THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Lets talk about the electric steering from owners

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      07-17-2014, 08:44 PM   #1
ska///235i
***** noob
 
ska///235i's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

Posts: 8,864
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
BIMMERPOST
     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com
At this point what are your thoughts of the electric steering?

I'll go first...
Im now use to the light steering after a month of driving. Parallel parking is like cutting cake. It also makes the ride alot more comfortable (coming from a e90). The tension increase with speed and it feels real but its constantly trying to give you fake feedbacks. For example, im driving 80mph on a perfect smooth road and the steering is trying to give me feedback to the point where you think the car have a wheel balance issue. Another dislike is the unwinding, sometimes you feel the unnatural unwind of the wheel.

Overall is good but not perfect. I want ti know how good the m3/4 steering is comparing to m235
__________________
" Hey, your m235i is not a true M car"..."No shit, its a M Performance doe"
ska///235i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2014, 09:06 PM   #2
rwalker
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: the wheels off
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 363
iTrader: (1)

I agree about unnatural feedback. A gentle turn with an unloading bump doesn't come through as lightness, but should.
rwalker is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-17-2014, 09:12 PM   #3
3.0L
Private First Class
 
3.0L's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: California

Posts: 193
iTrader: (0)

So far, I'm reasonably happy with the steering. But, I just came from an electrically assisted steering RX-8. I don't feel much if any feed back, but that doesn't bother me. The car goes exactly where I point and feels very predictable. If I had a complaint, it would be that the steering is just a hair sensitive when cruising down some boring straight interstate at 80 MPH. I have learned to live with that by simply making very small inputs.
__________________
///M235i | Mineral Grey Metallic | Premium Package | Technology Package | Driver Assistance Package | Dakota Coral Red/Black Leather | Harman/Kardon Premium 360 watt sound system | 8-speed automatic | Overhead fanshaft | High lift door knobs
3.0L is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 07:56 AM   #4
hans007
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2013 328i estoril blue
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: culver city, ca

Posts: 234
iTrader: (0)

i dont have a 2 series (have an f30) and this is my first BMW (though i've driven a lot of e90s and e46s and a bunch of other E series bmws).

i don't get what all the whining is about. I think the steering is pretty good, I suppose maybe I just like the extra assist at normal speeds enough to make up for maybe some loss of feel at higher speeds. That said I came from a 2010 A4 which had hydraulic steering and the EPS on the F30 still feels a lot better than that. Its all relative I guess , I don't get why people lament that a car doesn't steer like some car that is no longer produced so much.

I mean if the m235i is even better than the f30, and the F80/f82 even better well I guess I am just happy with hamburger and havne't had steak yet .
hans007 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 10:12 AM   #5
ska///235i
***** noob
 
ska///235i's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

Posts: 8,864
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hans007
i dont have a 2 series (have an f30) and this is my first BMW (though i've driven a lot of e90s and e46s and a bunch of other E series bmws).

i don't get what all the whining is about. I think the steering is pretty good, I suppose maybe I just like the extra assist at normal speeds enough to make up for maybe some loss of feel at higher speeds. That said I came from a 2010 A4 which had hydraulic steering and the EPS on the F30 still feels a lot better than that. Its all relative I guess , I don't get why people lament that a car doesn't steer like some car that is no longer produced so much.

I mean if the m235i is even better than the f30, and the F80/f82 even better well I guess I am just happy with hamburger and havne't had steak yet .
Not whinning, when you purchase any item, you'll want the best but there're always criticism/feedbacks and thats what make future product improvements. BMW (or any other product) always take two steps forward and one step back.
__________________
" Hey, your m235i is not a true M car"..."No shit, its a M Performance doe"
ska///235i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 10:25 AM   #6
creepy coupe
Major General
 
creepy coupe's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK

Posts: 8,172
iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2009 335i  [0.00]
I'd happily forgo the variable assistance in favour of a constant weight.
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
Current car. M235i
Previous.M135i. 635d Coupe, E92 M3 manual, E93 M3 DCT Competition Pack. E92 335i, Porsche Cayman S Gen2, 135i Coupe. E92 320d, MK5 R32. MK5 Golf GTi,MK5 Golf GT-TDI,E46 318Ci.
creepy coupe is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 10:36 AM   #7
Bahuba
Private First Class
 
