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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Unveiling Soon.

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      09-19-2013, 03:19 PM   #67
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Quote:
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Hopefully it gives more credence to a lighter car with a more rearward weight bias (ie 4 cylinder) to more directly compete with the CLA45 and S3. Leave the M235i as the torquey cruiser and use the M2 as a higher strung, more focused car.
As the CLA45 will be slushbox only, there will be an immediately clear difference between it and any of the 2 series cars. The HP on the CLA is pretty amazing, but it also escalates in price very quickly; makes the difference between it and the C63 a bit blurry. Hopefully that won't be the case in the 2 vs 4 question. Won't the S3 be a porky little thing, a tradition with Audi?
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      09-19-2013, 03:33 PM   #68
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The S3 is DSG only too, so BMW should have that in their favor (if slower, less efficient and cheaper to build are really favorable). However the S3 is based on the Mk7 Golf, which is surprisingly light now, with rumors that the Golf R could even be sub 3k pounds, so no, it's not business as usual at Audi, and BMW certainly isn't known for light cars either.

Finally, the CLA45 is $48k, so confusing it with a $60k C63 is going to take a really poor mathematician. Remember that the existing E82 135is is only $2750 cheaper than the new F32 335i, so of course there won't be much separation in F22 M235i pricing and a non-optioned F32.
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      09-19-2013, 03:51 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommy View Post
As the CLA45 will be slushbox only, there will be an immediately clear difference between it and any of the 2 series cars. The HP on the CLA is pretty amazing, but it also escalates in price very quickly; makes the difference between it and the C63 a bit blurry. Hopefully that won't be the case in the 2 vs 4 question. Won't the S3 be a porky little thing, a tradition with Audi?
I wasn't aware we were calling dual-clutch transmissions "slushboxes" now...
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      09-19-2013, 05:03 PM   #70
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Finally, the CLA45 is $48k, so confusing it with a $60k C63 is going to take a really poor mathematician.
Start optioning it out to a comparable level with the C63, and the difference is minimal. Though the CLA is going to necessitate a larger C class (it's actually longer/wider than the current C), which I'm sure will move it up in price too.

And yes, I'd consider any non-manual a less fun car by definition. Though I realize that's a quickly shrinking demographic, and will soon be relegated to 8 track-like status, unfortunately.
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      09-19-2013, 05:10 PM   #71
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I'm a manual-only guy too, but since two pedal cars put up more repeatable and faster numbers, they're clearly winning out. It doesn't hurt that they're getting much better mileage numbers too.

However I'm not sure why you're comparing optioned CLA45 pricing to a base C63. It's not like most folks that would choose the spendy options on the CLA wouldn't pick the Development Pack and other costly options on the C63 too. So that 25% price difference is likely to remain roughly the same. This seems like saying that a fully optioned F30 is likely to be as much as a stripper F80, it doesn't really matter as the folks who would buy either likely wouldn't consider the other.

The bigger issue for me in this field is that the S3 and A45 both have transverse motors and Haldex that doesn't send much power to the rear until slip is detected. I'd much prefer a rwd car or at least a more aggressive awd system like true quattro, 4Matic or xDrive over the compromised Haldex setup. I suspect the M235i and M2 will both be too feature rich and pound heavy to really interest me and I'll continue to try to out wait Subie on the damned STI version of the BRZ.
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      09-19-2013, 07:15 PM   #72
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I don't see M235i as a direct competitor to the CLA 45 AMG, although people will make that assumption like they have compared the A45 AMG to the M135i.

Just to think the M235i coupe could even better the CLA AMG or A3 Sedan dynamically. And even though it is not direct competition it could be the more satisfying and also a bargain?
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      09-19-2013, 07:48 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
I don't see M235i as a direct competitor to the CLA 45 AMG, although people will make that assumption like they have compared the A45 AMG to the M135i.

Just to think the M235i coupe could even better the CLA AMG or A3 Sedan dynamically. And even though it is not direct competition it could be the more satisfying and also a bargain?
I sure think they are...although as you say they are very different cars.

One is AWD, 4 cylinder, 360 hp, double clutch at 47.5k
One is RWD, 6 cylinder, 315 hp, manual at idk price I would say maybe 42k?

Me, I want a fun car for under 50k tops and want performance while still maintaining luxury. That is why I am looking at M235i, and CLA45 AMG instead of something like a mustang.

Both of these cars fit the bill (and so does the S3, but that is not due until later next year).

As you say though, the M235i seems like it will be a much better value.

I built my CLA45 AMG, and it has
base (47,500) + recaro seats (2250) + red brakes (300) + AMG Exhaust (450) + AMG Night Styling (750) - 1,000 discount = ~50K.

That is all I really need in a car. I don't care about navigation and other electronic goodies (seat warmer, etc).

Hopefully the M235i + LSD + PPK + leather seats are lower then that...
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      09-19-2013, 07:54 PM   #74
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M235i

Exactly if the m235i can be very close to the 135is pricing and achieve performance numbers in Line with the cla45amg it will be a very good deal! For the m2 give it the 1m pricing plus 4-5% keep the straight 6 and make it the class leader in term of performance And driving feel.
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