[IDBMW]

Back in 07 when I went in to order a 08 135i the sales person knew nothing about the car and I was able to order one at 10% off when they had a six month wait to get the car. A few weeks later they wanted to make a new contract but I stuck to the deal they made. The sales manager tried all kinds of tricks to try to cancel the deal. I know way more about BMW’s than the BMW dealer in Boise, ID which is sad but it was nice to take advantage of them.

I bought my M235i without driving one first. Like others said there was no MT M235i’s anywhere but it worked out great.

[MrBucket]

Originally Posted by krhodes1

Realistically most of us who care about cars enough to hang out on a model-specific board know more about the cars than 99.95% of car salespeople. I don't really see this as a big issue, though I would expect a sales dude to at least know what models are available to sell.

I ordered my M235i without a test drive. The chances of finding a stickshift M235i sitting on a dealer lot in the Northeast are effectively zero. My local dealer has had one single M235i for stock period, and it sold in less than a week. And of course, it was X-drive. But I had rented several 228is, so I knew more-or-less what I was getting. And I certainly was not disappointed. I had also never driven a stickshift e91 before ordering my other BMW. Not that unusual when you want something out of the mainstream.

Guess my car is the 0%

I'd only tested automatics though before I bought it.

[Y0tsuya]

The salesperson knows very little about the M235i because they move so few of them.

They only sold 27,933 2-series coupes in 2014. In contrast, they made 476,792 3-series sedans.

My sales advisor swore up and down that my M235i comes with RFT only. When I picked it up in Municih, lo and behold it sports PSS with air inflator kit.

I custom-ordered my 1st bimmer, a 5sp 2001 330i sight unseen without test drive. It was awesome and I drove that puppy for 15 yrs.

So when it came time to order my manual M235i, I don't bother with a test drive either. Chances of finding a MT M235i to try out is slim to none. When the client advisor at BMW Welt asked whether I test drove the car I repeated the same story. Of course after delivery, I experienced the gas pedal dead zone and turbo lag. But it's said to be less noticeable with the AT so I doubt I would have noticed anything in a 10-min M235i AT test drive anyway.

[Steve80bk]

My M235i is my second BMW. With both, I knew way more than the salespeople and often had to inform them of necessary things they should know about the car that I already did. When I had my 3 series, I went to test drive a 335i xdrive with the DHP, and caught them taking an m235i off the showroom floor for a test drive. The manager then told me the 335i xdrive w DHP will definitely handle better than the rwd m235i I was test driving next. Saying things like this will surely make me give you the only dumb face which he absolutely received. I have grown to accept them just wanting to make their sale, with knowing the least amount of information possible to complete a sale. However, not knowing the kind of models the company you sell for produces, is enough for me to walk right out.

[Viffermike]

I'm in high-end sales -- in advertising for it, to be more specific. I've posted on other threads about the disconnects among and in between salespeople, potential customers, and products -- both in relation to car dealerships and the car-buying experience, and on a broader scale.

Two things to remember here:
1). With automobiles and in the Information Age, consumers are more likely to be knowledgeable about a potential purchase than the salesperson. Why? Consumers are typically focusing on 1-3 products, while salespeople have a much broader swath of product to know about. It's simple math -- or a narrow, intense beam of light compared to a more broad, diffuse beam. Common sense, really.
2). Attitude is everything.

When I buy a car, I don't expect the salesperson to know more about it than I. Not even close. No salesperson should expect to know more -- not in today's market, with today's populist resources. I do expect the salesperson to know more about the business of car buying than I -- but only barely. I also expect the salesperson to respect my level of knowledge regarding both, and be open-minded and enthusiastic about my level of knowledge -- and, in the end, happy that the sale of my new car to me brings me satisfaction not just because I'm getting a new car, but because my experience with him/her was positive.

Good salespeople know how to adjust their approach to selling on the fly, from individual to individual. They never assume -- but when they do, they don't voice it; they explore the assumption indirectly until proven correct or incorrect. They also realize that they can learn from their potential customers. When they don't or won't, they immediately lose potential sales -- as this person did with the OP.

