BIMMERPOST BMW M235i Drive - In Depth Review From Las Vegas [VIDEO REVIEW ADDED] |
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01-23-2014, 09:08 AM | #67 |
TIM YOYO
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You could just not power the electric assist motor. That would make the steering crazy heavy in a car that weighs 3500+ lbs though. I have a feeling that there are specific algorithms that purposefully "smooth" out the natural feedback of the steering action. They need to dial that back or eliminate it in enthusiast focused cars.
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01-23-2014, 10:23 AM | #68 |
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I'm loving this discussion too. You brought up so many good points, and I think we somehow need to get this across to them. I get that customers always request light steering, they made this type of change once before near year 2000 on the E46, but then they had a customer backlash so they changed it back and even went so far as to offer a TSB retrofit. The difference is this time they haven't yet received enough feedback to offer people who want something like the old steering back to do something about it. We have to tell them.
As you mentioned, EPS technology actually makes it possible to have multiple solutions in one car, and to an extent they do (sport mode). It's just the implementation of it that is RIDICULOUS. We have a '13 F30 328i 8sp auto. We test drove the car and the steering in comfort mode was way too light. But in sport mode, it was still too light, and you had to take sport transmission mode along with it, compromising smoothness and fuel economy. So we ordered the DHP with VSS, which allows you to customize Sport Mode to chassis only, sight unseen. Turns out, the VSS, though quicker than standard steering, is *even lighter* than the standard steering, and there is barely any difference at all between comfort and sport. With two modes, there's just no reason or excuse for them being so similar to each other. I'll reluctantly accept that I have to push a button each time I start the car to get what I want, but then GIVE ME WHAT I WANT, which is for my car to feel like a BMW again. And do it fast, before we all forget what that even is. So here is my suggestion: -All cars have a way to call a second steering mode, like sport mode, but independent of transmission mode change -Make the sport mode effort the same level as a plain old E90 with no servotronic. Or even better, give us a couple mode choices like E90/E46/E36/E30/E21 -I'd rather have it be a persistent config option rather than pushing a button each time, but I get why they do that to prevent people from taking it to the dealer complaining that the steering is broken after their 16yr old messed with the config. -Offer software updates to existing owners from this dark period in BMW history What we need to do is get this message across. I can't imagine they read these boards because who are we- just their old enthusiasts, not people who actually buy their cars Journalists need to stop apologizing for it and using terms like "precise" (car steers where you point it, with no feel) or "direct" (car steers quickly where you point it, with no feel), and actually say something like "This car's steering has no feel". And the last resort is to simply vote with your checkbook. The F30, a great car in all other respects, fell so far short of our expectations in this one and most important reason we bought a BMW in the first place, that it will be the last new BMW we buy until they fix it. I recently picked up a 2011 E90 335i 6MT with 19k miles and am happy driving a BMW again. Unfortunately it takes me out of the market for the M235i. |
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01-23-2014, 11:23 AM | #69 | |
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Obviously they're not going to put chassis designators in the menu though OBSOLETE (see next post): Once upon a time -- I believe it was the pre-LCI E60 M5, and probably some others -- all of the variables that were adjusted as part of modes like eco, comfort, sport, sport+ were individually adjustable through iDrive. Consumers hated it. I can understand why. There are a lot of variables there. However, I think steering feedback is one component that really needs its own adjustment, and it had better be persistent. Hopefully BMW learned their lesson with auto-start-stop. What we need is an iDrive menu to adjust the steering program as part of the vehicle dynamics... and that knob needs to go to 11.
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01-23-2014, 01:46 PM | #70 |
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I've never owned a BMW of the appropriate trim to get these options, but it looks like what we're asking for is already coming. It's just a matter of providing a wide enough range.
