08-13-2016, 05:11 PM | #45 | |
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So why do many drivers complain about the the feel of electrical steering? This article provides some insight. http://blog.caranddriver.com/bmw-det...ring-equation/ It says that starting with the 2015 M3 and M4, BMW “utilizes unique software that more or less eliminates electric assist for unwinding the steering coming out of turns. This means that only the mechanical force applied to the rack via the tires and suspension geometry forces the steering wheel back to center, and BMW says the lack of electronic “filtering” translates to more-direct road feel than is typical for EPS. This is huge, because it’s exactly this electronic translation of what the front tires are doing that typically strips EPS of proper feedback, which is critical for comfortably driving a car fast.” Is some form of this improved design is used in our 2ers? Or do we have an earlier design in which the EPS still degrades steering feedback? Does anyone know? I agree that dissatisfaction with the steering may be just transitional. It takes time to learn a new car. The 2er steering feels quick and precise, and the overall handling is excellent in Sport+. For months I drove in Comfort half the time, before I realized that what I liked was Sport suspension/steering combined with non-Sport drive train. |
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08-13-2016, 08:39 PM | #46 | |
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08-14-2016, 09:57 AM | #48 |
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I like the my M235 a lot...But over ownership time, I've found that I don't love it like I did my E46 or E92 m3's. Its not about 0-60 times as this little 2'er will hang with either of those 2 cars.
Its a great everyday driver, comfortable and faster than any sane person would need. But it's not a lust car for me that I'll keep after lease...Cant quite put my finger on why either as it does so much so well. Maybe I'm just ready for something other than a BMW? I've been driving one model or another since the early 2000's...
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Previous Rides: 535xi, M235xi, X3, E92 M3, E70 X5 35d, X6 50i, X6 35i, E60 550i, E46 M3 Cabriolet, E39 540i, E36 328i
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08-14-2016, 11:04 AM | #49 |
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I'm not in love either. Having owned a 2011 E90 ZCP M3 for a few years, I agree with you 100% and can't wait for my lease to be done and me back in the E9x M3. If I hadn't owned that car, I would absolutely be over the moon with my 235 but I had one of the best cars ever, and now I regret letting it go.
I will say though that I went on an aggressive drive in my 235 with some M3 friends on here and I didn't have trouble keeping up. Acceleration was slightly lacking in straights, but otherwise I was right on their tails. This car is very quick and feels lighter than M3 but the emotion is lacking. |
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08-14-2016, 11:54 AM | #50 |
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This is my fourth BMW. I came out out of a modded e93. I loved that car. I've never owned an m car. As I only have one car for daily use I'm not really interested in am m.
I love the m235. It ticks every box. It's fast. It rides well. Handles great. Perfect size. And in la 4 series m and non m cars are everywhere. You don't see many 2's. My e93 had 19" wheels. Koni shocks. M3 bushings etc. it was great to hoon. But whenever a got a crappy loaner I loved thr ride. Living in a city where they spend less then $10 on road repair I felt everything in the e93. In the f23 it's comfortable when I want and taut when I need it. The power is about the same as my tuned e93. This will get s tune soon enough but not as aggressive as the e93. I do miss a few things the e93 had like a damn temp guage. But the f23 is the perfect size. It reminds me of my e46. On paper if you built a car exactly how I wanted, this would be it. If this didn't exist I would probably be in a Golf r. I want something I can commute it ans hit some back roads. Basically a road car you can track vs a track car you can commute in. So far, I still love it Also I see a lot of people lamenting their e36 m3's and a few other m cars. It's kind of an unfair comparison. The e36 is 30 years old. That was a long time and many sagging glove boxes ago Last edited by DF; 08-14-2016 at 12:26 PM.. |
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08-14-2016, 01:44 PM | #51 |
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I like my M235i very much, but I love my 328i wagon. Which has less to do with the 328i being a "better car", but more to do with circumstances. It was the car I had long wanted, my first new BMW, my first Euro Delivery. And I can't help that feel because it is about 300% simpler, it is a much better long-term bet than my M235i. I can see myself replacing the M235i with something else in a few years, I plan to keep the 328i forever.