Bottom line: find a dealership and a salesperson who don't treat you like a conquest. They should treat you like a partner. That's the attitude of any good salesperson, no matter what the product.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'm in high-end sales -- in advertising for it, to be more specific. I've posted on other threads about the disconnects among and in between salespeople, potential customers, and products -- both in relation to car dealerships and the car-buying experience, and on a broader scale.

Two things to remember here:
1). With automobiles and in the Information Age, consumers are more likely to be knowledgeable about a potential purchase than the salesperson. Why? Consumers are typically focusing on 1-3 products, while salespeople have a much broader swath of product to know about. It's simple math -- or a narrow, intense beam of light compared to a more broad, diffuse beam. Common sense, really.
2). Attitude is everything.

When I buy a car, I don't expect the salesperson to know more about it than I. Not even close. No salesperson should expect to know more -- not in today's market, with today's populist resources. I do expect the salesperson to know more about the business of car buying than I -- but only barely. I also expect the salesperson to respect my level of knowledge regarding both, and be open-minded and enthusiastic about my level of knowledge -- and, in the end, happy that the sale of my new car to me brings me satisfaction not just because I'm getting a new car, but because my experience with him/her was positive.

Good salespeople know how to adjust their approach to selling on the fly, from individual to individual. They never assume -- but when they do, they don't voice it; they explore the assumption indirectly until proven correct or incorrect. They also realize that they can learn from their potential customers. When they don't or won't, they immediately lose potential sales -- as this person did with the OP.

Bottom line: find a dealership and a salesperson who don't treat you like a conquest. They should treat you like a partner. That's the attitude of any good salesperson, no matter what the product.

I agree especially with your last point. Find a salesperson that doesn't treat you like a conquest.

At the end of the day its a transaction. I need to feel comfortable with the person on the other end of that transaction. Do they have to have the same level of product knowledge as me? No it's not a requirement but basic product knowledge is.

I work as a consultant for a software company. My job entails everything from software development to training and everything in between. Our software package is vast and highly customizable. At least once a week I get asked a question that I don't know the answer to. Rather than give an answer that I'm not 100% sure of. Rather than give someone an answer that I'm not entirely sure of I let them know I will get back to them with the correct answer.

There is no shame in saying "I'm not entirely sure but I will get the correct answer for you."

[DeadManGonzo]

I headed to a BMW dealer a couple of months ago to check out a couple of e9x M3's... while there I figured I would take a look a M235i. When I inquired if they had any on the lot I got a confused look with the response "I don't think they make that". I had to pull out my phone and pull up their inventory show that the car exists.

[DeadManGonzo]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I'm in high-end sales -- in advertising for it, to be more specific. I've posted on other threads about the disconnects among and in between salespeople, potential customers, and products -- both in relation to car dealerships and the car-buying experience, and on a broader scale.

Two things to remember here:
1). With automobiles and in the Information Age, consumers are more likely to be knowledgeable about a potential purchase than the salesperson. Why? Consumers are typically focusing on 1-3 products, while salespeople have a much broader swath of product to know about. It's simple math -- or a narrow, intense beam of light compared to a more broad, diffuse beam. Common sense, really.
2). Attitude is everything.

When I buy a car, I don't expect the salesperson to know more about it than I. Not even close. No salesperson should expect to know more -- not in today's market, with today's populist resources. I do expect the salesperson to know more about the business of car buying than I -- but only barely. I also expect the salesperson to respect my level of knowledge regarding both, and be open-minded and enthusiastic about my level of knowledge -- and, in the end, happy that the sale of my new car to me brings me satisfaction not just because I'm getting a new car, but because my experience with him/her was positive.

Good salespeople know how to adjust their approach to selling on the fly, from individual to individual. They never assume -- but when they do, they don't voice it; they explore the assumption indirectly until proven correct or incorrect. They also realize that they can learn from their potential customers. When they don't or won't, they immediately lose potential sales -- as this person did with the OP.

Bottom line: find a dealership and a salesperson who don't treat you like a conquest. They should treat you like a partner. That's the attitude of any good salesperson, no matter what the product.

I agree with your bottom line however I disagree with your your first point. Most manufactures don't really have a unmanageable lineup... especially when you consider cross platform interchangeability.
I expect a high level of product knowledge from sales when purchasing higher end items, for me personally, it goes a long way to your point on building a partnership. If you are not as excited about your product as I am it just leaves a bad taste. There was a BBC show where a high end dealer swapped places with a used economy dealer. The high end dealership provided study time before letting the economy dealer interact with customers which caught him of guard as he figured he was a good salesman and they have an engine and 4 wheels.
Now I'm not saying you should know the name of the dude who painted the car but you should know what cars have x-drive.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by DeadManGonzo

I agree with your bottom line however I disagree with your your first point. Most manufactures don't really have a unmanageable lineup... especially when you consider cross platform interchangeability.
I expect a high level of product knowledge from sales when purchasing higher end items, for me personally, it goes a long way to your point on building a partnership. If you are not as excited about your product as I am it just leaves a bad taste. There was a BBC show where a high end dealer swapped places with a used economy dealer. The high end dealership provided study time before letting the economy dealer interact with customers which caught him of guard as he figured he was a good salesman and they have an engine and 4 wheels.
Now I'm not saying you should know the name of the dude who painted the car but you should know what cars have x-drive.

I feel that you severely underestimate the dynamism of the typical lineup of a car manufacturer, and how difficult it is to keep up with. Specs change all of the time; models change, abailable equipment lists change, etc. ... sometimes in the middle of a model year.

Think about how many models BMW alone has - 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, and 7-series; X1, X3, X5, X6; i3, i8; Z4. That's 13 models (off the top of my head), most of which have multiple engine choices, trim levels, drivetrain choices, hardtop/vert, performance versions (full 'M' and otherwise), etc. Then, the available options for not only each model, but each variant of a model. Then, available paint colors and interior trim packages. Then ... get my point now?

Yes: a salesperson should know the basic stuff, like model ranges and major selling points for each. But beyond that? No. Why? The potential for embarrasment by a customer, who likely has done some research and knows somewhat what is available in a particular model and variant, is too great, for one. A salesman at this stage should practice humility and 'go for a ride', if you will, with the customer's passion to enable it and close a sale. If I managed a sales staff that's what I would expect, anyway.

[Steve80bk]

You must know the basics. I never expect a salesman to know more than I do, but you should be able to hang since this is what you are selling. Gotta know which models exist n which don't. I also feel that in sales of all fields, knowing that extra information may make a customer more comfortable and feel more positive about spending their money. I don't expect them to know more than me like I stated, but if I find a salesperson that at least can hold their own weight information wise, its definitely a step in the right direction for them. I honestly don't care how many models there are today. If I know most of the info, even about cars I never had any intention of owning, then I don't see the problem with them knowing a little more about the product. I would tend to think people would rather deal with someone that knows more whether they have their mind made up or not about the car prior.

[Outrun]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Why not? He's just selling it, not building it. If he's got a good price and is an easy enough person to deal with, does it really matter if he knows less about the car than you do?

Heck, I imagine that many if not most of the folks on this board know more about the specs of their cars than their sales people. Why? Because we're obsessive-compulsive over cars, while for many sales people it's just a job. They don't really care.

I think this brings up an intersting point...would you rather deal with a salesperson who has no idea about the car they're selling but will give you a great deal, or someone with impressive in-depth knowledge of their product but won't budge on a price?

[EEBreh]

I have an estoril blue M235i that I picked up last june. Custom ordered it from BMW Newport. I shopped around many dealers in New England and they negotiated reasonably and I test drove an m235 with them already (they had a manual and an automatic, so I test drove both.) PM me if you want contact info. Also, a non xi should be fine if you have snowtires. I'm in south county.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by EEBreh

I have an estoril blue M235i that I picked up last june. Custom ordered it from BMW Newport. I shopped around many dealers in New England and they negotiated reasonably and I test drove an m235 with them already (they had a manual and an automatic, so I test drove both.) PM me if you want contact info. Also, a non xi should be fine if you have snowtires. I'm in south county.

Thanks Eebreh - someone else on this thread is from RI too we should do a meet. I'm headed to Herb Chambers of Sudbury this weekend to drive the M235i and 340i both x-drive. The 340 has the THP so it should be an interesting comparo.

[Merc for hire]

We need more salesman like this in Canada.
I am sick of all the XDrive models.