03-25-2014, 09:42 AM | #353 |
Second Lieutenant
40
Rep 203
Posts |
I am an E92 M3 DCT owner I am in the market for M235i auto or A45 AMG. ( same engine and gear box as CLA45 ) Is the 4 banger really lack of throttle response? Isn't that the future? I know Porsche is going to use them on macan, compact panamera, and face lift boxster/cayman. I have zero experience with N54 and N55. Realistically, I like both cars but I would love to know some proper answers.
__________________
2011 E90 DCT, sold
2011 E92 DCT ZCP | Akrapovic full setup | Evolve stage II | OEM grille | splitter | spoiler |
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 10:26 AM | #354 | |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
Quote:
Moreover, the AMG turbocharged inline-4 pulls eagerly above 6000 rpm up to its redline, whereas my 1M's engine CLEARLY starts to run out of breath above that rpm. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 11:26 AM | #355 | |
Captain
468
Rep 781
Posts |
Quote:
It also perfectly explains why DSG gearbox in CLA45AMG is criticized for being so slow. It is extremely unlikely that Mercedes engineered a slow-shifting DSG given their technical supremacy. The real reason is that when DSG commands the engine to match the revs it has to wait for the sluggish boost to build up before it can engage the next gear. There is your slow throttle response in action. No wonder CLA45AMG is not equipped with manual gearbox and never will be: without DSG to blame its laggy throttle would be laid bare. And that's the last thing Mercedes wants for its engine: being put in the same category as overboosted ricer Civic from the 90s which it essentially is. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 12:09 PM | #356 |
Second Lieutenant
40
Rep 203
Posts |
Thanks for the reply. So N55 on the M235i reacts quicker and it has two more cylinders, and a larger displacement. How is it compare in real world against M133? I am betting it's much easier to tune N55 than M133? I am reading humongous hp/tq bump from after tuners for the AMG's. Perhaps this has something to with the engine made with forge materials by AMG? While N55 is just a regular production engine? Lastly, How is the 8 speed auto holding up? I never liked my 2010 C63's auto tranny. It was a junk.
__________________
2011 E90 DCT, sold
2011 E92 DCT ZCP | Akrapovic full setup | Evolve stage II | OEM grille | splitter | spoiler |
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:10 PM | #357 | |
TIM YOYO
1506
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
Quote:
It is far more difficult to catch the N55 flat-footed, but it doesn't deliver the same intensity of acceleration all the way through redline. I'd say that the M133 in the A45 AMG delivers a higher level of intensity, in exchange for some difference in character. There are definite, objective differences between the car, but which one you buy depends on what's most important to you. They're different enough cars when you drive both, I think it will be obvious which one you want. They're both fantastic cars.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:13 PM | #358 |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
These guys are not for real... how come someone says he is in the market for an A45 AMG implicitly stating at the same time that everything is better about the N55 engine?! I've heard this, I've heard that... what do you like about the 45 AMG then? As for the 7G-DCT being sluggish, this only happens on Manual mode downshifts at high revs and you can observe the exact same feature on the MUCH less powerful also automatic only CLA 250 which is equipped with a VERY different engine running a MUCH lower boost, thus it's clearly not a characteristic of the AMG 4cyl. engine. Everyone genuinely interested should try it for themselves. But people are free to believe in what they want so... let's the show continuing... Last edited by GoingTooFast; 03-25-2014 at 01:22 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:20 PM | #359 | |
TIM YOYO
1506
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
Quote:
When it comes to tuning, the equation is a bit more complex. For example, forged internals don't get you a lot of power increases on their own. They reduce reciprocating mass and increase strength, so you can run more post and turn more RPMs. That results in more power. So the tuning potential of the M133 looks good. However, you're still working with a base displacement of 2.0L. You can push a 2.0L engine to 700, 800, or even 900 HP. The M133 might even have the strength to handle those numbers, but those numbers won't come without a sacrifice. Have a look at the dyno plot for a small-displacement I4 that makes over 400 HP. You'll notice that the torque curve looks like a spike. You make a lot of power over a very small area of the RPM range. Personally, I have no desire to ever own a car like that, but plenty of other people do. Nothing wrong with that. It's just not the choice I'd make. You have to decide what your priorities are and go for it.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:22 PM | #360 | |
TIM YOYO
1506
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
Quote:
The advantage is clear illustrated by in-gear acceleration times for the M135i vs the CLA 45 AMG. I'd use the M235i as an example, but I haven't seen instrumented test yet. There is no reason to believe it will perform worse though. Your entire argument is predicated upon this incorrect claim of fact. Until you rectify that, you haven't a leg to stand on. You keep reasoning in black-and-white: Turbocharging is either good or bad. Four-cylinder engines are either good or bad. Throttle response is either good or bad. The CLA wins or loses. I'm not sure how you make it through daily life with this kind of attitude. There is clearly a continuum here. The throttle response of the N55 is worse than, for example, the N52. However, the N55's throttle response is better than the M133. The N55 makes far more power than the N52, yet there are plenty of members of the Bimmerpost forums who chose the 128i over the 135i, because they preferred the character of the N52. That's a valid choice. Porsche clearly has a higher level of commitment to driving character than BMW. I'm not sure there are many people here who would argue against that. But again, the world is not black & white. Just because Porsche has a high level of commitment to driving character does not mean that BMW has zero commitment to similar values.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:31 PM | #361 |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
Small turbo... there's only ONE turbo on the N55 engine. It's the N54 that has two turbos, one for each cylinder bank and even then, because they are so small, they cannot make the engine breadthe well enough above 6000 rpm making the 7000 rpm redline rather pointless... another marketing thing?!
Last edited by GoingTooFast; 03-25-2014 at 03:44 PM.. |
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:39 PM | #362 | |
Major General
1412
Rep 5,262
Posts |
Quote:
At least your opinions are consistent although a bit in denial....you remind me of some other guy with his 135is but to each its own... you can think whatever your want .... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:41 PM | #363 | |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
I guess I have to repeat myself...
Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 01:54 PM | #364 | |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
Quote:
This season is no exception... but providing that the necessary reliability is there the driver's role is now of much greater importance... so, let's see... |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 02:01 PM | #365 |
Major General
4457
Rep 9,160
Posts |
So it's not his fault that his teammates consistently seem to be capable of avoiding other cars, something Kobi seems completely incapable of? If he were the only car on the track, I just assume he'd smash through a barrier and drive into a car in the carpark.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 02:21 PM | #367 | ||
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 02:34 PM | #368 | |
Captain
140
Rep 606
Posts |
Yawns…. read the whole post, I drove the M235 auto which does it in 4.8 and yes - I found it a dull experience. Fast, but too efficient, totally flat torque curve and seamless gear shifts…
It is possible for a fast car to not be exciting. Bored talking to you now Quote:
|
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 03:29 PM | #369 |
Banned
89
Rep 1,247
Posts
Drives: fat cars are still boats
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: compensating a fat car with horsepower is like giving an alcoholic cocaine to sober him up.
|
It's not the engine you find bland since you've told you loved driving the manual version of the M135i which has the very same engine... it's the M235i's automatic transmission you've found dull, as stated by you.
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 03:41 PM | #370 | |
Second Lieutenant
48
Rep 297
Posts |
Quote:
Last edited by BMoney; 03-25-2014 at 04:47 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 05:13 PM | #371 | |
TIM YOYO
1506
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
Quote:
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
|
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 05:18 PM | #372 | ||
TIM YOYO
1506
Rep 3,282
Posts
Drives: 2013 M3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Vero Beach, FL
|
Quote:
Quote:
I want to back up a second and make sure our boy here (not you, btw) hasn't pigeonholed me in to a position that I don't hold. The CLA 45 AMG is an incredible car. From a pure performance standpoint, I felt like it bested the M235i when I drove them literally a few days apart. When prodded, the CLA 45 delivers. I don't think any of its flaws are terminal. Not by any stretch. It just has a different character, and part of that character is inherent to the physics involved. Twin-scroll turbos are an improvement, but I can still feel a distinct difference between the two cars. The difference between me and GTF is that I refuse to adhere to his false dichotomy. I can understand why someone would choose either. The CLA 45 is incredible, and I'm sure anyone who chooses it will be thrilled with it. Likewise with the M235i.
__________________
His: 2019 R1250GS - Black
Hers: 2013 X3 28i - N20 Mineral Silver / Sand Beige / Premium, Tech Past: 2013 ///M3 - Interlagos Blue Black M-DCT Past: 2010 135i - TiAg Coral Red 6MT ///M-Sport |
||
Appreciate
0
|
03-25-2014, 05:41 PM | #373 | |
Second Lieutenant
48
Rep 297
Posts |
Quote:
And for the record I don't agree with much of what GTF is saying! Last edited by BMoney; 03-25-2014 at 05:48 PM.. |
|
Appreciate
0
|
Post Reply |
Bookmarks |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
|