[MKSixer]

New Thread...

We all love Formula One and the technology associated with it. Let's discuss the technology without the following:

Drivers
FIA and F1 politics
Accusations of cheating
Ad hominem attacks
Any combination of the above.

All are welcome as long as you adhere to the rules here. If you can't...please stay out. I'm on quite a few F1 boards, internationally, and this is one of the worst. Let's make it better by creating a real technical thread to discuss THE CARS and nothing about personnel but for technical department updates and movement.

Cheers-mk

DISCUSS!!

[erickonphoenix]

We only had one TV growing up, so what Dad watched we all watched. My dad grew up a NASCAR fan but studied physics in Munich and started following F1 while he was there. He generally watched NASCAR, Indy, NHRA but if they had an F1 race on we always watched that.

So, over the years I've always had a race going on during the weekends as I putter in the shop or hang on the patio. But I never really immersed myself in it from a technical standpoint in spite of the fact I've watched every season since the mid 80s.

Looking forward to learning more technical aspects of the sport here and seeing some good convo on how the sport has evolved and is evolving.

[apexit4]

The Alpine this year has gone for a very interesting airbox solution as its much wider and bulkier than the rest of the competition. If I remember correctly, they wanted to slim down the side pods to get more airflow on the floor so some of the radiators usually mounted in the side pods were moved up top by the air box, hence the bulkiness.

I cant help to think that this may have played a role in them falling down the pecking order. Aside from moving the center of gravity higher, I imagine directing airflow to the rear spoiler has become more of a challenge.

[yco]

Originally Posted by apexit4

The Alpine this year has gone for a very interesting airbox solution as its much wider and bulkier than the rest of the competition. If I remember correctly, they wanted to slim down the side pods to get more airflow on the floor so some of the radiators usually mounted in the side pods were moved up top by the air box, hence the bulkiness.

I cant help to think that this may have played a role in them falling down the pecking order. Aside from moving the center of gravity higher, I imagine directing airflow to the rear spoiler has become more of a challenge.

i dont understand why Renault still not using split turbo.. Honda started to use as well but since F1 will continue to use these engines, it really looks like they should have started to change the engine like that and using some tokens for it..

Renault is interestingly quite confident with the solution they came up with.. eventhough im not aerodynamicist or something.. it is obvious that surface area is bigger than last year and since its in the middle of the car, either way car became more wind sensitive or just nailed it..

actually their sidepod design hasnt changed that much.. but i guess they made this for using more efficient rear floor performance.. in power tracks their lack of horsepower is more obvious.. Bahrain more was a power track than Imola.. Alonso started the race 9th but Ocon was way behind.. who knows maybe he had to use much less downforce than he wanted..

i believe they really need to tweak the engine urgently.. which seems impossible this year as far as i remember because of the regulations this year.. since there will be one engine update for the whole year.. maybe they didnt want to risk.. reliability wise..

[apexit4]

Yeah, thats a good question about why Renault havent split the turbo yet. I believe Ferrari are running a split turbo as well, so that just leaves Renault with the "conventional" set up. To clarify, the token system does not encompass the engine (last time I checked, at least).

Considering that the engines are effectively frozen from next year until the new regulations in 2025, it would appear that their engine disadvantage will be holding them back for quite a while. If Ferrari's engine updates for next year are successful, Renault will be back at the bottom of the engine pecking order...

[apexit4]

Moving on, I recently learned of a fascinating concept referred to as "Driver Resolution" by McLaren's James Key. In essence it means that today's F1 cars provide so much feedback so quickly that the driver cant physically process it fast enough and has to drive on instinct. I know that instinct does play a large role in many racing series, but I think F1 is unique in how rapidly that feedback in provided and how rapidly a driver has to react.

