely agree with that. Just because the new M235i matches most of the performance parameters of former M cars, that still doesn't make an "M sport" more like an M and less like the standard model. IMO, BMW have gone over board with how they place the "M" everywhere. I understand that "M" is the high performance division like "RS" for Audi, "AMG" for MB, "SVT" for Ford, "TRD" for Toyota, etc... But those letters stand for something and they mean a much greater level of performance over the regular line cars on which they are based. What regular line of 235i is the M235i greater than? Since they're going to throw around the "M" so easily, then why not an M228i? M-sport is really not much more than cosmetics as it doesn't include higher performance parts or tuning above the "sport" variant. I have a 335i Msport. The only difference between my Msport and a 335i sport is some body parts, different wheels, different steering wheel, an "M" footrest, and "M" graphic application in various places. My Msport has no greater capability than the 335i sport. The M235i doesn't even have a variant by which the "M" can be differentiated. "Msport", and that's really what an M235i is, is actually a big let down in my 335i Mpsort. Msport, and sticking the "M" everywhere, means nothing in terms of greater performance. It's mostly about appearance and it may come to bite them in the ass and below is some of the reason why I say this. It's ridiculous to me that my 335i Msport actually has an "eco pro" mode. Are you kidding? What in the world is going on that a driver, who wants the sportiest non M variant, has an "eco pro" mode that actually tunes DOWN the performance capability of the car?!?!? Save a few miles per tankful? You paid for the highest non M performance level and now you want to save a few dollars per tankful? Even "comfort" mode doesn't need to be there as it too is a detuned mode with a lower level of performance. At the very least BMW should make it so that the driver mode defaults to sport mode on sport and Msport variants. No, instead they stick an "M" in front of sport and then set the default mode to be below it's best performance capability. You need to get back to, "The Ultimate Driving Machine", that's what your reputation was built on. You created that mantra and meant it as you also made cars that others in the same class couldn't beat in terms of driving performance. I'll be test driving the 228i and M235i very soon. I really hope it has that BMW magic I had in my E46 325i sport and 135i. The 335i Msport I currently have has been a disappointment in terms of driving enjoyment. It's more of a big horse power appliance than, "The Ultimate Driving Machine". Wow that's a long rant. I'll sit down now. |
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