[gonzo]

Turn those printers back on!
Turn those printers back on!
...Trading Places themed plug.

2.5B announced for new charge stations.
When asked how many, the answer was "We don't know".
Why not a range? 100? 1000? 10,000?
Nope. Nothing.


Sorry, but I immediately got a waft of books cooking. Same scent as the, now infamous, Cal High Speed rail.

Bankrupt a lemonade stand.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

A foldaway mini-bicycle should be a standard option on an EV so when you run out of charge with no charge posts in sight you can still cycle to your destination

Yeah, that totally makes sense with all the EVs I see on the road every day. Maybe they should put those on ICE vehicles too, since those are the ones I see broken down on the side of the road.

[BGM-M3COMP]

And if you’re not smart enough to understand your range because you never plan or highly unorganized yeah I too would keep a foldable bicycle inside your ev.

That means all of you lol. Since that’s going to be the “future” lmaooooo

[KRS_SN]

https://www.euractiv.com/section/roa...on-engine-ban/

Strawman argument.

[gonzo]

^
"Germanys decision could appear as doubt towards EU body decisions"
Paraphrasing


Well no shite and more power to them. Good grief EU, look at yourselves.

#shapeoftheworld
#thisisfine

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by gonzo

Turn those printers back on!
Turn those printers back on!
...Trading Places themed plug.

2.5B announced for new charge stations.
When asked how many, the answer was "We don't know".
Why not a range? 100? 1000? 10,000?
Nope. Nothing.


Sorry, but I immediately got a waft of books cooking. Same scent as the, now infamous, Cal High Speed rail.

Bankrupt a lemonade stand.

Whenever something is funded, it's always better to keep things vague from the person benefiting standpoint... so then when the money is spent, they don't have to compare to an initial plan lol.

It's identical to the 3G / 4G / 5G transitions with cell phones... it's nothing more than a marketing ploy without actual standards developed that quantify MINIMUM speeds. Most people on the street will never see the benefit of true 5G and will have speeds comparable to 4G... but at&t is kept safe this way because no one can come back to them with minimal speed issues.

[gonzo]

I'm on 5G and it's basically crap. Reloading a wifi signal, because it drops often, is so reeeediculous.

My point re charging stations involved how much glub-glub I hear whenever the green church speaks. Good grief people, look at their track records.
I'm all for increasing availability to charge but I Don't Know as an answer for 2500 millions is laughable.

No real plan.
No real data.
No time-line.
No bueno.

Mow Rons.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I'm on 5G and it's basically crap. Reloading a wifi signal, because it drops often, is so reeeediculous.

My point re charging stations involved how much glub-glub I hear whenever the green church speaks. Good grief people, look at their track records.
I'm all for increasing availability to charge but I Don't Know as an answer for 2500 millions is laughable.

No real plan.
No real data.
No time-line.
No bueno.

Mow Rons.

5G wasn't meant to have mass commercial appeal, it was just sold that way to make $.

It's largest consumer benefit is Mm wave technology that only works in very dense areas and you are very close to the tower. Even then it's supremely unreliable... nevertheless, the dream was sold and a lot of companies made $.

EVs are right now being sold in a similar fashion

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by ASAP

5G wasn't meant to have mass commercial appeal, it was just sold that way to make $.

It's largest consumer benefit is Mm wave technology that only works in very dense areas and you are very close to the tower. Even then it's supremely unreliable... nevertheless, the dream was sold and a lot of companies made $.

EVs are right now being sold in a similar fashion

I'm still wondering when we will start watering our crops with "Brawndo", because brawndo has what plants crave.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ASAP

5G wasn't meant to have mass commercial appeal, it was just sold that way to make $.

It's largest consumer benefit is Mm wave technology that only works in very dense areas and you are very close to the tower. Even then it's supremely unreliable... nevertheless, the dream was sold and a lot of companies made $.

EVs are right now being sold in a similar fashion

Almost no one is on mmWave at any given time, as you mention. I am not sure even the UWB indicators on phones are truthful at all times. When your phone says 5G, especially if you're not in a city, it's Sub-6 LTE, which is fantastic. Gonzo is just a nut who doesn't know what he's talking about.

mmWave is quite useful in large public venues like stadiums if the backhaul can keep up. My office building has mmWave on the roof and the speeds are absurd.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by chris719

Almost no one is on mmWave at any given time, as you mention. I am not sure even the UWB indicators on phones are truthful at all times. When your phone says 5G, especially if you're not in a city, it's Sub-6 LTE, which is fantastic. Gonzo is just a nut who doesn't know what he's talking about.

mmWave is quite useful in large public venues like stadiums if the backhaul can keep up. My office building has mmWave on the roof and the speeds are absurd.

