04-04-2020, 10:57 PM | #45 |
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So what is this horrible inertial weight? 😂
Seriously though some of you make it sound like the xdrive handles worse than a Lada, or at least that’s how I read it. Of course xdrive makes sense in this car and it doesn’t take away from what the car is. It’s a different setup for different people and purposes. |
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04-04-2020, 11:02 PM | #46 | |
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I am very happy with my RWD AT. In manual mode I am just as engaged with managing the engine as I would be with an MT. I do miss working the clutch and throttle to match revs perfectly, but it's not a deal-breaker for me. More importantly, I like to induce a bit of oversteer now and then when conditions are perfect. The rest of the twisty road driving experience is great, but those are the moments I live for and remember. Sure, you can cause oversteer in some AWD cars, and even some FWD cars that don't push the front too badly (eg Civic Type R) but those techniques seem unnatural to me and I don't think I would enjoy them anywhere near as much as I do in my RWD. A test drive is pretty well useless regarding showing you how the car behaves in spirited driving, unless you find an unusual sales agent and you have good roads nearby. So I disagree with the many posts that say you need to test drive both to find out what you prefer. A careful reading of threads like this one and every magazine road test I could find were more useful to me than the test drive. That said, my test drive did convince me that the AT in the 240 is excellent compared to the ones in the cars I cross shopped - a bit nicer than the Audi RS3 and much better than the one in the Mercedes C43AMG. (I test drove the Audi and Merc mainly to be thorough. I probably wasn't going to give up the fun of RWD - the Merc is available in Canada only in AWD - to get a better daily driver than the C5 Z06 I had at the time.)
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04-04-2020, 11:09 PM | #47 |
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It's funny how discussions about a drivetrain can actually have little to do with mechanics and a lot to do with personal identity.
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04-05-2020, 01:07 AM | #49 | |
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The most fun threads on BMW forums are those when it is less about the car, and more about the *idea* of said car! EDIT: Jalopnik threads are a goldmine for this kind of troll-fest |
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04-05-2020, 01:09 AM | #50 |
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04-05-2020, 12:59 PM | #52 |
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Personally, I find the 228 ix with AT to be the perfect way to undercompensate for my large penis. It helps balance out my life so my ego doesn't run amok.
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04-05-2020, 02:48 PM | #54 | |
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04-05-2020, 06:24 PM | #55 | |
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I've had no problem inducing oversteer with throttle application coming out of corners in my M240xi. My Prelude (FWD) on the other-hand wouldn't oversteer even with application of the handbrake in a snowy parking lot.
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04-06-2020, 01:43 AM | #56 | |
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Having a car feel really well planted while accelerating out of a corner is exactly what I do not want in a fun car for the street. That's the main reason I stuck with RWD, but I am curious about whether I made a mistake, as AWD would be useful to me a few times a year. I had assumed that oversteer with AWD involved brake and steering inputs while entering a corner, which doesn't interest me for the reasons given by Moflow. Perhaps you could describe in more detail what you do to induce oversteer while accelerating out of a corner.
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04-06-2020, 10:16 AM | #57 | |
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04-06-2020, 10:25 AM | #58 | |
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04-06-2020, 12:53 PM | #59 | |
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I spent the last 20 years living in Michigan. I have also traveled for work to some snowy areas as well. Needless to say, Ive lived and driven regularly through a LOT of snow. Every time I hear someone try to make the "RWD with snow tires" argument, my eyes glaze over. The odd thing is, its only done for cars. Ive never seen anyone say that a truck with RWD and snow tires, or a JEEP with RWD and snow tires, has any advantage. its always some odd thinking that is strictly isolated to sedans and coupes. If you've lived with snow, you know there is no substitute to real AWD or 4x4. Even with AWD or 4x4, most vehicles STILL need a dedicated snow tire set. Ive driven Audi's AWD, BMWs, Subaru's..so I can honestly say that I have tried the "best out there". Ive also gotten loaner RWD BMWs and Audis. Ive also driven 100's of other vehicles, working in the automotive industry and frequently traveling. There is zero situations where a RWD with snow tires will be comparable to AWD with snow tires. Matter of factly, I will take my Silverado on regular tires, in 4x4, over a RWD with snow tires, 11/10 times. |
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04-06-2020, 02:20 PM | #60 |
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I 've driven 500,000km or so in winter conditions in Canada and 80% of that has been with RWD and winter tyres. We currently have an AWD Golf R as well as the M240i for winter use. I take the M240i out in the snow more than the Golf R, as I just prefer driving it. I've never been restricted in being able to take the RWD drive cars out in the snow, plenty of good snow days into the Rockies. One of the best drives I ever had was on the snow covered access road to Kicking Horse resort in a Z4M, roof down with skis in the passenger seat, tail out on the bends with snow roosters being thrown in the air - utilising a good set of winter tyres to their limit.