Here's a link to a neat podcast I found last year where they touch on this subject for a few minutes, definitely worth listening to the 5 or so minutes they discuss this concept. I know this isn't an F1 tech topic per-se, but I think it's still relevant. I'll just leave you with a quote from the podcast that really stuck with me to wet your appetite: "(we're) reaching the threshold of what human beings can peddle around a racetrack". I find that fascinating because I always thought the limiting factor in speed around a track would be the car, not the driver. But it appears that with today's F1 cars, its the other way around. Aside from underlining just how talented these drivers are, I think its super cool to hear

EDIT: Not sure how to embed a video with a specific starting point, so here's the link that will take you directly to the driver resolution conversation at 26:00: https://www.youtube.com/embed/CT1u5qk0Xj4?start=1560

And here's the link to the full video if anyone is too lazy to pull it up in a separate tab Just fast forward to the 26:00 minute mark.

[yco]

i guess its been more than a year that McLaren came up with this solution but still not backed by FIA.. actually as far as i remember they werent allowed to use them and still.. probably safety reasons but its a very good way of lowering carbon deposits.. 75% lower.. its a very good number..

http://compositesmanufacturingmagazi...omposite-seat/

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by yco

i guess its been more than a year that McLaren came up with this solution but still not backed by FIA.. actually as far as i remember they werent allowed to use them and still.. probably safety reasons but its a very good way of lowering carbon deposits.. 75% lower.. its a very good number..

http://compositesmanufacturingmagazi...omposite-seat/

I'm pretty sure McLaren is using that seat this season. Come to think of it, I believe there was a comment made on these seats during coverage of one of the practice sessions for the GP at Imola.

The biggest downside with these seats at the moment is that they are about 30% heavier than their traditional counterparts if memory serves me right. I know teams try and save every gram but a 30% increase in weight over a seat thats already quite light isnt as bad as, say, a 30% increase in weight of the moncoque/survival cell.

You make a good point though. If the FIA and F1 want to promote sustainability and reach a net zero carbon goal, then this should be an easy win.

[rcracin]

I’m interested in seeing if Aston Martin’s appeal to the new regulations will have any effect. Sure, they copied the Merc car, but that costs money. Then they get new regulations aimed specifically at harming their design. Not very fair in a cost cap environment nor for a lower budget team.

And on another note:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...AdTpdGKWi.html

[yco]

Originally Posted by rcracin

I’m interested in seeing if Aston Martin’s appeal to the new regulations will have any effect. Sure, they copied the Merc car, but that costs money. Then they get new regulations aimed specifically at harming their design. Not very fair in a cost cap environment nor for a lower budget team.

And on another note:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...AdTpdGKWi.html

yeah.. Merc' started to get over with its drawbacks but AM seems will struggle some more time..

and for the other topic.. since one of the biggest aims to reduce the cost of engines it can be interesting and it can really welcome new manufacturers.. a bit louder can be fun as well.. and lets not forget the fully sustainable fuel vision on 2025 engines..

[racerbruce]

2021 Bahrain saw terminal velocity (top speed) achieved by these teams:

1. Alpha Tauri: 322.7 kph
2. Ferrari: 319.7 kph
3. Alpha Romeo: 319.6 kph

While there are variables that positively or negatively affect terminal velocity (aero settings, fuel load, slipstream tow, etc) it is interesting to see Ferrari as the second fastest knowing the debacle of straight line speed in the 2020 season.

[apexit4]

Originally Posted by rcracin

I’m interested in seeing if Aston Martin’s appeal to the new regulations will have any effect. Sure, they copied the Merc car, but that costs money. Then they get new regulations aimed specifically at harming their design. Not very fair in a cost cap environment nor for a lower budget team.

And on another note:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...AdTpdGKWi.html

It seem's that the team has met with the FIA and are "satisfied" for the time being (see article below). It's a bit ironic that they were threatening legal action this year when their response to last year's copy/paste was that their rival's just didn't do a good enough job.

https://www.racefans.net/2021/04/21/...r-fia-meeting/

The RedBull announcement was rather interesting. When I first saw the title I thought they had managed to convince Andy Cowell to come back into F1. Either way, plucking talent from Mercedes isn't a bad move as long as it doesn't play out like Paddy Lowe going to Williams did back in 2017....