[IS3andME]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Update:



The timescale works absolutely in favour with the new BMW M3 and BMW M4 Coupe because a gap of two years allows establishment and progress. By this time there will be the Competition Package for the M3 and M4 and there will also be progress for the two cars in an additional specification.

Then you have to think about the next M5 and its leap in technology , lightweight and power increase to just over 600 PS. Granted the M5 won't be on the market at this point but the arrival will be just over twelve months from the G30.

This is where the gap opens for the M2 and there will be ample room for co-existence.

The interesting thing that really shows progress, is that on a presentation briefing between Toyota and BMW on the Z4 Replacement which is the Z3 is the ability to integrate super sports car specifications into that car by extensive use of Carbon Fibre. The Z3 will be the first car, along with its Toyota twin to use a Carbon tub in its price range for a premium manufacturer even undercutting the Alfa Romeo 4C. The bonnet lid and bootlid will also be CFRP and as will areas of the suspension.

It leads to possibly further advances of CFRP on the M2 as the time frame allows for further and extensive application. The four cylinder resonates with the approach to lightweight application over numbers.

The new BMW M3 and M4 begin the Carbon revolution at M. It's not all about the numbers its about precision through weight reduction.

To understand the significance. Look at that Carbon bodied Maybach at around 1 million dollars. Granted the 7er will not be extensive in application but with all the key panels approached to be fabricated from CFRP it will be far , far less than that Maybach , not even a fraction of the cost. That is how important this is.

Later this year as BMW begin the roll out to the first BMW to adopt a significant lightweight approach their will be media Technology days where you will understand the full outline of how innovative and beneficial this will be for BMW.

Start to get excited.

Will the Toyota version be based on the FT-1 concept that debuted at the Detriot Autoshow? And if so, will the BMW version have the same dimensions?
Also, the designers of the FT-1 had said that they envision that the car would have an inline 6. That seems like a clue---because it was supposed to harm back to the Supra and other sports cars, that have had inline 6 engine configuration. And since Toyota no longer makes one, that could give credence that the FT-1 is the Toyota version of the Toyota/BMW collaboration.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Relatively no high increase in price over the current Z4.

Not sure what the time to market will be, but the Z4 starts at just $49k. Even if there were a $4k increase, that would make the carbon fiber tub Z3 starting point the low 50's. I think I just wet myself

[Marioalex24]

Thanks Scott.

Will there be a Z3M?
It's going to be difficult to decide between the new M2 or the Z3 with all the light parts. And for the 4 cycl. I'm all good.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

Yeah, especially when Alfa said they were trying to get the MSRP under $60k. Too bad it looks like they won't hit that I've heard rumors ranging from $70k to upwards of $80k when they finally make their way back to our shores (eff you, Fiat!).

I think the 4C might end up dead on arrival; a victim of being early to market. Even with excellent handling, the buyer's market north of $70k is just too competitive for the poor little Alfa.

I haven't seen any price estimates for the 4c above 60K
In Europe it's halfway between the cayman, and the cayman S
I don't see it being different over here
The price I see most often in the US press , is $54,000

[avalanche]

Hope it will not affect the BMW designs to much but hey! , I am confident

[bclemans]

Why no M335i or M435i? Shouldn't there be M Performance Vehicles (packaged like the M235i, not adding individual components) to compete against the Audi S

[yousefnjr]

Awesome news. All these CFRP bits will be on the normal series Z3 cars? Not an M-only thing??

[Yanothan]

Wow! This looks promising...

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by kmarei

I haven't seen any price estimates for the 4c above 60K
In Europe it's halfway between the cayman, and the cayman S
I don't see it being different over here
The price I see most often in the US press , is $54,000

I've seen pricing all over the board. I sure hope they can get it under $60k, but here's an example of a report from May 2013 estimating an $86k MSRP. WHOA! The most recent example I've seen was from Road & Track on Twitter in September. They quoted the $54k number as well. I just don't know what to believe. Alfa has promised and failed to deliver so many times

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

Awesome news. All these CFRP bits will be on the normal series Z3 cars? Not an M-only thing??

