[nike001]

Well, I just ordered mine with the LSD. My zhp always felt like it needed that little bit extra.. and I feel like that should've been an LSD.

I added some other BMW perf stuff too, along with most packages and holy god price racks up fast. It was $50,405 two days ago, now with an added package and BMW Performance stuff it's $55k..

[tke743]

Originally Posted by nike001

Well, I just ordered mine with the LSD. My zhp always felt like it needed that little bit extra.. and I feel like that should've been an LSD.

I added some other BMW perf stuff too, along with most packages and holy god price racks up fast. It was $50,405 two days ago, now with an added package and BMW Performance stuff it's $55k..

I came from a ZHP too. Miss that car, but this one is better.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by tke743

I've been asked to further refine the line between the need for the LSD on the track vs not. I had stated up to one track time a year and no you don't need one. I stated that as it usually is the defining line between the novice and the non-novice. Let me refine that.

If you are tracking the car and know how to heal-toe AND left foot brake then get the LSD. If either of the above are no, then it's not needed (yet). If you add these skills and track more you can always add it later.

Technically, I have been bumped up from the Novice run group to the Intermediate run group, even though I only do one track day per year. The instructors grade you after each event and recommend when it's time to graduate to the next level.

That said, I never tried left foot braking on a race track. Even in the Intermediate run group, I've never heard an instructor mention it, or heard it mentioned in the classroom sessions. Heel-and-toe, yes, but I was doing that first time on the track.

To me, the only reason not to get the LSD is because it costs $3000. I don't know that you have to have mastered left foot braking... The LSD should actually be standard on a car like the M235i, IMO.

There's a picture of me on the SCDA website on track at Watkins Glen, when I was running in the Novice group 5 years ago:

http://www.scda1.com/wp-content/uplo...i_nov_7391.jpg

[tke743]

Originally Posted by wjones14

Technically, I have been bumped up from the Novice run group to the Intermediate run group, even though I only do one track day per year. The instructors grade you after each event and recommend when it's time to graduate to the next level.

That said, I never tried left foot braking on a race track. Even in the Intermediate run group, I've never heard an instructor mention it, or heard it mentioned in the classroom sessions. Heel-and-toe, yes, but I was doing that first time on the track.

To me, the only reason not to get the LSD is because it costs $3000. I don't know that you have to have mastered left foot braking... The LSD should actually be standard on a car like the M235i, IMO.

There's a picture of me on the SCDA website on track at Watkins Glen, when I was running in the Novice group 5 years ago:

http://www.scda1.com/wp-content/uplo...i_nov_7391.jpg

Nice pic! I do so like the Glen.

My point was to try to give a definition to the defining line. So yes, if you have been bumped up from the Novice group by your local instructors, then that would be the line too. I was trying to come up with a relatively generic definition. It will not fit all drivers, no insult was intended.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by tke743

I came from a ZHP too. Miss that car, but this one is better.

I read a few of your threads and saw you came from a ZHP. To be honest, I'm quite scared that I'll regret getting rid of my ZHP. I've had it for almost 5 years now and 50k miles, and I've spent more than enough in upkeep and small aesthetic upgrades.. and I'm nervous that the M235i won't give that same "feel" as the ZHP does.

I've worked as a porter while going through school and drove most BMW cars, and not once was I ever sad about getting into my ZHP after a day of work. I actually though it was insane that I can drive loaded up 335i's and even E9x M3's and still feel like I like my 2004 330i better...

[tke743]

Originally Posted by nike001

I read a few of your threads and saw you came from a ZHP. To be honest, I'm quite scared that I'll regret getting rid of my ZHP. I've had it for almost 5 years now and 50k miles, and I've spent more than enough in upkeep and small aesthetic upgrades.. and I'm nervous that the M235i won't give that same "feel" as the ZHP does.

I've worked as a porter while going through school and drove most BMW cars, and not once was I ever sad about getting into my ZHP after a day of work. I actually though it was insane that I can drive loaded up 335i's and even E9x M3's and still feel like I like my 2004 330i better...

I have a whole thread dedicated to the compare/contrast with the ZHP and M235i, if that helps.

[crqflier]

Great follow up/write up. Was wondering about quaife vs MP and your description makes it clear.

[wjones14]

Originally Posted by tke743

Nice pic! I do so like the Glen.

My point was to try to give a definition to the defining line. So yes, if you have been bumped up from the Novice group by your local instructors, then that would be the line too. I was trying to come up with a relatively generic definition. It will not fit all drivers, no insult was intended.

No worries. My response was tongue-in-cheek. Appreciate all your effort on this thread. It's a wealth of good information!

[Béhème]

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but the whole write up is definitely a hoax. The author is just familiar enough with LSD web-lore to make it seem credible. It’s a nice story, but that’s all it is - a fictional tale. Then again, I could be mistaken and it could be a well-informed TROLL out to see how many fish he can hook.

He might not have a car, he might not have an LSD, he might not have tested, or may actually have done it all (it’s very convenient that his friend just happened to have the same car and transmission with a Quaife isn’t it!!!!!) - who knows???

The truth of the matter is, it would take a top professional driver with proven car tuning skills in controlled conditions, preferably in a double blind test, including a car without an LSD, to draw any meaningful conclusions.

I have a M performance LSD on my car, and its action is very subtle on acceleration and invisible on deceleration, but don’t go by me either, because I’m also not a top professional driver with proven car tuning skills…..

[tke743]

Originally Posted by Béhème

I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade, but the whole write up is definitely a hoax. The author is just familiar enough with LSD web-lore to make it seem credible. It’s a nice story, but that’s all it is - a fictional tale. Then again, I could be mistaken and it could be a well-informed TROLL out to see how many fish he can hook.