AWD is just unnecessary for on-road use, but I can understand why many like it due to the sense of security it gives. |
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04-06-2020, 03:00 PM | #61 | |
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That was just for daily driving, though. During winter car-control clinics conducted on ice and snow, strategically switching back and forth between RWD and 4WD made for faster lap times without any reduction in security. On a couple of occasions over 20 years in NNE, I couldn't get up my driveway with the Tundra, and that was with a ½ cord of hardwood over the rear axle. I had an alternative place to park, so that wasn't a problem; instead, the problem was having to walk through the kind of stuff that the truck couldn't even handle.
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04-06-2020, 03:09 PM | #62 |
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It's not just about snow. An AWD car will provide better traction in standing water, regardless of the type of tires on the car. I've witnessed this both on the road, as well as in autocross and track day applications. Where RWD cars have to modulate the throttle with feather-like inputs through corners, lesser AWD cars can charge with much more confidence.
As stated several times, it's all preference. I do find it interesting that a few folks have mentioned that they can only justify AWD a few times a year or on the rare occasion it snows. Yet their normal everyday driving consists of inducing oversteer and drifting around corners. I guess my street driving is pretty old, boring, and controlled. |
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04-06-2020, 03:13 PM | #63 | |
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04-06-2020, 04:52 PM | #64 |
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It is possible to drift in an AWD - I've done it a few times on public roads, by mistake. Usually on a wet roundabout, when applying power too early in the turn, before leaving. It's fairly undramatic - the car will just drift uniformly front and back, outwards towards the edge of the roundabout. Correction is just a matter of taking your foot off the gas. All fine, of course, as long as it's not a dual-lane roundabout and there's another car next to you, or you compensate too late and run out of tarmac. A salutary lesson in not becoming complacent that AWD would always compensate for my own lack of attention.
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04-06-2020, 05:53 PM | #65 | ||
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"Well, AKKSHUALLY, I drive in RWD with snow tires all the time. It is jUsT aS g0oD aS AWD". Such concentrated bullshit. |
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04-06-2020, 06:25 PM | #66 | |
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"RWD just as good as AWD" (assuming traction being the only measurement, which is not necessarily the case) is not equal to "AWD is not needed, RWD is adequate" RWD is just fine in winter with the right tyres for on-road conditions, AWD will give more traction with the same tyres for acceleration, but doesn't help you stop better. AWD also can mask poor traction with loss of some feeling through the steering, leading to over confidence, one of the reasons I prefer our RWD M240i to our AWD Golf R (both with winter tyres), as you can feel the traction through the steering a lot better on icy surfaces. It is always interesting on snow days when heading to the mountains that many over confident AWD vehicle drivers end up in the ditch (sometimes on their side or roof) because they could get going well, but misjudged the lack of traction before sliding rapidly into the ditch, with the 2WD drivers tending to be a lot more cautious as they know they have less traction. Bottom line is RWD is fine for winter use as is FWD or AWD. AWD is good if you want to get going a bit faster, but doesn't give advantage in stopping or traction feedback. Around here it wasn't that long ago that the cops all used RWD Crown Victorias until they went out of production, they had no problems in winter conditions, especially as you can get snow most months of the year in the Canadian Rockies. |
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