It looks that way:

BMW developed Carbon fibre tub and chassis , key elements such as suspension arms fabricated from CFRP , aluminium A structure and chassis section.

Once you commit to a carbon fiber tub as your chassis base, it's difficult to swap it out with something different for your different trim lines.

[kmarei]

Originally Posted by bradleyland

I've seen pricing all over the board. I sure hope they can get it under $60k, but here's an example of a report from May 2013 estimating an $86k MSRP. WHOA! The most recent example I've seen was from Road & Track on Twitter in September. They quoted the $54k number as well. I just don't know what to believe. Alfa has promised and failed to deliver so many times

I have a downpayment at the local fiat dealer
And the local Maserati dealer for this car
Still unknown which dealers will have it , so I played it safe

Would be bummed if they don't release it
The next m3/m4 doesn't excite me one bit
And as much as I'd love a cayman, it's too much money for too little power
And I don't like the porsche if you want anything you pay options charges up the wazoo system
So if no alfa, I really can't think of any other car I'd like to own
Maybe the M2 if its not turbocharged

[phoenixbmwlife]

Originally Posted by hwelvaar

Get your manual BMW while you still can!

All this carbon talk makes me wonder about the next M3. Should I wait another 7 years, or buy one now?

7 years? LOL You're kidding right? You don't even know if you'll be alive in 7 years. Buy the car now and enjoy it if you can afford it. Then in 7 years you can upgrade to the new one.

[bradleyland]

Originally Posted by kmarei

Maybe the M2 if its not turbocharged

The M2 will definitely be turbocharged. SCOTT26 confirmed in another thread that we won't see another naturally aspirated M-car.

The 4C is turbocharged though. Does that bother you?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Yes Z5 will effectively replace the Z4 and retain the folding hard top.

G30 is the new 5er.

Is there a possibility for a fixed-roof Z5 a la the the E36/8 and E86 Z/M Coupes?

[aajami]

Originally Posted by bclemans

Why no M335i or M435i? Shouldn't there be M Performance Vehicles (packaged like the M235i, not adding individual components) to compete against the Audi S

There might still be. The PPK for the E90 335i and the E92/3 335is (which are effectively the precursors to the current Mx35i models) weren't introduced until their respective LCI.

[aajami]

Originally Posted by IS3andME

Will the Toyota version be based on the FT-1 concept that debuted at the Detriot Autoshow? And if so, will the BMW version have the same dimensions?
Also, the designers of the FT-1 had said that they envision that the car would have an inline 6. That seems like a clue---because it was supposed to harm back to the Supra and other sports cars, that have had inline 6 engine configuration. And since Toyota no longer makes one, that could give credence that the FT-1 is the Toyota version of the Toyota/BMW collaboration.

Scott has said that the FT-1 is not the car that BMW and Toyota are collaborating on.

[Wolf]

so the Z3 is gonna cost more than the current Z4?

[Alpine F31]

Originally Posted by K3N R3D

7 years? LOL You're kidding right? You don't even know if you'll be alive in 7 years. Buy the car now and enjoy it if you can afford it.

[Meeni]

Originally Posted by kmarei

So if no alfa, I really can't think of any other car I'd like to own
Maybe the M2 if its not turbocharged

The M2 will be turbo charged. It cannot get 350+ hp without that.

If you are serious on the Alfa, you may want to cross-shop with Lotus. A new Elise is coming, and the 2+2 whose name escapes me is also an interesting piece.

[Robert]

It should be named ZM, aka The M

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by puma1552

I came into this thread expecting a nice post about the title of the thread. Instead, I came in to read an incoherent, disjointed mess of statements and text, only loosely related to either the title, or even each other.

#disappointment

+1

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Wolf

so the Z3 is gonna cost more than the current Z4?

It's a marketing trick.

First the thread title...

BMW Z4 to get replaced by Z3

Same price as current Z4 w cloth top to save weight.

Then Scott says...
The Z4 will effectively be replaced by the Z5.

Go figure.

Money Money Money