Car & Driver Reviews M235i with Automatic (0-60 in 4.3 and Quarter Mile in 12.9) |
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06-04-2014, 01:52 PM | #89 | |
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06-04-2014, 02:01 PM | #90 |
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From the dynos I've seen, it looks like roughly 360hp/380tq at the crank. In the past I've driven an Audi S5 and Hyundai Genesis Coupe with somewhat similar numbers to what BMW claims. The Audi had 354hp/325tq and weighed 3800lbs. The Hyundai was 348/295 but weighed 3400lbs. My butt dyno says the M235i smokes both of them in terms of speed. The test numbers seem to support that conclusion as well. The thing's definitely making more than BMW claims.
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06-04-2014, 02:13 PM | #91 | ||
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06-04-2014, 02:18 PM | #92 | |
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but my statement to the original quoted poster of how bmw got what they wanted in his response, I still stand by - "sorry thats what its called and the M moniker will go with it", exactly what bmw planned to do, no differentiation in his post as long as it has an M. |
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06-04-2014, 03:26 PM | #93 | |
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06-04-2014, 03:29 PM | #94 |
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The distinction between an M Performance car and an M car is a subtle one. I don't expect that most people will know the differences, much less extract any benefit from said differences. Also subtle is the difference between getting 100% of the performance of an M3 and getting 100% of the handling of an M3. These are very different things. Performance is the specification of how well a car can accomplish acceleration and road holding tests. Handling is how a car feels when you do it.
I have the benefit of having recently test driven an M235i a couple of times before deciding to do a lease assumption on a 2013 M3. Ultimately, I decided on the M3 because of two factors: performance aside, the V8 is attractive to me because of the experience (sound and throttle response); and the difference in handling between the two cars is apparent to me, even on the street. The M3 is sharper. Despite being heavier, the body moves around less and the turn-in is more direct. Combine that with the throttle response and the sound of the V8 and you have a distinct experience compared to the M235i (which definitely has its own merits with regard to handling). That is, in my mind, the distinction between an M Performance car and an M car. The M car is more focused; it delivers handling that is less compromised than an M Performance car. This focus does not come without cost though. The M235i has definite up sides, and I'm certain I would not have been unhappy with one. When cost is factored in, I'll admit that I am a little bit embarrassed to have chosen the E92 M3. It wasn't a rational decision. The improvement in handling isn't justifiable for the driving that I do, but sometimes we do unjustifiable things for the experiences we value most deeply. That's every individuals' decision. I really don't understand the apprehension around the introduction of the M Performance line-up though. It is not simply a nameplate. I drove a 135i for three years, and I loved it when I had it, but the M235i is a superior handling car. It might be argued that the car could have just as easily been sold with an 'is' name plate, but I rather like the idea of M Performance instead of 'is'. I know that the 'is' designation has a long history with BMW, dating back to the 80s, but it doesn't have the same weight as M Performance. IMO, this is one of those changes that can be seen from a glass half-empty or half-full perspective. For M conservatives, it dilutes the M brand. For M liberals, it expands the line-up, making M-branded cars more accessible. I understand the concern for the former, but ultimately, it's just the brand that is at risk, provided M GmbH keeps turning out superlative M-cars. The benefit of the latter is something I'm glad that people will be able to experience. As an enthusiast, it warms my heart when I hear about people who are happy with their car. If that means making M Performance models, then great. I'm thrilled that more people will be driving something they love.
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06-04-2014, 03:38 PM | #95 | ||
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I guess not and you own an M3 cuz its a freakin awesome car right? Same for M235i owners
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06-04-2014, 04:03 PM | #96 |
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06-04-2014, 04:16 PM | #97 | |
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I meant exactly what I said (and what the other poster responded to you with). I drive an M235i. That's right, it is an *M*235i. I am not claiming anything else then that. And as far as my next comment, yes - the performance on the car backs it up to put it up there with what you want to define as a "true" M car. Sorry, we are making you feel bad because we spent "2/3" the price, have M plastered 16 places on the car, can compete and looks equally as great (subjective).. To make you feel better and to negate your other argument, yes, I would have bought the car even if it would have been called a 135is, but sorry, it is not. I drive an M. 235i.
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06-04-2014, 04:27 PM | #98 | |
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A wheel dynamometers that can be reliably used to infer crank horsepower is very expensive. Relevant reading: Load dyno vs inertia dyno. Note that the vast majority of wheel dynamometers are inertia. You cannot do steady state testing on an inertia dyno. Dynamometer horsepower limits.
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06-04-2014, 04:51 PM | #99 |
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06-04-2014, 05:25 PM | #100 |
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06-04-2014, 05:41 PM | #101 |
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Because you can't simply take a wheel dyno number, add some mystery percentage, and assume that this is the crank HP number.
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06-04-2014, 06:15 PM | #102 |
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What does that have to do with them underrating the engine? The exact numbers are a mystery, but it's obvious that if it's dyno'ing 305/320 at the wheels then it's making more than 322/330 unless BMW has figured out how to achieve 5% drivetrain loss.
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06-04-2014, 07:31 PM | #103 |
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Check out Tuningwerk's M235i RS for what the next M2 will be like. I think that gives us a fairly good idea of the direction BMW will go. I hear even the guys from M GmbH say that TW's M235i is 90% of the M2 design. I can't wait to start seeing some prototypes running around on the German Autobahns!
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06-04-2014, 07:35 PM | #104 |
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Anyone care enough to pull their engine to dyno it solo?
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06-04-2014, 08:16 PM | #105 | |
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thanks! its on my desktop now. |
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06-04-2014, 10:26 PM | #106 | |
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In order to accurately calculate crank HP using a wheel dyno, you have to have a very special kind of dyno that most shops don't have. They don't need to know crank HP; they only need to know if the tuning they're doing is improving the output of the car.
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06-05-2014, 12:51 AM | #108 | |
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So they are saying is heavy but put up good numbers! |
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06-05-2014, 06:07 AM | #109 | |
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Looks like they changed the article (I cut and pasted what I originally posted directly from the article). They must have realized how silly that statement was. |
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06-05-2014, 08:20 PM | #110 |
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My two cents on the M debate. I have owned 6 M cars, E46 M3 coupe and convertible (six speeds), 2000 M Roadster, 2008 M Roadster, and two E93 DCT Convertibles. The 235 reminds me of the E46 in power, size, road feel and interior. The E93 is feels quicker (dct is major factor) and was nicer inside, especially the leather. I would have preferred an is badge, and will likely remove the M from the rear and the ridiculously small M badges on the side.
I traded my 2011 E93 in on the 235 and I have very few regrets.
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