SUb 6 5G typically has comparable speeds to 4G LTE... at times its a bit faster but adds very little if anything in way of the experience of the user. Again, no idea what the consumer use case here was for just basic phone internet usage. One cannot do anything the other could not.

MM wave is supremely fast but you have to be very close to a tower and even then it's insanely spotty... again, what is the consumer use case here? Like you mentioned, the only realistic one is in an arena that hasmassive load usage from a lot of people... even in that scenario I have seen it work SO far very poorly and spotty. Case in point, a few airports I have been at, downtown centers and bballa arenas.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by ASAP

SUb 6 5G typically has comparable speeds to 4G LTE... at times its a bit faster but adds very little if anything in way of the experience of the user. Again, no idea what the consumer use case here was for just basic phone internet usage. One cannot do anything the other could not.

MM wave is supremely fast but you have to be very close to a tower and even then it's insanely spotty... again, what is the consumer use case here? Like you mentioned, the only realistic one is in an arena that hasmassive load usage from a lot of people... even in that scenario I have seen it work SO far very poorly and spotty. Case in point, a few airports I have been at, downtown centers and bballa arenas.

It works poorly in arenas etc. because of inadequate backhaul 90% of the time. My overall point was blaming “5G” for anything is nonsensical because 99% of the time it’s 5G Sub 6 which is basically 4G as you correctly pointed out.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by chris719

It works poorly in arenas etc. because of inadequate backhaul 90% of the time. My overall point was blaming “5G” for anything is nonsensical because 99% of the time it’s 5G Sub 6 which is basically 4G as you correctly pointed out.

Right but that's the exact issue... the marketing on it was incorrect which is the overall point of the posts before this one. At&t went as far as labeling their on the phone network icon as 5G even tho it had nothing to do with 5G.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I'm on 5G and it's basically crap. Reloading a wifi signal, because it drops often, is so reeeediculous.

My point re charging stations involved how much glub-glub I hear whenever the green church speaks. Good grief people, look at their track records.
I'm all for increasing availability to charge but I Don't Know as an answer for 2500 millions is laughable.

No real plan.
No real data.
No time-line.
No bueno.

Mow Rons.

You could say it's blind leading the blind 'oh it'll be alright, I'm sure they know what they're doing even if there is no plan.I'm confused but others are buying so it must be alright'

[gonzo]

^
I was called a nut by the same fella that called myself, Nicky, mk6 and many others crazy and conspiracy theorists in the not so distant past. I hope I can speak for them with a simple "told you so". It won't do a lick of good but whatever. Can't fix arrogance.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by gonzo

^
I was called a nut by the same fella that called myself, Nicky, mk6 and many others crazy and conspiracy theorists in the not so distant past. I hope I can speak for them with a simple "told you so". It won't do a lick of good but whatever. Can't fix arrogance.

Suddenly deciding to buy an EV without doing the homework reminds me of the saying 'Fools rush in...'

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I did some EV homework today based on data from an article by Car and Driver that had most of all the EV for sale in the USA listed by MPGe rating. I have to say if you are a homeowner with private charging capability and need/want an inexpensive A-to-B daily commuter, I just don't see how you can pass up on the Chevrolet Bolt EV or the slightly larger Bolt EUV. Assuming you qualify for the US Federal tax credit of $7,500 a Bolt EV or EUV comes in well under $100/per range (in miles), meaning the MSRP - the $7,500 tax credit divided by the range in miles. The Bolt EUV MSRP is $28,795 and with fellow future US Tax payers footing the bill - less $7,500, the Bolt EUV is just $21,295 (chump change). The EPA range is 247 miles. No way would you'd road trip it in the USA, but for most around town use, it's a damned compelling price point. It's no uglier than a Model 3 from my POV and actually looks nearly like a normal car inside and out.

With my current commute of around 170 miles a week, I could charge it once a week over at the garage and easily live with it as a daily.

And I say if it makes sense for you then great. But it making sense for you shouldn't be the grounds for the government forcing EV's on everyone else, many of whom it might not make sense for.

I think this and the other common sense arguments surrounding increased capacity and grid upgrades that constantly get posted here are what the underlying theme among a great many posters on this thread is.

