THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BIMMERPOST Universal Forums Professional Motorsport Racing Discussion (IMSA, DTM, Formula 1, Grand-AM, Le Mans, IRL, WRC, etc..) F1 2021: Qatar GP - Losail (Nov 21)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      11-25-2021, 01:18 AM   #595
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Mercedes wasn't even fastest in Brazil....

At the speed trap area Mercedes (339kph) was 4kph ahead of mazepin (335 kph) who was second fastest. At the finish line Mercedes (340.3 kph) was 3rd fastest behind Norris (347 kph) and Kimi (340.4 kph).
https://www.google.com/amp/s/f1i.com...m-all.html/amp

I don't see you complaining about the others having jet mode... Redbull was just stupid slow, so that's a redbull problem not a Mercedes problem.



As per usual you just let the hate of Mercedes blind you from reality.
I hate anyone I suspect is cheating, you apparently don't.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 01:20 AM   #596
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
And that was made by people speculating what is occurring, and it could very well be flexing in that manner. But since the wing passed the tests any flexing is within the regulated limits and thus all your points are moot.
The wing in question, the one that was on the car in Brazil was not tested.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 01:44 AM   #597
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
I hate anyone I suspect is cheating, you apparently don't.
Innocent until proven guilty, if you can prove mercedes is cheating I will call them out on it.

Otherwise if you hate without proof, then you imply you also hate max and redbull for cheating with their flexi wing which was caught and they had to change it, and if you also don't care about facts and only speculate max cheated by heating the tires higher than normal to get a higher pressure reading than what it was supposed to be - i.e. cheating with tire pressures. That caused the blow out. Since you don't care about facts then that's what we have.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
The wing in question, the one that was on the car in Brazil was not tested.
Proof?
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 01:45 AM   #598
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

This is the link for all the top speed charts in quali, sprint quali, and the race:
https://maxf1.net/en/2021-brazilian-...eed-advantage/




- Lewis was never the fastest one, near the top but never the fastest one.
- Max was always near the bottom of the top speeds.


[IMG]


Qualifying:
Sprint qualifying:
- Lewis was fastest at the speed trap and intermediate 1 locations. At the finish line norris was the fastest, and at intermediate 2 leclerc was the fastest.

- Max again near the bottom.




During the race:
Lewis was never the fastest. AT the espeed trap sainz was the fastest, at the finish line gasly was the fastest, at the intermediate 1 postition gasly was the fastest, and at intermediate 2 perez was the fastest.

- max was at the bottom again.



Now before we go bezerk on the data, we need to note a few things: sprint quali and the race is not fair to max because he was leading most of the time so no drs or slip stream. So qualifying is more accurate as you have drs on tap.

However this completely debunks the myth that lewis had some kind if "jet mode" speed. This simply was not true. What we also notice is max is consistently at the bottom in terms of slow speed, so this is a max and redbull problem - even yuki and pierre were faster than max so it's not really honda either...


So it turns out you guys are once again projecting, you say we only listen to toto (who you say is a lair) for data - well looks like you are listening to the misleading and lying horner who exaggerates mercedes' and their speed.


Again I am fact checking you guys, even though you say you have alot of "knowledge" in this sport you know what is right and what is wrong. Well again I am proving you wrong with data to support it.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 4
EdM53852.50
Steeler2422.00
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 01:50 AM   #599
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

So Rick and Mpower - where is this mercedes jet speed you are talking about? Or are you guys making stuff up again? Likely you are just listening to horner lie and making stuff up because I see no data on your end.


In reality the speed delta is because redbull is slow not because mercedes is abnormally fast.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 2
Steeler2422.00
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 04:31 AM   #600
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Innocent until proven guilty, if you can prove mercedes is cheating I will call them out on it.

Otherwise if you hate without proof, then you imply you also hate max and redbull for cheating with their flexi wing which was caught and they had to change it, and if you also don't care about facts and only speculate max cheated by heating the tires higher than normal to get a higher pressure reading than what it was supposed to be - i.e. cheating with tire pressures. That caused the blow out. Since you don't care about facts then that's what we have.