He might not have a car, he might not have an LSD, he might not have tested, or may actually have done it all (it’s very convenient that his friend just happened to have the same car and transmission with a Quaife isn’t it!!!!!) - who knows???

The truth of the matter is, it would take a top professional driver with proven car tuning skills in controlled conditions, preferably in a double blind test, including a car without an LSD, to draw any meaningful conclusions.

I have a M performance LSD on my car, and its action is very subtle on acceleration and invisible on deceleration, but don’t go by me either, because I’m also not a top professional driver with proven car tuning skills…..

Sigh... Nice... Note: I don't think TROLL means what you think it does.

Notice how I noted it with the fact that it was "my $0.02" aka "my opinion". Feel free to try the tests as outlined herein and disagree, I outlined my methodology, so it should be repeatable, or able to be disproven. Of course this would take effort on your part.

You keep mentioning that I would have to be a tuner to know the difference, how do my shop skills apply? Pitch a e-diff car and an LSD equiped car into a corner and see if you can tell. The answer is simple, the e-diff, while good, is not as predictable or smooth. Others have noted this too.

As a person with a science degree, I fully agree with you that this would have been better as a double blind with 3 cars back to back to back, in controlled conditions. But that was not an option. If I worked for the car mags I'm sure that's how I would have done it.

The pics of my car are already posted, I can take an under-skirt shot of the LSD if people wish. So enough with the "he doesn't actually have the car BS". And as to the convenience of it being a Quaife like I was going to test, what other options are there?

At that point take this for what I said it was, the passing on of one man's $0.02 after his inquiring mind wanted to really know and bothered to make the effort. Do your own testing if you disagree. Btw, if you think the LSD is subtle, and can't tell that the LSD is there on decel, then you aren't pushing it.

P.S. Damn it, I let an obvious troll (the correct definition) get under my skin. I know better. Appologies to all.

[FunRevn]

Does the Pumpkin of the LSD diff look any different than the open diff?

Thanks.

For those that were following my LSD issues, they replaced my drive shaft and for now it appears the clinking sound is gone... Hopefully I get her back tomorrow

[tke743]

Originally Posted by FunRevn

Does the Pumpkin of the LSD diff look any different than the open diff?

Thanks.

For those that were following my LSD issues, they replaced my drive shaft and for now it appears the clinking sound is gone... Hopefully I get her back tomorrow

That is great news. Awesome to hear, we know you have gone through hell on this. I'll take a picture of both tomorrow. My old pumpkin is in a box in the garage.

[hoppy6698]

Originally Posted by FunRevn

Does the Pumpkin of the LSD diff look any different than the open diff?

Thanks.

For those that were following my LSD issues, they replaced my drive shaft and for now it appears the clinking sound is gone... Hopefully I get her back tomorrow

I trust this was the MP LSD and was covered under warranty?

[FunRevn]

Originally Posted by hoppy6698

I trust this was the MP LSD and was covered under warranty?

Yes. mp LSD. Has been a problem from day one. All covered under warranty..

[FunRevn]

Originally Posted by tke743

That is great news. Awesome to hear, we know you have gone through hell on this. I'll take a picture of both tomorrow. My old pumpkin is in a box in the garage.

Thanks that would be great....

[abp689]

Seems credible, as well as your ZHP write-up. Good effort.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by FunRevn

Thanks that would be great....

Sorry, I will do it, as soon as it stops snowing.

Originally Posted by abp689

Seems credible, as well as your ZHP write-up. Good effort.

Thank you

[shark715]

I'm not planning to track my 235, so I'm thinking I can't justify the cost of the LSD. Is the E-diff standard on the 235? Is it part of the Xdrive system on an Xdrive equipped car?

[tke743]

Originally Posted by abp689

Seems credible, as well as your ZHP write-up. Good effort.

Originally Posted by shark715

I'm not planning to track my 235, so I'm thinking I can't justify the cost of the LSD. Is the E-diff standard on the 235? Is it part of the Xdrive system on an Xdrive equipped car?

The E-Diff is standard on the M235i, it's just software, not a physical device. I'm pretty sure that the software is on all of the modern BMW's (Not the M's).

Now as to X-Drive. X-Drive is (logically) just a series of e-diffs, strung together. (I know this is technically wrong, but it is a good logical picture.) As to a mechanical LSD for X-Drive, I've heard of it, but I've never even seen it advertised. Neither of the pieces I reviewed herein are compatible.

[shark715]

Originally Posted by tke743

The E-Diff is standard on the M235i, it's just software, not a physical device. I'm pretty sure that the software is on all of the modern BMW's (Not the M's).

Now as to X-Drive. X-Drive is logically just a series of e-diffs, strung together. (I know this is technically wrong, but it is a good logical picture.) As to a mechanical LSD for X-Drive, I've heard of it, but never seen it advertised. Neither of the pieces I reviewed herein are compatible.

Thanks for the explanation. Does Xdrive (at least as installed on a 235) have the ability to send all the torque to one wheel? More specifically, I guess what I'm asking is is if I'm in deep snow, so long as one of the 4 wheels has traction, am I not stuck?

[ORIGIN M.]

No way in hell I'd not have a LSD in my car. In many cases I'd prefer to drive xDrive over standard series sDrive applications.

[tke743]

Originally Posted by FunRevn

Does the Pumpkin of the LSD diff look any different than the open diff?

Sorry, work intruded on this. Yes they look a little different. The M-Performance one looks like the cover has been treated (anodized?) whereas the stock pumpkin is bare metal. (Excuse the salt)

Stock


M-Performance