[Sedoy]

It really depends on your location, here in New England electricity just went up to $0.45/Kwh (delivery+generation). So let's do a quick math check: Bolt EUV battery is +/-65kWh / 0.95 (charging efficiency) * $0.45 = $30.79 for 247 miles (EPA perfect case full charge). That's equivalent of 23.6 MPG (currently local 87 is $2.94/Gal, so $30.79/2.94$/Gal=10.47 Gal thus, 247 miles/10.47 Gal = 23.6 MPG).

This is not even considering much worst range in cold weather and battery degradation.

So in my case, it's much more logical to get say 2023 Nissan Versa at $15,830 MSRP which gets 32 city / 40 highway for a commuter car.

Plus there is always a chance you can burn down your garage charging Chevy bolt...

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I did some EV homework today based on data from an article by Car and Driver that had most of all the EV for sale in the USA listed by MPGe rating. I have to say if you are a homeowner with private charging capability and need/want an inexpensive A-to-B daily commuter, I just don't see how you can pass up on the Chevrolet Bolt EV or the slightly larger Bolt EUV. Assuming you qualify for the US Federal tax credit of $7,500 a Bolt EV or EUV comes in well under $100/per range (in miles), meaning the MSRP - the $7,500 tax credit divided by the range in miles. The Bolt EUV MSRP is $28,795 and with fellow future US Tax payers footing the bill - less $7,500, the Bolt EUV is just $21,295 (chump change). The EPA range is 247 miles. No way would you'd road trip it in the USA, but for most around town use, it's a damned compelling price point. It's no uglier than a Model 3 from my POV and actually looks nearly like a normal car inside and out.

With my current commute of around 170 miles a week, I could charge it once a week over at the garage and easily live with it as a daily.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

It really depends on your location, here in New England electricity just went up to $0.45/Kwh (delivery+generation). So let's do a quick math check: Bolt EV battery is +/-65kWh / 0.95 (charging efficiency) * $0.45 = $30.79 for 247 miles (EPA perfect case full charge). That's equivalent of 23.6 MPG (currently local 87 is $2.94/gallon=10.47 Gal, 247 miles/10.47 Gal = 23.6 MPG).

This is not even considering much worst range in cold weather and battery degradation.

So in my case, it's much more logical to get say 2023 Nissan Versa at $15,830 MSRP which gets 32 city / 40 highway for commuter car.

My RAM 1500 ecoDiesel got about 30 MPG on our drive to Florida and back, I almost never get less than 25 MPG in my usually driving.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

LOL. Have you ever read a post from me advocating the Feds forcing EV on US citizens? Never. In fact I've made the case numerous times that EV financially make no sense based on the price delta between a comparable ICE (i.e. the battery cost difference). I usually use the Accord vs. the Model 3 and the Accord wins hands down to 100,000 miles total lifecycle cost by about $4,200 last time I did the mathematics; I think it's posted in this thread a few weeks back.

However, with the Bolt the initial price is below $30K now, which changes the economics. That is unless you live in New England...

No, I haven't. I didn't mean to infer you were I was using your post as an example of how different folks have different needs and I was cool with it.

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The RAM did well on the towing trip to Florida I take it?

Running the numbers for the Bolt vs. Versa () in my lovely state of Virginia, the Bolt edges out the Nissan by $1,844 to 100,000 miles. Well, if you don't count for the Halon system needed for the garage...

We weren't towing, but I have to say I love that truck, comfortable (air ride suspension) great cabin and seats and I would be hard pushed to drive long enough to empty the tank in one day.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

It really depends on your location, here in New England electricity just went up to $0.45/Kwh (delivery+generation). So let's do a quick math check: Bolt EUV battery is +/-65kWh / 0.95 (charging efficiency) * $0.45 = $30.79 for 247 miles (EPA perfect case full charge). That's equivalent of 23.6 MPG (currently local 87 is $2.94/Gal, so $30.79/2.94$/Gal=10.47 Gal thus, 247 miles/10.47 Gal = 23.6 MPG).

This is not even considering much worst range in cold weather and battery degradation.

So in my case, it's much more logical to get say 2023 Nissan Versa at $15,830 MSRP which gets 32 city / 40 highway for a commuter car.

Plus there is always a chance you can burn down your garage charging Chevy bolt...

$0.45kwh!!!!!!????? Even super chargers around here charge like $0.25kwh and feel like a scam to me. FPL has been raising its rates recently and pissing everyone off... still I think the highest I pay is $0.09kwh. So at most it costs me $6.75 to fully charge my model 3 long range.

However outside of some rare use cases I can't see how buying most any EV would save you more money than just buying a used economy car.