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      09-04-2014, 10:30 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Granted, my experience is based just on that, my personal experience. Davis Bacon may have solved some issues for many trades, but for mine it serves to be bureaucratic BS at it's best. In my county, in FL, they only list one type of flooring installer, a tile setter, and his prevailing wage, according to the GOV, is $15.63/hour. The problem for me is that i use subcontractors who bid on the work for a lump sum. This turns the DBA for me, in to a paperwork aggravation. A must is keep track of how many people are on the job for how long.

Here is the kicker. My installation crew may decide they want to bring 5 helpers with them for this job. But for the amount they bid, and the number of people, and the number of hours they all work would net them an hourly wage lower than the DBA prevailing wage. So once again, the 5th helper gets to sit at home, not making any money for the 3 to 4 weeks the crew will be on the project.

I'm on the fence about your statement in bold, but only have personal theory to argue against it and sometimes that personal theory supports you statement. haha
Can you clarify this? Why is this is an issue? Are you saying the $15.63 wage they pay isn't enough to cover the cost?

When I audit these I just have to see that you maintain time sheets with the workers names. If they bid lump sum then just calculate the time they spend on a job and the lump sum and come up with the hourly calc?

May be I am not getting this.
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      09-04-2014, 10:42 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by Devant View Post
Can you clarify this? Why is this is an issue?

When I audit these I just have to see that you maintain time sheets with the workers names. If they bid lump sum then just calculate the time they spend on a job and the lump sum and come up with the hourly calc?

May be I am not getting this.
You're correct. The only thing your missing is the effort it takes to go through the motions to make sure your info will jive with the GC/owner on the project as they maybe keeping track as well. And don't get me wrong, our installers are great but they don't equate themeless as a legitimate businesses. Rather they view themselves as as a couple of guys splitting the money and paying helpers a hundo every day they work. Read: they aren't the most responsible when it comes to paperwork or keeping track of who and for how long they were on the job site. More of an industry specific issued i suppose. But it's just busy work that doesn't do the philanthropic work they envisioned the DBA would, at least not for our industry.

And aside to this is that FL allows for Worker's comp exemptions. This means nearly all flooring contractors use "subcontractors" as installers. We couldn't compete with extra cost if our installers were employees and we had to pay the work comp rates for flooring installers. If we could have them as employees it would be easier for me to keep control over it. But having to keep subcontractors at arms length, (for payroll taxes) i have to depend on them to keep this paperwork straight, which they don't, which makes more work for me, because of bureaucratic BS, which doesn't help anyone. (again, at least in my industry)
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      09-05-2014, 12:09 AM   #47
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Originally Posted by Devant View Post
I think this more a company's reaction to poor cash flow or earning, rather than pressures they face due to wage restrictions. There is definitely no right or wrong and your viewpoint has merit. But that is what is so geat about economics. It is part art and part science.

Are you planning to teach after you get your PhD?
I agree. NO right or wrong for sure. Something down the road can happen, and it just changes everything in the long run. IF someone can predict the future 95/100 times, they can just quit being a professor, and become a CEO of DJ30, and make $25mil/yr avg salary.

21 course credit at our school means I didn't get a single credit.
Well, I only took 2 course as audited (Microecon theory1, and Math Stat for Economist) , and it was not as hard, so we shall see I will stop being a sissy and take classes as credited. It is not that "Can I finish?" but more of "is it worth the $?"
~$4500 for a "feeler" was costly, but my wife is extremely happy that I even got accepted.
I am still living in late 90s in-state tuition dreamworld.

People who I've talked with told me to take some as audited before making a decision.

If i decide to pursue forward, I will think about teaching. Even getting an visiting/adjunct status are not as easy as 15 years ago.

I really applied to a school which is really not known for what I want. I just applied to this school, because it is closest and I took undergrad there. I am more of micro or operation guy, and our school is known for intl econ (especially trade side). I think our school was rank as low as #40 overall around year 2000.
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      09-05-2014, 04:15 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
You and I are about in the similar page. I am about 21 course credit shy of receiving my PhD in Economics. I am not planning to spend a single credit on Labor Economics, nor Economics with Discrimination.


I disagree with DOL's view. I've seen it with my own eyes. Retailers and fast food restaurants are dying to reduce staff per revenue to boost their bottom line eps.
My wife and 1/4 got laid off at one department stores on cost reduction plan around 2009. However, she made tons of money on ESOP/PP and 401(k) that it actually turned out better w/ 99wk unemployment benefit.

