12-05-2017, 04:12 PM | #89 |
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You have to understand the difference between capability and quality. Seems unlikely to happen any time soon, though. And of course you are entitled to your opinion.
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12-05-2017, 04:14 PM | #90 |
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You know. I've made these points already, before some yahoo brought the Dodge Viper into the discussion.
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12-05-2017, 04:16 PM | #91 | |
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Looks like you're unlikely to understand the concept of logic anytime soon. Of course you're also entitled to your opinion. |
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12-05-2017, 04:18 PM | #92 | |
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Bigger = Better Brilliant.
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12-05-2017, 04:24 PM | #93 | |
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M2 > M240i > 230i. Even if some claim the 230i handles better than M2 or M240i, there are others who claim the opposite. What can't be argued are the numbers. |
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12-05-2017, 04:34 PM | #94 | ||
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12-05-2017, 04:41 PM | #95 | |
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My wife & I were looking for an attractive, comfortable, well-appointed, affordable, fun to drive DD. A 230i 6MT hit the sweet spot for us. |
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12-05-2017, 05:10 PM | #96 |
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And you're using your subjective perception to override data. Capability very much plays into how I measure quality of the drive. It's something we'll have to agree to disagree on.
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12-05-2017, 05:11 PM | #97 |
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What made you choose the 230i over any other car that arguably could satify your requirements above? Don't tell me performance numbers don't matter because the 230i is no slouch.
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12-05-2017, 05:12 PM | #98 | ||
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And that right there was exactly my point. Quote:
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12-05-2017, 05:29 PM | #99 | |
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Why can't you wrap your head around the fact not everyone makes decisions based on numbers? Although that is in fact a trendy thing to do. Many people buy cars simply based on 0 to 60 times, go for it if it makes you happy. |
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12-05-2017, 05:36 PM | #100 | |
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Prime example: C63 AMG sedan owner at recent HPDE event. AMG dude: "Hey buddy, nice bimmer you got there, what kind of hp are you making?" Me: "Thanks man, makes about 350whp give or take, 400ish ft-lbs, but I bought it to drive it, hard. So this power is suitable for my needs. What's going on with this here AMG?" AMG dude: "With the tune and exhaust my AMG is putting out 610hp, some say more depending on altitude (yea, he went there)" Me: "Wow that's crazy! How do you even hook up with so much power?" Noticing he has conti DWS, worn badly.. AMG dude: "I keep it in sport mode and it never spins, has e-lsd" Me: "Ohh okay, makes total sense, see ya on the track in a few, yea?" Lunch break after 3x20 minute sessions AMG dude: "Bro, you really push that car, eh!? You pulled away from me so easily.." I honestly would have pulled a schoolbus length if we had room, his car was nowhere near his HP expectation.. Me: "I am pretty comfortable in this car, so I can use all of its available power/grip" AMG dude: "Yea but you like, passed me, the 911, the CTS-V and the Jag R, twice in 20 minutes!!" Me: "Must be everyone getting used to the track, keep at it!"... Actually was my first time, at Area 27. And this is the exact reason I opted for the M-lite car, no one expects anything from it, because it's FAR INFERIOR to the M2
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12-05-2017, 05:48 PM | #101 | |
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If it's available in the states, would you be happy with the 218i? It's 180hp and costs about $7k less than 230i. Same chassis so should be equally fun to drive. If yes, then HP doesn't matter to you and you win this round. |
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12-05-2017, 06:57 PM | #102 |
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Even better is to outperform a higher-performing car by virtue of nothing but superior driving skills. Too many people use mods as a surrogate for real human skill, which is often lacking. I'll grab the one-testicled car anyday, for the joy of genuinely testing my driving skill rather/versus what my name-brand mod can do. Talent can't be purchased online.
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12-05-2017, 07:17 PM | #103 | |
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12-09-2017, 04:59 PM | #104 |
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I look at it like an engineer - you wouldn't want a intel chip to power a smartphone when an ARM chip will handle all your computations and uses much less power and memory.