Proof?
The speed of the Merc at Brazil was phenomenal,so how do you explain his pace without your figures? Ham-was-faster,I saw it on the screen not the figures, how do you know the figures are correct
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 07:31 AM   #601
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12138
Rep
3,455
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bongoxxx View Post
But, but, but…if Max made a ‘smart’ move he would have went wide and avoided any contact. He was leading the WDC and would have been well ahead in the standings if he ended up finishing second instead of a DNF.

“Almost pulled it off”. Almost only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

Hamilton didn’t even remotely try to hit the apex but Max though he would in Brazil? Come on let’s be serious. Max went in hot, and missed the apex with elbows out, Hamilton was smart and went wide to avoid contact. Hamilton went in an missed the apex, Max turned in hoping Hamilton would back out….that split second, IMO stupid decision, may cost him the WDC.
Just an opinion from a Ferrari fan biased WAY toward VER over HAM.

Smart? I never said it was smart. But I highly doubt VER would turn in at that speed not believing he was clear. Could it cost him a WDC? Thinking it already has along with other mishaps.

I also don't think the incident in Brazil is a fair comparison.

Get serious? I am serious and have my own opinion. Most everyone here knows I use HAM when I'm serious and nick names when I'm just goofing or pissed off

Anyway, it's Thanksgiving here in the US...Everybody enjoy and be safe!!!

Lastly, Please, DON'T DRINK AND DRIVE

UBER or LYFT is a lot cheaper!!!!!!
Appreciate 3
minn1913970.00
Bongoxxx804.00
      11-25-2021, 08:38 AM   #602
Killed by Death
Brigadier General
Killed by Death's Avatar
12138
Rep
3,455
Posts

Drives: '23 X3 M40i
Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
[B][U]...cheating with their flexi wing which was caught and they had to change it
With all due respect, since I know you are kinda neutral, RB wasn't cheating with their Flexi wing. It passed all tests and they, along with other teams, were given several weeks to adapt and pass the new test. Also, no fines or penalties were given.

On the other hand, MB's front wing is way more Flexi than others as seen from wing cam. But the FIA is letting it slide and telling other teams to catch up.

Double standard to me. I don't believe tests and regulations should be changed mid-season. If a car passes all tests at the beginning of the season it should be fair ALL season IMHO.

I hold the same opinion for MB's rear wing which seems to be the current controversy.
Appreciate 4
Steeler2422.00
M5Rick58873.50
minn1913970.00
F87source7177.50
      11-25-2021, 09:25 AM   #603
minn19
Lieutenant General
minn19's Avatar
13970
Rep
10,061
Posts

Drives: 24 Z06, 23 CT4VBW, 22 PFinder
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Minnesota

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
I hate anyone I suspect is cheating, you apparently don't.


Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
The speed of the Merc at Brazil was phenomenal,so how do you explain his pace without your figures? Ham-was-faster,I saw it on the screen not the figures, how do you know the figures are correct


This is possibly your best troll yet! MB/Mercafia strikes again apparently!
Appreciate 3
Steeler2422.00
3798j11165.50
F87source7177.50
      11-25-2021, 09:35 AM   #604
Steeler
Colonel
Steeler's Avatar
2422
Rep
2,697
Posts

Drives: Built not Bought 04 Z4 VF
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Kitchener Ontario Canada

iTrader: (2)

Dickie has laser eyes. Eyes don't lie apparently. Wow, that statement is so out there it's hard to quantify.
__________________
W2A Intercooled Vortech V3Si, custom ducting, Alpha N, 60# Bosch,2.62 pulley, multi port WMI, Severn Tuning(pokeybritches), Tial, magnaflow,SS race muffler, 42 design,3.91LSD, H&R, Hotchkis,ST coils,Konis, Megan camber arms, AKG SS, Nylon mounts, Poly bushings, Carbon interior, CF Aero.APEX
Appreciate 2
minn1913970.00
F87source7177.50
      11-25-2021, 10:06 AM   #605
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3805
Rep
4,655
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Innocent until proven guilty, if you can prove mercedes is cheating I will call them out on it.

Otherwise if you hate without proof, then you imply you also hate max and redbull for cheating with their flexi wing which was caught and they had to change it, and if you also don't care about facts and only speculate max cheated by heating the tires higher than normal to get a higher pressure reading than what it was supposed to be - i.e. cheating with tire pressures. That caused the blow out. Since you don't care about facts then that's what we have.