Most of companies besides wmt, mcd, cab, and others do not own real estate or reit. They will just simply move out of the city ord. I've seen Dress barn does that. I've seen dollar tree do that for some different reasons. Near double the labor cost sure WILL get them out of the city which impose the 15/hr crap.
Although this sounds like labor econ heavy topic, but this is more of a microecon issue, and it will be soon
.

All needs to be said in my opinion. If minimum wage is at $15 an hour, most businesses will move out to find cheaper sources of labor and produce at a lower level of input costs. (Hence why a lot of businesses have already packed and moved to other states with lower operating costs than california).
Company like Mcdonalds charges 8% on top of the annual operating costs to its franchisee's for solely using the corporately owned real estate and make a lot more than one might expect from the actual ownership of real rather than the burger flipping.

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      09-05-2014, 05:51 AM   #49
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The free market is king. It is a simple supply/demand calculation. If there are people that are qualified and willing to do the work at $7,$8,$9,$10 per hour then that is the going rate for the job at hand.

For example, I was offered a job (lateral transition) in Manhattan 2 months ago at X amount of dollars. I informed the company that the figure was too low for the cost of living in that area and declined the offer because they would not budge on the figure. The job is still open/vacant today. Want to know why? Not enough pay for an applicant that is qualified to do the work.
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      09-05-2014, 07:58 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
Wawa.....

I loath the idea of this, but in application.... i like it a lot.

I walk into Wawa, one of 8 terminals are available for me to input my order. Takes me 15 seconds, i grab my order receipt, a drink, never am I more than 3rd person in line to pay. By the time i pay, my sandwich order is ready and i'm gone. Less than 5 min every time.

As a social being, i really don't like this. But with the numbers of either stupid or introverted people working in these positions anyway, this concept is growing on me.
I had dinner at one of the restaurants inside of Laguardia airport and it was the same thing. You sit down with a tablet in front of you. It provides you with internet, music, flight information, delays, updates, whatever you want. Then you open the restaurant app, look through the menu, select everything that you would like, put it all into a "shopping car" and check out. You swipe your credit card at your seat and the waiter brings you your food and drinks. If you want to grab their attention, you can do that from the tablet also. There were only two people working for the entire restaurant and my drink showed up within 5 minutes and food within 10 minutes.
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      09-05-2014, 08:03 AM   #51
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So since I'm much more highly qualified than anyone at McD's, if this passes, I should be able to take this on as a second job relatively easily, right?

I mean, wouldn't you rather hire someone with real world experience instead of the typical fast food worker? Even if most of its automated, I'll flip some patties and even offer liter cola.
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      09-05-2014, 08:28 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I had dinner at one of the restaurants inside of Laguardia airport and it was the same thing. You sit down with a tablet in front of you. It provides you with internet, music, flight information, delays, updates, whatever you want. Then you open the restaurant app, look through the menu, select everything that you would like, put it all into a "shopping car" and check out. You swipe your credit card at your seat and the waiter brings you your food and drinks. If you want to grab their attention, you can do that from the tablet also. There were only two people working for the entire restaurant and my drink showed up within 5 minutes and food within 10 minutes.
When I was at Chili’s ordering my own meal and paying my own bill via tablet all the waiters were just standing around. Have to wonder if this is going to affect the tipping rate. Other than walking 4 feet and picking up my meal the chefs did all the work.

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      09-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #53
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Originally Posted by 2011CrazE89 View Post
When I was at Chili’s ordering my own meal and paying my own bill via tablet all the waiters were just standing around. Have to wonder if this is going to affect the tipping rate. Other than walking 4 feet and picking up my meal the chefs did all the work.
I left a sh1t tip. They didn't do anything. Better off just having a window and when your food/drink is ready, you get a pop up, walk over and grab it yourself.

Really all you need is a hostess, bartender, however many chefs to pump out the food and a bus boy to clean up after people. That's about it.
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      09-05-2014, 09:55 AM   #54
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if this actually happens I'm going to apply there.

part time at $15/hr after work will result in quite a nice chunk of change do fun stuff with.
I could get a job as a pizza delivery driver. 15 dollars an hour would pay the gas for my Cobra Replica. I wouldn't mind getting payed to drive my cobra around all day! At least as a part time job....might even get to sneak a piece of pizza.
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      09-05-2014, 10:46 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billup View Post
So since I'm much more highly qualified than anyone at McD's, if this passes, I should be able to take this on as a second job relatively easily, right?

