[aerobod]

Originally Posted by dradernh

Were the stock rotors prone to what seemed to be premature cracking?

Yes, one set replaced due to micro cracking. We did manage to extend the pad and rotor life with brake cooling modified to change the standard ducts that send air into the vicinity of the inside of the wheels to accurately duct it right to the rotor surface with some 3” flexi hose. I’d posted in the brake thread some while ago about the problem he had with the Powerstop brake pad delamination, too.

Overall cooling is the bane of C5 Z06 Corvettes for track use, upgrades everywhere with about $5K needed for cooling mods outside of brake upgrades: larger radiator, oil cooler, steering cooler, transmission and diff coolers (with electric pumps).

[TwoTonic]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Although the C5 Z06 can be a great track car, there are a number of weak points that need to be addressed for harder track use.

Isn't that statement valid for most street cars?

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by TwoTonic

Isn't that statement valid for most street cars?

It is, but it's also highly variable, with weight and power explaining a good deal of the variability.

Miatas, Twins, E30s, and lighter, lower-powered BMWs don't encounter the same issues in that regard as do the heavier, higher-powered cars like ours. This shows up as increased tire wear, much higher demands on braking components, and, in some cars, overheating issues. In our cars, when they get too hot it means reduced power output, which doesn't make much difference in lap times on any but the really high-speed tracks.

My 2¢ on the subject.

[MarcoZandrini]

I've tracked my car several times at Virginia International Raceway and Summit Point tracks. I pushed the car hard including bumping against the rev limiter in 4th gear (~135mph), waiting until the last second to slam on the brakes (the car has PF-08 pads), etc. The oil temperature never budged above the usual 225*F. The car feelkt rock steady under all track circumstances. The BMW engineers got it right!

[DistantTea]

Guys... I'm really enjoying the Forester as an everyday car. I even spent the first two days paint correcting and ceramic coating it, something I wish I had done with my M240i. I don't regret my decision to leave the fold at all. Now I can get a performance car that doesn't have to be an everyday driver and maybe I won't have to scream at the steering all week.

[XutvJet]

We've had a 2015 Subaru Outback 3.6R in our stable since new. It's now my 16 y/o son's. Shortly before we gave it to him, we put an awesome of set of wheels and off-road tires on it. I also did OEM black wheel arch moldings, an OEM Legacy blacked out grill, and did the foglights in yellow vinyl.

The car has been quite reliable and the H6 motor is a must because the base 4 bangers are serious weak sauce. As for the CVT (which is an upgraded HD unit for the H6 and turbo motors), it's smooth, but DEAR GOD it makes me want to punch babies. Every time I drive it I can't help but think how much better it would be with a proper 6 to 8 speed planetary automatic. It would be faster, quicker, and likely get better MPGs. Subaru made a grave mistake by putting all their hope in the CVT. It wasn't the answer, the multi gear planetary automatics were the answer and now they are way behind the competition.

[morphomeman]

How did we wander this far? Now we are discussing the virtues of CVT transmissions!!

[cristo]

If you want to throw up in your
mouth a little, check out the
durability issues with the CVT
that BMW chose for the first
generation R50 MINI Coopers.

[DistantTea]

I think the current gen forester CVT is excellent and it has proven itself to be excellent for years. The only problem is coming from the ZF8HP which was apparently tuned by nordic gods and can read minds. Comparing them is not a fair fight. I very much like my CVT for the type of driving I have to do most of the year.

BTW the vehicle I sold before I got my M240 was a 2017 Subaru Forester. This is actually my fourth Subaru in twenty years and second one with the CVT. It matches me pretty well.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by morphomeman

How did we wander this far? Now we are discussing the virtues of CVT transmissions!!

Why do you mention “virtues” in the plural?

(Should also say I had a Crosstrek for a couple of years back in Michigan as my winter/errands car, and despite the low power, it was fun to knock around in and always did the job very well!)

[spidy512]

DistantTea,

I too came from a heavy Subaru background. I traded my 18 STi for the M240i, and that was my 3rd Sti. I have also had three WRX's, one 2.5 RS sedan with a USDM WRX BAR'd motor swap (#2 in the country), another 2.5 RS coupe, as well as 2 Outback's.

They are great cars and I can understand why you like them. The AWD is the best in the biz and they are incredibly utilitarian while maintaining a sense of fun. Not to mention they retain their value incredibly well.

Glad you found your daily, and good luck with the weekend/fun car!

josh

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

I think the current gen forester CVT is excellent and it has proven itself to be excellent for years. The only problem is coming from the ZF8HP which was apparently tuned by nordic gods and can read minds. Comparing them is not a fair fight. I very much like my CVT for the type of driving I have to do most of the year.

BTW the vehicle I sold before I got my M240 was a 2017 Subaru Forester. This is actually my fourth Subaru in twenty years and second one with the CVT. It matches me pretty well.

I just can't stand the elastic sensation or the engine drone under heavy/moderate throttle. The CVT in the non-turbo/H6 cars is dismal and one of the worst I've ever driven (I rent tons of cars for work). Sure, I have 6 fake gears to use in the 2015 Outback 3.6R, but it still feels terrible. A CVT teamed with the torque converter is about as disconnected a driving experience as you can get, IMO.