I actually much prefer the steering of the M235i to that of the 328i.
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08-14-2016, 01:57 PM | #52 |
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My first BMW, and I'm enjoying the 235. Not to say that I don't have issues with it - but I'm guessing that I'm just accustomed to AWDs (previous was a 2008 WRX, while my alternate car is a 2012 STi).
Loads of power, but handling seems different from what I'm used to. Not the fault of the vehicle, probably. I Just need to learn how to drive it better. Am I expecting it to be on the level of a full M ... never did. I just look at this way, I don't think an M2 or M3 will be that much faster or way ahead of me in twisties or mountain passes. Cheers |
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08-14-2016, 03:17 PM | #53 |
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I haven't driven any of the 981 or 718 chassis Boxster/Cayman so I can't really comment on those, but I have done some track events (on Porsche's dime at Monticello Motor Club which is really an amazing place if you have insane amounts of money) in both the 987 Boxster Spider and the 987 Cayman R (as well as the base and S models but those aren't as exciting compared to the others). I also drove most of the entire 997.2 911 up to the GTS as the top one they let us drive ourselves, they saved a 997.2 Turbo for a pro to drive some hot laps for us which was just mind numbingly fast in the hands of a professional racer).
The group I was in got to drive the 911 line up first, before we moved to a different area of the track (they can divide it into a north and south loop with a few different track configurations) where they had a more technical section setup for the mid engine 987.2 lineup. As well as Porsche has been able to work its engineering magic on the rear engine configuration of the 911 to get rid of the worst of the layout's inherent flaws, hints of them are still there. With the 911 you are always aware that the front end of the car is light and it doesn't turn in quite as well as well as I'd hoped. This "light" feeling from the front was not as confidence inspiring like how the mid engine 987 felt like you could just keep pushing it harder and harder and it was happy to do so. Don't get me wrong, the 911 is one of the most legendary, iconic, and best sports cars ever made, but with all things aside, like the weight, horsepower, the center of gravity/weight distribution, a mid engine platform is always going to be the superior chassis configuration. It sure felt that way to me even with only a couple of corners completed in the Boxster Spider under my belt. In fact that Boxster Spider was so good and driving it on that track as hard as I could was by far the most fun I've ever had in a car. It was just so pure and amazing and felt like a connection of yourself which just ate up the road in the most amusing way possible. |
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08-14-2016, 05:11 PM | #54 |
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The steering on M235i is pretty light, but I doubt it has anything to do with it being electric. BMW always downgrades everything on none M cars. I feel like a tune and better suspension can really make this car great.....maybe exhaust as well. KW makes electronic suspension for M235i by the way. No one has it yet.
Honda was the first to put electric steering in performance car and it was done perfectly the very first time back in 2000 Steer by wire was pretty funny! ))) Q50 is the first car to implement that and it's got garbage reviews Last edited by Kolyan2k; 08-15-2016 at 11:35 AM.. |
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08-15-2016, 10:58 AM | #55 | |
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- RWD or AWD - Small..ish (coming from a B9 Audi A4, something smaller was preferred) - Handling tight, but not racetrack - Livable DD but capable track car - 3+ seating (Mrs. requirement or a Cayman would have been on my list :P) - Okay MPG since I may require long daily commutes (This knocked out the E93 M3) - Below $60k - Must look like something special Dollar for dollar, the closest competitors for me were Golf R (but wasn't coming out fast enough and looks pedestrian), Mustang 5.0 (the latest with IDS, but she got bigger and closer to my A4 in size, Audi S3 (overpriced Golf R and cramped inside). MB CLA was not an option and glad I avoided that one as it seems to have no end of mechanical issues and looks funky to me. For me, the M235 ticks all the right boxes. When I get bored, I just buy a new add on - tint, wheels, tune, suspension, sound system, etc. Then hit a HPDE or other track event and she reminds me of how good BMW can be. BMW doesn't always hit the mark, and the M235 missed quite a few in my books, but its still a damn fine vehicle and always fun.
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08-15-2016, 03:12 PM | #56 |
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I love my M235i because for me, it is mission-correct. It fits my all-around needs quite well.