I mean, wouldn't you rather hire someone with real world experience instead of the typical fast food worker? Even if most of its automated, I'll flip some patties and even offer liter cola.
Their management model is actually better suited for people with little experience. Someone like you, who has experience may start to question policy, procedure, etc... They like the ones who just blindly follow directions. The few who blindly follow directions, while understanding the concept, and work hard are the ones who get promoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Malibu1 View Post
I could get a job as a pizza delivery driver. 15 dollars an hour would pay the gas for my Cobra Replica. I wouldn't mind getting payed to drive my cobra around all day! At least as a part time job....might even get to sneak a piece of pizza.
I did this in my LSB E46M3 for almost 2 years.

Except it was my now wife's newly purchased pizza shop. And i didn't get paid....in dollars.

Yep, i got paid in pizza and garlic bread. Oddly enough, during those two years, i lost 20 pounds eating almost nothing but Pizza, Bread, IHOP, and Krispy-Kream. .....Good times.
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      09-05-2014, 11:12 AM   #56
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http://www.businessinsider.com/momen...r-robot-2014-8

Interesting article.
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      09-05-2014, 11:28 AM   #57
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http://www.thewire.com/national/2014...#disqus_thread




Then read this comment





Laughing the F@ck Out Loud! The last sentence brought it all home. Here's an example of the typical, self-satisfied, and self-absorbed fella that thinks he really makes a big difference in people's lives. All this talk about the "American Dream" is just the pure unadulterated, unpasteurized horseshit that these "1%ers" talk about when they get together and give backslaps and reacharounds to each other, while trying to cut costs as much as they can while not getting slapped with a federal or state lawsuit for unethical or unsafe practices. Unionization must return and must elevate the dignity of all workers. If I spend an extra buck or two for a shitty burger that I know was made with the lowest possible capital outlay, while still being able to call the product "food", I won't mind doing so, for at least it is contributing to that worker's salary and dignity. That should be the American Dream.
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      09-05-2014, 12:13 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Tonka View Post
You're correct. The only thing your missing is the effort it takes to go through the motions to make sure your info will jive with the GC/owner on the project as they maybe keeping track as well. And don't get me wrong, our installers are great but they don't equate themeless as a legitimate businesses. Rather they view themselves as as a couple of guys splitting the money and paying helpers a hundo every day they work. Read: they aren't the most responsible when it comes to paperwork or keeping track of who and for how long they were on the job site. More of an industry specific issued i suppose. But it's just busy work that doesn't do the philanthropic work they envisioned the DBA would, at least not for our industry.

And aside to this is that FL allows for Worker's comp exemptions. This means nearly all flooring contractors use "subcontractors" as installers. We couldn't compete with extra cost if our installers were employees and we had to pay the work comp rates for flooring installers. If we could have them as employees it would be easier for me to keep control over it. But having to keep subcontractors at arms length, (for payroll taxes) i have to depend on them to keep this paperwork straight, which they don't, which makes more work for me, because of bureaucratic BS, which doesn't help anyone. (again, at least in my industry)
I agree totally bureaucratic, but it does generate revenue for companies like mine, in audit fees.

Your loss is my gain //jk
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      09-05-2014, 12:16 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by MrPrena View Post
I agree. NO right or wrong for sure. Something down the road can happen, and it just changes everything in the long run. IF someone can predict the future 95/100 times, they can just quit being a professor, and become a CEO of DJ30, and make $25mil/yr avg salary.

21 course credit at our school means I didn't get a single credit.
Well, I only took 2 course as audited (Microecon theory1, and Math Stat for Economist) , and it was not as hard, so we shall see I will stop being a sissy and take classes as credited. It is not that "Can I finish?" but more of "is it worth the $?"
~$4500 for a "feeler" was costly, but my wife is extremely happy that I even got accepted.
I am still living in late 90s in-state tuition dreamworld.

People who I've talked with told me to take some as audited before making a decision.

If i decide to pursue forward, I will think about teaching. Even getting an visiting/adjunct status are not as easy as 15 years ago.