With all that said, the off-road and winter capability of Subarus is impressive. We've had at least one Subaru in our stable since 2000 and they've included a 1998 Legacy GT wagon, 2007 Outback 2.5 LL Bean, 2012 WRX, and currently the 2015 Outback 3.6R. These cars are also generally easy to work on for a DIYer like myself and parts are cheap because Subaru does so much parts bin sharing. Our Subarus have been quite reliable including my prior 2012 WRX which have glass EJ25 turbo motors.

[DistantTea]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I just can't stand the elastic sensation or the engine drone under heavy/moderate throttle.

The Forester CVT does not feel that way. It's pretty widely reported as being a better-than-usual CVT and engine combo but I do get it. If you aren't a steady-state driver CVTs are probably pretty crappy compared to a torque converter that can lock up as you spin up and down the RPMs.

[ggggbmw]

Originally Posted by DistantTea

The Forester CVT does not feel that way. It's pretty widely reported as being a better-than-usual CVT and engine combo but I do get it. If you aren't a steady-state driver CVTs are probably pretty crappy compared to a torque converter that can lock up as you spin up and down the RPMs.

My previous car was an Altima V6 with a CVT. Unlike most little 4 cylinders with a CVT, the Altima CVT was tuned to work with the excellent torque of the V6. Absolutely no comparison to a whiny little econobox CVT.

I LOVED how smooth that car accelerated. It felt like driving an electric. Just one big long whoosh to 80+! After that, even the excellent ZF8 in our cars feels clunky, with all the bumps as it works through 8 gears.

[pikcachu]

what i hate about the CVT is that it's like you are always in first gear

[MarcoZandrini]

I don't need no stinkin' AWD.

[DistantTea]

Originally Posted by MarcoZandrini

I don't need no stinkin' AWD.

I truly believe if I had gotten a RWD M240i 6spd I would have kept it forever but instead compromised and ended up eternally disappointed.

[spidy512]

I love my xDrive. I know I am totally on my own on this, but I find the awd on this car to be decent. No, not Subaru good. But pretty dang good.

Qualifier is that 98% of the "performance" cars I have owned were/are AWD. I am confident it is my crutch, and I am a terrible driver. HAHA.

josh

PS. I almost forgot. It was also because I lived in Truckee/Tahoe for 30 years. I kinda needed it.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by spidy512

I love my xDrive. I know I am totally on my own on this, but I find the awd on this car to be decent. No, not Subaru good. But pretty dang good.

Qualifier is that 98% of the "performance" cars I have owned were/are AWD. I am confident it is my crutch, and I am a terrible driver. HAHA.

josh

PS. I almost forgot. It was also because I lived in Truckee/Tahoe for 30 years. I kinda needed it.

Here's the question I always have, and it comes from having grown up in CO, WY, MT, and ND in the 50s: however did those RWD cars with their, compared to today, really chitty tires, make it through winters tougher than Truckee typically had and has?

IOW, how hard is it really to drive a RWD car in challenging winter conditions if the dads, grandpas, and great-grandpas did it with dramatically worse equipment? This is the question I keep coming back to.

[Gepeto]

dradernh You’re so right!

I’m in Montreal. I daily my M235i all year. It’s RWD of course, because I wanted it manual but also because I don’t enjoy AWD as much on most cars. It’s fine. I don’t have a good diff on the car (when I ordered it in 2014 the M Performance Diff wasn’t an option yet - definitely upgrading that next year), so getting started from a stop on ice is often a little slow and annoying.

I have access to my wife’s SUV in the winter but almost always elect to use the M235i. I really don’t find it harder to drive than anything else if you leave the assists on, I guess you just need to be patient when taking off from a stop, and not park it in a huge snowbank or you might get stuck.

Would I own just the M235i if I lived on the top of a steep hill where it snows? Probably not.
Is RWD for a daily completely fine and not more dangerous almost every single day of the year? Absolutely.

I also had a 240sx, and a Volvo 760GLE that I dailied. Granted, the heavy 760GLE with studded tires was a beast on ice, and the 240sx without traction control could get a bit out of shape easily, but I preferred the overall experience to that of owning a 2011 WRX which was fun in mega snowstorms but always felt more like a FWD to me.

[aerobod]

I don’t think there is anywhere in Canada that has paved roads where a RWD car with the appropriate winter tyres can’t be used year round. We actually have ice racing with RWD classes in the local car club. This was my ski vehicle for about 7 years, 190cm skis or shorter with the tails in the passenger footwell and tips between the seat headrests worked fine, easiest to get them in and out with the roof down:

[p912guy]

Agree @dradernh. Not only did our parents and grandparents not have 4WD, they also didn't have ABS and the roads weren't as good either. I grew up in Wisconsin and spent lots of time in Minnesota. My father in-law always drove 2WD pickup trucks, that is until a sharp salesman talked him a 4WD GMC Sierra back in the early 2000's, mostly because he didn't have nice 2WD truck on the lot to sell him. My father in-law never got comfortable with that truck. It was just a bit to high for my mother in-law to climb up into. It's the only truck he owned for less than 6 years or more. In fact he traded it for a RWD truck in less than two years. The real game changer back in the day for folks in the snow (rust) belt was FWD Hondas, Toyotas and Datsun / Nissans. My dad's first FWD vehicle was 1975 Audi Fox wagon and even though is it was piece of sh*t, he always had FWD Hondas after that.