08-08-2016, 04:31 PM | #67 |
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Almost anyone can take a car’s engine to its limits on a straightaway. The difference between skilled drivers (the 0.0001%) and unskilled drivers (the 99.9999%) is the skilled driver’s ability to drive a car at the limit under braking, corner entry, midcorner and accelerating out of a corner. In other words, the 99.9999% would get far better results spending money on professional high-performance driving instruction and/or racing instruction they can use, rather than horsepower they can’t use. Of course, drivers must also know their limitations, and I know that I’ll run of of talent before running out of 385 horsepower…
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08-08-2016, 04:59 PM | #68 |
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08-08-2016, 09:14 PM | #69 |
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Have you driven a GT3? I have one and I would never want one with a manual. It revs too fast, I'd never be able to drive it properly. I love manuals but not for manic high revving cars like this. You have to shift up and down too frequently.
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08-10-2016, 12:43 PM | #70 | |
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So what? Your comment is pretty meaningless because most drivers don't track their cars and straight line acceleration is still a major factor.
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08-10-2016, 12:44 PM | #71 | |
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I don't get the love of a manual. They're tedious.
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08-10-2016, 01:19 PM | #72 | |
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Rowing the gears and experiencing the connection is part of the experience of enjoying a drive, not just getting fast numbers. You know you're doing right or wrong and it's not a machine doing the work for you.
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08-10-2016, 01:50 PM | #73 | |
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08-10-2016, 03:23 PM | #74 | |
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They are tedious, a distraction, and slower. With all the power cars have these days its better to have more focus on the road. Did you ever wonder why Ferrari, Lamborghini, and Porsche don't have manuals on their supercars? If you love manuals, more power to you but I find the "more connected" argument weak.
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08-10-2016, 04:39 PM | #75 |
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Uh, they don't sell them because they're small manufacturers who don't have the money to certify two transmissions.
Recent sales of 911R's for over a million bucks would say that not offering a manual GT3 might have been a mistake. Look at prices for manual F430's, 575's and 599's. Frequently 150% to 300% the price of two pedal versions. |
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08-10-2016, 05:21 PM | #76 |
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Anyone suggesting a car that runs mid 12s 1/4 mile (obviously not the point of this car) and says it is under powered needs to drive a first gen miata around a race track to get their sense of what fast is back in check.
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08-10-2016, 05:39 PM | #77 | |
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Even among super cars, the manual versions of preowned Ferrari and Lamborghini sell for much higher prices on the used market than the 2 pedal versions. The F430 maintains a premium as the last manual transmission Ferrari and collectors are snapping them up quickly. The rumors are probably true that Porsche will bring back the GT3 in manual after mass complaints from car enthusiasts that want such a car. If you're happy clicking buttons and having your car do the work for you, that's great. I want to do my own work and truly know how to drive my own car - not have it drive for me.
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08-10-2016, 05:59 PM | #78 |
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I think there is more focus on the road with a 6spd than a PDK, or any automatic for that part. Having to work the gears to get going instead of looking at your phone and letting the car do its thing isn't better focus.
I find rowing my gears and working for the power and working to properly rev match makes for more involvement and precision than clicking a pair of paddles....
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08-10-2016, 08:13 PM | #79 | ||
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Anyway, back on the topic. Maybe GT4 could be faster, but hard to argue this is great car, and, for my taste at least, I'm trying to see how it could be any prettier. |
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08-10-2016, 10:32 PM | #80 | |
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Porsche developed an all new 6-speed manual for the 911 R. You better believe they didn't spend all that R&D money just to use it in one limited model. It is going to trickle down to other cars. Auto industry media is reporting 991.2 GT3 will be the next in line to receive it. Last edited by DieGrüneHölle; 08-10-2016 at 10:38 PM.. |
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08-11-2016, 08:48 AM | #81 | |
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I've driven both extensively, and I definitely think for insanely fast cars a dual clutch is the way to go. For a slower car that doesn't have that much potential I'd get manual every time. Last edited by atxgt3; 08-11-2016 at 09:29 AM.. |
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08-11-2016, 09:38 AM | #82 | |||
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However, you cannot say that straight line performance is not entertaining in its own way. It's not like you can pull 1.2G every off-ramp you get off. So in terms of everyday driving, I do think the GT4 could use either a bit more power or shorter ratios. Good news though. There's power left on the table from the 9A1 in the GT4. P.S. None of this would be enough for me to not get a GT4. It's a truly brilliant car out of the box. Quote:
On the road? I completely disagree. Hell, these cars have hill assist, auto rev match and a softer clutch pedal than the 80/90s 911's I've tried. So I don't see how they are that tedious. Supercars are meant to do 1 thing. Go as fast as humanly possible. On a GT3, I can understand why you'd want PDK. But you can also see that there's obviously a market for an MT with that engine... 911R. I'd pick the 911R over a 991 GT3 and even RS all day everyday (not that I can afford any of them ) Quote:
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08-12-2016, 10:17 AM | #83 | |
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The ever tiresome "the car drives itself" argument. Do honestly believe that? If so, you better go tell F1 drivers they're not really driving their vehicles. I suppose you want ABS gone too?
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08-12-2016, 10:29 AM | #84 |
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If Porsche didn't make a PDK version of the GT3 or GT3 RS we really wouldn't be having this discussion. It would have been kept as a "purist", but the idea that allowing a PDK to extract every ounce of performance out of the car allows others, I think, allows novices to actually jump into a Porsche and drive it with no experience.
I could be entirely wrong here, but if the GT3/RS didn't come with PDK, would you have gotten it?
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08-12-2016, 10:31 AM | #85 | |
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I have no problem with people wanting manuals. It's their choice but I find the arguments unpersuasive and the idea that cars "drive themselves" or are nothing but "video games" when they use paddles, ridiculous. I owned a GT4 and it was nice. The manual was great as far as manuals go but IMO it would have been better with PDK (or at least a PDK option). It also needed shorter gearing. Cars are getting too powerful and sophisticated to have such antiquated technology mesh well with the overall car. Hence Ferrari and Lambo not using them. And this idea that manuals command a premium is all supply and demand based. They don't make them so they're expensive to get. If they made them they'd sit on their lots. I remember a few years back almost biting on a heavily discounted V10 R8 with a gated manual.
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08-12-2016, 10:38 AM | #86 | |
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As far as allowing the hoi polloi to access cars they otherwise wouldn't I find a tad off putting and arrogant. A manual isn't that difficult to master and people of all driving abilities have been using them much longer than dual clutch has been around.
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08-12-2016, 10:46 AM | #87 | |
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I can ask many at my work if they know how to drive a manual and 95% of them have never driven or learned to drive a manual. And with congestion here in LA, it's an afterthought for most. No one would want to drive a heavy clutch through traffic, and that's why I say it gives novices easier access to these cars.
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08-12-2016, 11:03 AM | #88 | ||
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