N20/N26 is really good at what it is designed for, therefore it has merit. N55 is also good for what it does as well - 2014-2017 BMW 2 series buyers are fortunate to have a lot of choices 218 or a 220 would be a steal at $20-25,000 base. and yes, I'd get a Miata as a second card if I had an extra money/garage space lying around... |
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12-10-2017, 06:42 AM | #105 | |
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That all said we still have a small segment of folks who come in wanting the car with the most power and performance. |
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12-10-2017, 07:04 AM | #106 |
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Smart people buy what they want, within their budget, according to their interests. I've driven most of the "real" M cars over the years and most of them feel to me as if they're only really fun if driven hard, to the point of illegal and dangerous.
At the same time, I do like good performance, so I can be slightly illegal and a little bit dangerous. Thus I wind up with things like 135is, and M240i. They're usually at the high end of cost -- and then I stupidly save $800 by not ordering some option. Forget what I said earlier about smart people. And then there are the odd needs. I can't convince my wife to park her car out in the snow so I can have both sides of the garage, so I decided to drop my 135is convertible and my Juke and get down to one car. Voila, M240i convertible xDrive, for year-round enjoyment. Would a 4 cylinder have been as much fun? Probably, but different fun. People get to choose what they want. "Better" depends on what aspects you're trying to optimize, and that's different for everyone. My pal drives a big Mercedes SUV. Not for me, but it's fine for him. That's how it goes ... |
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12-10-2017, 01:48 PM | #107 |
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I hear/read both motors are VG; some actually prefer the lighter 230i coupe even though not the same raw power. Its clear though the 2 series is well built & fun to drive
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12-10-2017, 03:01 PM | #108 | |
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Honestly, I think all the models within the 2 series are cracking good fun, and there is a car to suit most budgets and preferences it’s an all-round great package. Also been a fellow Aussie there is a wide gap between what the US market offers compared to AUS , standard equipment varies allot between the models and while in the US it clear the M240i offers the best bang for buck, in Australia id argue that’s simply not the case thanks to our insane LCT tax ( Luxury Car Tax). |
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12-10-2017, 05:21 PM | #109 | |
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The only subjective claims are which one is more fun to drive. That all depends on your idea of fun. Just to be clear my fully loaded 228 costs the same a base 235. Not even counting my mods. The 235 is very nose heavy and that took me literally 10 seconds to notice when I test drove both. Also keep in my mind that the E30 M3 had a 4 cylinder engine. The 228 stays true to BMW's heritage IMO... and you can even argue that the entire 2 series lineup does (and I would agree). I just don't like it when people hate on the N20/B48 when the light 4 cylinder e30 M3 is what made BMW recognized as a fun performance vehicle in the first place.The N52 in E90's unfortunately gave the 28's a bad rep. The entire lineup is very capable and much more fun than any other series IMO. Think of it like this... each 2er variant caters to different lifestyles/priorities more so than the level of fun you're looking for. We're 2addicts not 235 addicts.
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12-10-2017, 06:56 PM | #110 |
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We own both a 2016 M235 and a 2017 230 (well appointed w/ m Pkg). Both are fun vehicles and enjoy them both. I would consider the 230 to be a great daily drive that is very fuel efficient while giving you a spirited experience...drove it yesterday in Sports mode and enjoyed it. My biggest beef about the 230 is the exhaust note.
I absolutely love the M235 but I find it very different than the 230 for obvious reasons. The M235 has the Dinan CAI, Chip and MPE. The tires are the OEM MPSS on VMR's 710. The M235 is planted, very fast and the sound makes it thrilling. Something to note, in Canada there are some options not available on the 230 that are available on the upgrade to the M235. I think it was the, adaptive headlights, adaptive high beams and forward warning collision were the three that we have on the M235 that we couldn't get on the 230. Last edited by X54TH; 12-10-2017 at 07:41 PM.. |
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