Proof?
The speed of the Merc at Brazil was phenomenal,so how do you explain his pace without your figures? [COLOR="Black"]Ham-was-faster,[/COLOR]I saw it on the screen not the figures, how do you know the figures are correct
No one knows but the argument is that it wasnt necessarily sheer pace of the Mercedes, it was that RB just lacked pace that day which made the Mercedes seem faster than it really was whether you want to point at PU or wing.
Appreciate 2
minn1913970.00
F87source7177.50
      11-25-2021, 12:20 PM   #606
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls View Post
No one knows but the argument is that it wasnt necessarily sheer pace of the Mercedes, it was that RB just lacked pace that day which made the Mercedes seem faster than it really was whether you want to point at PU or wing.
RB did have a small problem with their drs activation arm being too stiff making the moveable wing flap at times to vibratate forcing the team to revert to an earlier wing for more stability. This has now been modified for the latest wing to work optimally.

Last edited by M5Rick; 11-25-2021 at 12:30 PM..
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 02:19 PM   #607
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium View Post
Jane . That's what we are talking about !
It's all very well for Masi to stand up for the marshall waving a yellow erroneously inside the barrier but Horner was spot on speaking up as Gasly continued to drive as not to impede other cars so the warning was unjustified. Max and BOT should never have received grid penalties, Masi simply overreacted unnecessarilly.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 02:22 PM   #608
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
The speed of the Merc at Brazil was phenomenal,so how do you explain his pace without your figures? Ham-was-faster,I saw it on the screen not the figures, how do you know the figures are correct
Because being fast around a track is not directly proportional to straight line speed alone, cornering speed, downforce generation - related to braking (this is a huge reason why road cars can't brake with as much g forces as an F1 car, the next is mechanical grip of the tires)... If you knew F1 as well as you said you did you wouldn't have to pull things out of thin air to try to explain a phenomenon you see on tv, you'd be able to think more logically instead jumping straight to nonsense.

So the Mercedes may not be the fastest on track but it certainly up there hence why you see it being able to close the gap on nearly every car on the field. Then nothing else on the field holds a candle to the w12 in terms of downforce generation (redbull excluded) so it can out brake and out corner the rest of the field hence why overtaking was so easy looking (if you're not Bottas). So that's the logical explanation based on given facts in formula 1.


Next the figures are from the F1 taken radar traps, the same figures you see during the races in the bottom corner of the screen. So they've been taken via radar or lidar, which is much more accurate than what you see because you're insanely biased against Mercedes and so far you've only attributed everything to top speed and neglected every other factor.


Again all you've provided was "I saw this", I "I saw that" etc etc but no data. You literally have nothing to stand on, except your unnatural hate towards Mercedes in this debate.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 0
      11-25-2021, 02:24 PM   #609
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed by Death View Post
With all due respect, since I know you are kinda neutral, RB wasn't cheating with their Flexi wing. It passed all tests and they, along with other teams, were given several weeks to adapt and pass the new test. Also, no fines or penalties were given.

On the other hand, MB's front wing is way more Flexi than others as seen from wing cam. But the FIA is letting it slide and telling other teams to catch up.

Double standard to me. I don't believe tests and regulations should be changed mid-season. If a car passes all tests at the beginning of the season it should be fair ALL season IMHO.

I hold the same opinion for MB's rear wing which seems to be the current controversy.
It was meant to highlight the double standards mpower and Rick have towards Mercedes vs. redbull. Even when a rumour is spread about Merc they go wild, but when it's redbull they're quiet.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 2
________4157.00
Steeler2422.00
      11-25-2021, 03:11 PM   #610
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Because being fast around a track is not directly proportional to straight line speed alone, cornering speed, downforce generation - related to braking (this is a huge reason why road cars can't brake with as much g forces as an F1 car, the next is mechanical grip of the tires)... If you knew F1 as well as you said you did you wouldn't have to pull things out of thin air to try to explain a phenomenon you see on tv, you'd be able to think more logically instead jumping straight to nonsense.

So the Mercedes may not be the fastest on track but it certainly up there hence why you see it being able to close the gap on nearly every car on the field. Then nothing else on the field holds a candle to the w12 in terms of downforce generation (redbull excluded) so it can out brake and out corner the rest of the field hence why overtaking was so easy looking (if you're not Bottas). So that's the logical explanation based on given facts in formula 1.