Sure, I could trade it in on an M4 or 'vette or something of that nature, but in my mind, that would be a compromise to everyday usefulness, comfort and perhaps even decent MPG. For me, there is something very, very gratifying in having a car with decent performance, the usefulness of fold-down rear seats (I need room for my RC toys) and good MPG on the highway.
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08-15-2016, 04:54 PM | #57 |
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Comparing m235i to an m3 is going to be disappointing. I used to own a MZ4 Coupe and it was a hell of a car. I had it for 8 years but then it was beginning to cost me some serious $$$ to service and maintain. I thought that the m235i would be a good replacement and my wife surely agrees as well. No longer I have to hear her complain about how rough the ride is. Now I also know why the car feels "sluggish" in our current 90+ Los Angeles weather. I feel that it performs as wall as what I want , handles OK and still can be fun to drive on the back roads. Now I would never take this car to the track but I have never taken a car to the track!! Also if you ever want to remind yourself that how great ANY BMW is just go and rent a Hyundai, Toyota or a Nissan from a car rental company and while these are good and reliable cars, they never will give the joy of driving the ultimate driving machine.
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08-15-2016, 05:29 PM | #58 | |
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08-15-2016, 05:48 PM | #59 |
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08-15-2016, 05:50 PM | #60 | |
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Who drove home? Everyone else that showed up: Porsche, Audi, BMW, and even Corvettes (this was 4 years ago, before the Stingrays).
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08-15-2016, 07:19 PM | #61 | |
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Certainly not a BMW fanboy, but out of those cars only the GTR is a better drivers car and it's triple the cost so I'd hope so.
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08-15-2016, 08:08 PM | #62 | |
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The problem I have with some of the comments on this forum is that folks seem to fail to understand that all engines are subject to density altitude. NA or Turbo. Power ratings of all engines are set at sea level on a standard 29.92 inches of mercury (atmospheric pressure) and an air temperature of 59 degrees. Any thing above that decreases the rated horsepower, particularly for naturally aspirated engines. There is no getting around this. No one can repeal the laws of physics. But, a turbo charger can delay the onset of density altitude... IN A BIG WAY. I've driven many NA cars over high passes (Sierra Nevada range, plus the Rocky Mountains) and every single NA car I owned suffered a very noticeable power loss as altitude (and sometimes OAT; outside air temperature) increased. There's No getting around it. Yet, my turbo M235i performs wonderfully in the Sierras. I've had it up to 6000 feet AGL (above sea level) and it performed as well as ever. It's the turbo, folks. And that is why aircraft manufacturers install them aircraft, for obvious reasons.
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08-15-2016, 09:11 PM | #63 | |
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I would take ISF over M235i and M3 any day, its got V8 and its reliable, it also posts similar track results as e92 M3. BMW has stolen 8-speed tranny from Lexus lol...shame, although Lexus tranny still shifts a bit faster according to specs Last edited by Kolyan2k; 08-15-2016 at 09:24 PM.. |
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08-15-2016, 10:25 PM | #64 | |
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Another issue is the weight and coming from a camaro 1LE with the 6.2 V8 the isk had a very similar feeling. It handled well but you felt that weight kicking around. The 235 is just more agile I feel. |
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08-15-2016, 10:26 PM | #65 |
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Another way the M235i reminds of the E36 is in how the automobile magazines raved about the car but many owners are simply satisfied rather than in love.
There was a time when the US E36 M3 was considered to be a sorry excuse for an M car. Nowadays, it's a purists car with "tons of feedback" and the perfect size and weight....a common sight at track days and autoX events... I still think that 10-15 years from now the M235i will be considered a legendary cult car, especially if BMW keeps doing what they're currently doing.
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08-16-2016, 12:54 AM | #66 | |
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I wouldn't be surprised if M235 could hang with ISF or perhaps even kill it, but like I said V8 and reliability are the key points. It's almost the same as the original argument about M235i vs M3.....ISF is M3 competitor. Last edited by Kolyan2k; 08-16-2016 at 12:59 AM.. |
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