I really applied to a school which is really not known for what I want. I just applied to this school, because it is closest and I took undergrad there. I am more of micro or operation guy, and our school is known for intl econ (especially trade side). I think our school was rank as low as #40 overall around year 2000.
Honestly I am a corporate guy through and through. No interest in teaching. I just want the PhD after my name, because everyone has a CPA, CIA, CFE, CISA, or MBA

But how many people in corporate finance have PhD? Not too many..well now I sound like a complete snob.
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      09-05-2014, 01:29 PM   #60
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Did not read all the cooments but do have this wrinkle. In Cali there's a labor law for skilled workers, basically if you provide your own tools you by law get twice minimum wage(few other rules but that's the gist of it). Ok they raise minimum wage then that affects auto techs, plumbers, electricians etc etc etc raising costs thru roof for those services or lowering the service level. What will the business owner do, make everyone a sub, they provide their own benefits and tax payments which will further dillute business landscape. Bad for business and consumers in the long run. Should they make a bit more, maybe, but not double how about 15% across the board. I'd say basically shut them down too many options for fast food anyway.
Don't get me into the "helicopter" kid syndrome currently affecting 20 something's in this country. This old fart wil seriously piss off most of you on here.
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      09-05-2014, 01:47 PM   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devant View Post
I agree totally bureaucratic, but it does generate revenue for companies like mine, in audit fees.

Your loss is my gain //jk
No doubt! haha I used to think the same thing when we did about 80% of our commercial work for the government.

last one i did was for department of health. They have a 4 story admin building. in 2009 the renovated the whole building, top to bottom. New everything, total build out.

In 2012 the had one department move to another building and the department in that building move to the 4 story building. Don't ask me why. But the new department was going to occupy the 3rd floor. They needed some ceramic tile in a break room, some VCT in a few copy rooms and new carpet tile in the revised entry. Bout a $14,000 contract. Before starting, they ask for a quote to re-carpet the entire 3rd floor because some of the work on the 4th floor would require carpet that was currently installed on the 3rd to be moved to the 4th. Makes sense so far....

I give them a quote. They accept it and write me a change order. Then they ask me for a quote to install the 3rd floor carpet on the 4th floor. Turns out they only needed carpet for 3 rooms on the 4th floor. This is what my contract looked like....

Original Contract - $14,000
Change Order 1 - $137,000
Change Order 2 - $3,200

So to get the same color carpet in the 3 rooms on the 4th floor, they purchased $137k worth of new carpet for the 3rd floor. Get ready for the kicker.....

They ordered the exact same carpet that was previously installed. If i made it difficult to follow, Originally, before we were contracted, all floors had the same X123 carpet. They needed this color carpet for changes on the 4th floor so they took it from the 3rd floor. Then they replaced ALL the carpet on the 3rd floor with the same X123 carpet. Same manufacture, same style, same color. Seriously? WTF?!?

As a tax payer, i'm furious. As a business owner, i'm saying at least i'm benefiting from this. But the truth is, it hurts all of us, even the guys doing the work. It's not sustainable and the government doesn't care.

That kind of government waste, fraud, and abuse is what drives me crazy and makes me want the government to stay out of the free market.
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      09-05-2014, 02:26 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pgviper View Post
I left a sh1t tip. They didn't do anything. Better off just having a window and when your food/drink is ready, you get a pop up, walk over and grab it yourself.

Really all you need is a hostess, bartender, however many chefs to pump out the food and a bus boy to clean up after people. That's about it.
I am surprised you left a tip at all. Perhaps it's because I'm from Europe and we don't tip, but I won't tip unless you actually do something for me that deserves a tip. I always laugh when people order something at the counter and tip. What a waste of money.
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      09-05-2014, 02:37 PM   #63
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This old fart wil seriously piss off most of you on here.
I want to hear it
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      09-05-2014, 05:49 PM   #64
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Originally Posted by Malibu1 View Post
I could get a job as a pizza delivery driver. 15 dollars an hour would pay the gas for my Cobra Replica. I wouldn't mind getting payed to drive my cobra around all day! At least as a part time job....might even get to sneak a piece of pizza.
real job and then side job for fun money...

all about it lol
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      09-05-2014, 05:56 PM   #65
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Circle jerk...
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      09-05-2014, 08:38 PM   #66
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Circle jerk...
Que?
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