Next the figures are from the F1 taken radar traps, the same figures you see during the races in the bottom corner of the screen. So they've been taken via radar or lidar, which is much more accurate than what you see because you're insanely biased against Mercedes and so far you've only attributed everything to top speed and neglected every other factor.


Again all you've provided was "I saw this", I "I saw that" etc etc but no data. You literally have nothing to stand on, except your unnatural hate towards Mercedes in this debate.
So much gobbledegook from you and claiming to be a neutral, I say you're a liar and a Merc fan.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 03:17 PM   #611
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
So much gobbledegook from you and claiming to be a neutral, I say you're a liar and a Merc fan.
Highlight the portions that is "gobbledegook" and explain why with science and facts. If you can't then you're full of yourself.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 03:37 PM   #612
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
Highlight the portions that is "gobbledegook" and explain why with science and facts. If you can't then you're full of yourself.
You stick with your meaningless figures and I'll judge with my eyes, what is clear to me now is that you hate RB.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 03:42 PM   #613
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
You stick with your meaningless figures and I'll judge with my eyes, what is clear to me now is that you hate RB.
And just like that you are full of crap, if something doesn't look the way you want it to look , i.e. mercedes being the fastest in a striaght line to fulfill the narrative mercedes is cheating with their "jet mode" then you refuse to accept it. That is a denial of reality and a sign of being deluded beyond reason, you guys no longer have any credibility, because you do not stick with facts you stick with feelings.


How do I hate RB? Because I am defending mercedes against baseless accusations? I would defend any team even RB if accusations are baseless, but you guys literally only bully mercedes so they are the only ones who need defending.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 03:45 PM   #614
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...d-bull-claims/

This one goes into a detailed analysis on the speed delta between mercedes and redbull, and it is nowhere near the "unraceable" 20kph+ difference that horner says it is.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 1
minn1913970.00
      11-25-2021, 03:49 PM   #615
M5Rick
General
M5Rick's Avatar
58874
Rep
19,241
Posts

Drives: M5 F10 DCT Gunmetal
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Southern England

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by F87source View Post
And just like that you are full of crap, if something doesn't look the way you want it to look , i.e. mercedes being the fastest in a striaght line to fulfill the narrative mercedes is cheating with their "jet mode" then you refuse to accept it. That is a denial of reality and a sign of being deluded beyond reason, you guys no longer have any credibility, because you do not stick with facts you stick with feelings.


How do I hate RB? Because I am defending mercedes against baseless accusations? I would defend any team even RB if accusations are baseless, but you guys literally only bully mercedes so they are the only ones who need defending.
The deluded one is you and are doing your upmost to put RB down with your nonsense, anything you say is more gobbledegook with no meaning, you're nothing but a Ham altar boy in disguise.
Appreciate 1
      11-25-2021, 03:59 PM   #616
F87source
Major General
F87source's Avatar
No_Country
7178
Rep
7,341
Posts

Drives: Bmw M2
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: .

iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by M5Rick View Post
The deluded one is you and are doing your upmost to put RB down with your nonsense, anything you say is more gobbledegook with no meaning, you're nothing but a Ham altar boy in disguise.
Right because showing the out right performance figures that completely debunks your narrative on mercedes being the fastest because of their cheating wing and cheating engine is "gobbledegook". Meanwhile you guys have zero backing for your claims with credible data of any kind and rely solely on feelings and biased personal observations, and that is totally acceptable. If what I am saying is nonsense why can you not highlight the nonsensical part and debunk it with fact? Right because all you can do is talk, and there is even more detailed analysis out there pointing that the gap between mercedes and rb isn't as significant as rb claims. This also goes against your view that max is some kind of super human driver and he is holding off lewis in a cheating car - so another reason you can't accept the truth because it would mean max isn't as super human as you make him out to be. (This isn't degrading max, he is damn good and a generation talent, but you guys hype him up far too much by gas lightining mercedes)

And debunked again, if you were in a real debate that would have been the end of it the moment you started changing the subject and unable to counter the data.


Also note, I have not even made an attempt to pull redbull down, I am debunking your myths about mercedes and used relational comparisons to redbull.
__________________
Click on the link below to see a compiled list of every review I have ever written:
https://f87.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh...2#post30368242
Appreciate 3
________4157.00
minn1913970.00
Bongoxxx804.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:11 AM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST