01-17-2014, 04:20 AM | #221 | |
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01-18-2014, 04:42 AM | #223 |
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01-18-2014, 02:45 PM | #224 |
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A third consecutive Dakar win for a diesel... not bad for a 'grocery getter'! If it can win the toughest rally in the whole world why isn't good enough for some abuse in a M2?! Isn't that the whole idea of EFFICIENT DYNAMICS?!
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01-20-2014, 07:19 AM | #225 |
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Before you step in in all this 'M235i, the new 2002' marketing , I urge you to read all the rave reviews about the 'mighty' M135i... any differences?!
http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/bmw/m135i http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/1-s...0610/bmw-m135i http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Drives/...12-CAR-review/ http://www.topgear.com/uk/bmw/1-seri...t/m135i-driven |
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01-20-2014, 08:49 AM | #227 | |||
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Aren't you tired of ALL this that goes on and on... Isn't about time for us to have something really special from BMW?! Something that really has to do with the EFFICIENT DYNAMICS motto?! I say M2 diesel!!! And you? |
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01-20-2014, 06:07 PM | #228 | |
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I always defended the notion that BMW should not go after Mercedes as far as 4-pot engine power is concerned. Instead, BMW M should achieve AMG babies' performance by an extensive weight reduction program, that's what will make the difference... that's what will turn a petrol M2 special. If BMW M could achieve that with no more than 300 hp from a 2.0L 4-pot petrol engine, i.e., to match the AMG babies' acceleration times then I would drop the whole diesel idea. For as much I wanted to believe in that, unfortunately I don't! You see, the Alfa Romeo 4C's EU weight is at worst 1100 kg and its 4-pot turbocharged engine delivers 245 hp for a 0-62 mph acceleration time of 4.5 s with a 6-speed double clutch transmission. The A45 AMG weighs 1555 kg (is lighter than CLA), its turbocharged 4-pot engine delivers 360 hp through a 7-speed double clutch transmission to achieve a 0-62mph acceleration time of 4.6s . So, if you limit the M2's 4-pot turbocharged engine to no more than 300 hp and want to achieve 0-62 mph in 4.5s, either you have to reduce the car weight in excess of 100 kg OR in the event of a lower weight reduction you will need a 9 or 10-speed double clutch transmission. I'm sorry to say it... but it ain't gonna happen guys. So, I stick with the M2 diesel option... special as it is!!! |
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01-21-2014, 06:39 AM | #230 | |
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This really made my day, it was something that I was waiting for since long, long time ago. Caterham came last in the grid in 2013 but I think they will improve this year with the new rules and Kobayashi's help. Albeit it's not Ferrari, I could not wish a happier combination than the one between a brand, Caterham, whose trademark is super lightweight cars manufacturing and Kobayashi today's most spectacular F1 driver. I'm sorry for this off-topic, but I'm really happy that fans still can have a word to say in this whole 'money jungle'... I'm really, really happy and I'm looking forward for this year's F1 championship. Thank you Caterham, you really know how to provide utterly FUN: |
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01-21-2014, 06:56 AM | #231 | |
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My car made front page of Bimmerpost
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01-21-2014, 10:43 AM | #232 | ||
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And, that's precisely what I'm talking about here, a triple-turbocharged engine for the M2. Why?! Because the technology already exists in BMW's cars, you can drop two cylinders and adapt it to a 4-pot engine, its throttle's response quality is on pair with the best turbocharged petrol engines and, last but not least, if BMW really is serious about EFFICIENT DYNAMICS today, if there's no hypocrisy about it, everybody knows that on a performance/fuel consumption ratio level nothing, I mean NOTHING, can beat late diesel engines. Add to that the huge torque reserves of a turbocharged diesel engine and the car low weight (always the most difficult and expensive part of the formula to achieve) is not of such critical concern as it is with its petrol counterpart. That would definitely be something special, something that every other car brand has yet to offer! Like with Kobayashi's case, we fans can still make some difference pointing towards the right solution... Quote:
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01-21-2014, 06:08 PM | #233 | ||
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SCOTT, I really hope you are being serious about this because I've already had enough excitement for one day. This must be the most important announcement you have ever made over the bimmerpost forums. This really means serious business... the Toyobaru and the Alfa 4C were definitely 'game changers'. BMW - Toyota - Kamui Kobayashi - Caterham - Lightweight - Alfa 4C - Carbon fiber - BMW The circle is finally starting to be closed!!!! Last edited by GoingTooFast; 01-21-2014 at 06:14 PM.. |
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01-21-2014, 06:32 PM | #234 |
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The ultimate goal of all this endless talk?! To be able to drive and pretend to be Kamui Kobayashi even if just for a moment... Pure Kobayashi:
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01-22-2014, 11:53 AM | #235 |
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Ok. Excitement aside let us focus on what would be the best, in the light of EFFICIENT DYNAMICS, 4-pot petrol turbocharged engine for the M2.
Since it was announced a so-called 'carbon fiber revolution' inside BMW and, ALLEGEDLY, car lightweight finally is being taken seriously the argument in favor of a sub 300hp 4-pot turbocharged petrol engine for the M2 is now overwhelming. The issue now is not what power but what engine DISPLACEMENT or capacity should be used on the M2's 4-pot in order to enhance its EFFICIENT DYNAMICS concept even further to the point of becoming a true benchmark for a 4-seater car. The answer lays in the PRINCE engine which is not a 2.0L engine but a 1.6L one. The PRINCE engine was co-developed by BMW and PSA Peugeot-Citroen and is found in models such as the Mini, BMW F20/F30 and the Peugeot RCZ which represent some of this engine's several different guises. However, it was precisely Peugeot, through Peugeot Sport - their motorsport division - the ones to take the PRINCE engine to its highest power rate benefiting of BMW's trademark technologies such as Valvetronic, direct injection and twin-scroll turbocharging with the 270 hp Peugeot RCZ - R!!! The result... well, you have to see what it does to the torquier 2.0L, 265 hp engined FWD N'ring recordist (8:07,97 min - faster than the 1M) on a drag race. Again, the difference lays on the RCZ R weight (the vid shows kerb weight, EU weight is kerb + 75 kg): As for the fuel consumption rate... 44.8 mpg!!! Last edited by GoingTooFast; 01-22-2014 at 12:11 PM.. |
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01-22-2014, 03:57 PM | #237 |
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Oh, that's nothing... you should have read those below. Anyway, thank you for changing that... Do you find any of them valuable, at least?
Subaru BRZ Concept STI - Amazing!!! Official: Alfa Romeo 4C |
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01-23-2014, 11:25 AM | #238 |
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I really don't know the extension of the so-called BMW's 'carbon fiber revolution' and how much of it will go into the M2. What I do know is that the Megane RS Cup, N'ring recordist for a FWD car (8:07,97 min), is a 4-seater and that the Peugeot RCZ R, which is faster than the former on a 1000 m drag race, is a 2+2 like the Porsche 911. Both are Coupes, both are FWD and both have 6-speed manual gearboxes.
If we take the 6-speed manual version of the M235i we find that its EU weight is 1530kg. On the other hand, (1) the Megane EU weight is (1387 + 75) kg = 1462 kg and (2) the RCZ R EU weight is (1280 + 75) = 1355 kg !!! Now, let's find out how much weight the M235i would have to loose in order to match the EU weight of each of the other two: (1) 1530 kg - 1462 kg = 68 kg (150 lbs) (2) 1530 kg - 1355 kg = 175 kg (385.8 lbs) So, 150 lbs is the absolute minimum weight advantage that the M2 should have over the M235i, with a sub-300 hp, 2.0L 4-pot engine - this is feasible and realistic! Why is this particular target important?! Because the M2 should also be faster than the fastest of the FWD cars around the N'ring, which right know means faster than the Megane RS Cup - watch out for the new 2.0L and 280 hp Honda Civic Type-R which was built to beat the Megane around the N'ring! Ok, so far we have the M2's minium weight gain (150 lbs) and the maximum engine power rate which should cover the new CTR engine's power rate, somewhere between 280 and 300 hp (I say 286 hp or 210 KW, like the 1st E36 M3 generation) !!! Knowing that Peugeot Sport was able to get 270 hp out of the turbocharged 1.6L PRINCE engine, BMW M should be able to get 286 hp out of a similar engine instead of using a 2.0L engine. This is true EFFICIENT DYNAMICS !!! Now that we have a M2 faster than any FWD 4-seater car around the N'ring we can start dreaming... And that my friends would mean cut 385.8 lbs out of the M235i weight and enter RCZ R and Cayman territory which clearly is NOT realistic for a M2 from a cost perspective having the M235i as a development base. Last time BMW did something similarly radical was with the E46 M3 CSL and the price jumped sky high for "just" 242.5 lbs of weight saving. Last edited by GoingTooFast; 01-23-2014 at 12:28 PM.. |
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01-23-2014, 03:38 PM | #239 |
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Of course that when you trade a 2.0L for a 1.6L engine you have to adjust for the torque loss with the weight.
So, in practice for a 1.6L M2 with 286 hp to beat the Megane around the N‘ring, aerodynamics and chassis tuning aside, the M2 weight must be lower than that of the Megane. Hence, one of the reasons why I‘ve started by pointing out that the ideal weight gain over the M235i would be not 150 lbs but 220 lbs (100 kg). If BMW M can't fulfill this goal and become an EFFICIENT DYNAMICS benchmark as far as a 4-pot petrol engined 4-seater goes then a much torquier triple-turbo diesel must be used on the M2. |
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01-27-2014, 06:18 AM | #240 | |
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For those in doubt between a 2nd hand Cayman or a M235i, or even between waiting for a M2 or giving the new Cayman a shot, I would like to share with you how independent a magazine review can be:
Alfa Romeo 4C vs Cayman on a track Quote:
Last edited by GoingTooFast; 01-27-2014 at 10:23 AM.. |
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02-02-2014, 08:46 AM | #241 | |
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It's time for BMW to make a statement and that's not about sheer power... I really hope the M2 will be something else:
Record year for Mercedes-AMG Quote:
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02-04-2014, 06:29 AM | #242 | |
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Here's one of the explanations to why I've been favoring the diesel solution in the future M2 - its BIGGER low end torque:
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