"In addition to settings one would predict—Eco, Comfort, Sport, Sport-Plus—the driver can also program accelerator mapping, steering effort, automatic-transmission function, and responses of the auto-damping suspensions." http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars...-born-16411129
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01-24-2014, 08:27 AM | #71 | ||
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01-24-2014, 09:38 AM | #72 |
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After reading all this..agreed the M235i is a really nice car and also agree that it could of been made lighter...hoping the M2 fills this need. But the M235i is targeting a certain market and seems to have hit it well with the M235i.It's quite a experience to drive my 1991 Mazda Miata..my DD now, and then my old 135i( my son owns it now)....my immediate first fiew minutes is...damn this Miata is amazing for what it is.. Just lets you now how much fun it is to have a light tossable, car with great steering...The Miata alway's , on a daily basis tells me just how good and FUN that little LIGHT car is!!! But for short trips the Mazda is fine but long trips not so comfortable.. Looking forward to YOUR review's of the new M3//yes it's large but i bet this new M will be amazing.
Thanks for the review Sam !!!!!!!!!!!! |
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01-26-2014, 10:10 AM | #73 |
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I just wanted to add that in my car the steering feels the same with DSC=off and in sport+ mode. (Note DSC=off requires a long press on the DTC/DSC button)
In other words, the steering with DSC=off is not the same as in normal, but the rest of the car is. With DSC=off the suspension, throttle and gearbox behaves as if in normal mode, but the steering becomes much heavier and communicative. I assume this is because you need more steering feel when drifting, and I love that this allows me to get the most direct steering without the boosted throttle etc. I do not know if this is the same in other BMWs with EPS, but it is worth trying. |
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03-11-2014, 01:11 PM | #75 |
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Nice review. This car looked an sounded great. The exhaust note also is very rewarding on video and in person. I have run into these cars on the street in NJ area and heard them taking off aggressively leaving me with a smile. I am optimistic that if the 235i sounds that good that the M4 will be off the charts!
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03-11-2014, 02:10 PM | #76 |
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03-11-2014, 02:12 PM | #77 | |
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If I didn't know this DSC-off trick I would have to drive in Normal mode which gives me soft-suspension I want but the steering is also soft which is not desirable to me as speeds increase. The only problem with DSC-off is, well, it turns DSC-off so I have to stay sharp to quickly handle any over/understeer situation. Shouldn't be much of a problem though with Michelin PSS at (semi)legal speeds. |
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03-11-2014, 02:53 PM | #78 |
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Damn, I almost made up my mind to get a cayman S this time around.My lease on 135 ended 3 months ago and i miss a small sporty car.I somehow feel that driving a stick with a turbo charged I6 was always tricky.It wasn't as smooth as I wanted it to be.
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03-11-2014, 02:59 PM | #79 |
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Very detailed review, nice work!
I had a brand new 328i M-Sport loaner recently for 2 weeks. The first thing I noticed was the steering and how light it felt and low speeds. It was definitely different and did not have the counter rotation type of feel that my e46 or e90 had with the non-electric assist. I also felt like the 8spd auto transmission was pretty intrusive, constantly shifting and bucking as you accelerate. I'm curious if you felt like the M235i box was the same way?
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03-11-2014, 05:27 PM | #81 |
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Fantastic review! Thanks, Sam!
Best regards, south
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03-11-2014, 07:34 PM | #83 |
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Saw two loaded EB M235s at the dealer today. They look damn good, the rear is much better in person and the front is perfect. Honestly I would not pay 50 grand for one b in 2 years I would CPO the shit out of one for sure for 35k
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03-11-2014, 09:04 PM | #85 |
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Sam, I really enjoyed the video review. Especially coming from the perspective of an E90 M3 owner. Makes me that much more excited to drive (and read reviews of) the F8x cars!
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03-12-2014, 12:06 AM | #87 |
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Nice review. I really hope someone does a similar test of the 228i MSport. I'd love to know how the steering feels on that. Also, I can confirm the FRS/BRZ steering is excellent. I test drove one this summer and the first thing I thought was "man this steering feels kind of like a BMW". The recent VW GTI's have pretty good EPS also. So we have hope that EPS can be tuned to be decent.
Last edited by asus389; 03-12-2014 at 06:23 PM.. |
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