Bahuba's Avatar
 
Drives: MR 2014 M235i
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Posts: 134
iTrader: (0)

+1 on the unnatural unwinding. I came from a 135i, and although the electrical steering isn't bad, I prefer the old hydraulic system.
Bahuba is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 11:02 AM   #8
bimmerbuff
Slightly Obsessed
 
bimmerbuff's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 F22 228i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: New York

Posts: 212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ska///235i View Post
Overall is good but not perfect. I want ti know how good the m3/4 steering is comparing to m235
This. It's good but could be better. I would also like to know how the new M3/M4 steering is compared to the M235i. If it's better, hoping that comes to the M2.
bimmerbuff is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 11:27 AM   #9
Steven1077
Captain
 
Steven1077's Avatar
 
Drives: F32 435i M Sport
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London England

Posts: 787
iTrader: (0)

Can't comment on the M235 but my 435i feels pretty good, it's not that light and I've no problems with it, having driven older cars with hydraulic powered steering I can say I've had a lot worse than the 435i, and I've also driven plenty of cars without powered steering which were even worse
Steven1077 is offline   England
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 12:52 PM   #10
Squddie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 330Ci convertible
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bahston

Posts: 32
iTrader: (0)

I thought the 4-series is a lot worse than the 2-series. But the fact remains, Mercedes went to electric power steering taking a lot less bashing. The SLK for example is a nice little bouncy thing and it doesn't have e46 steering, but it is better than BMW's.

At another forum people are saying the problem is the thyssen rack and that the M4 is a lot better, with a ZF rack.

Wonder whether that is accurate and whether the ZF rack fits other cars
Squddie is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 01:59 PM   #11
ska///235i
***** noob
 
ska///235i's Avatar
 
Drives: M235i
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Boston

Posts: 8,864
iTrader: (31)

Garage List
2006 325xi  [0.00]
Here is an interesting article from CnD back in 2012 (EPS vs HPS)

The benefits of EPS for manufactures are the following:

Better gas mileage (1mpg)

No pressurized fluid/no hoses/less warranty claims

Easier installation from factory

More tolerant of out of spec alignment

The EPS motor is *programmable*

And then there is the tech piece of it like...motor driven, lane keeping, auto parking, etc





http://www.caranddriver.com/features...n-test-feature
__________________
" Hey, your m235i is not a true M car"..."No shit, its a M Performance doe"
ska///235i is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-18-2014, 02:28 PM   #12
Squddie
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: 330Ci convertible
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Bahston

Posts: 32
iTrader: (0)

If you have start/stop I suppose the loss of power support for the steering could irritate or frighten the uninformed driver, even though the car is standing.
Squddie is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2014, 02:55 AM   #13
Vlad-Miami
Second Lieutenant
 
Drives: BMW M235i MW/CR
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Miami Beach

Posts: 212
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squddie
If you have start/stop I suppose the loss of power support for the steering could irritate or frighten the uninformed driver, even though the car is standing.
Loss of power support happens on all cars with HPS (70% of cars at least), why would it frighten anyone? Also does it happen with EPS too?
Vlad-Miami is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2014, 09:14 AM   #14
Spitfi-r
Private
 
Drives: m235i
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East Coast

Posts: 62
iTrader: (0)

Here are my electric steering nitpicks:

1. At speed, the on-center 1/2" each direction has very little resistance, then all of the sudden you cross a threshold where the resistance all comes on in the next 1/2". I wish the resistance ramped up more slowly and progressively from center.

2. The weight is artificially heavy at speed. My e30 has a power steering delete (de-powered hydraulic rack with a bypass plate) and at speed it has less resistance than my m235.

3. At low speeds in the parking lot when moving the wheel quickly you can hear the sound of an electric motor "whirring".


anyone else notice this stuff?
__________________
m235i EB, Black, Hex trim, Cold, Premium, Tech, MT, sunroof delete: June 2014 euro delivery.
2001 330ci - DD (getting replaced by the 2)
1989 325is s52'd - track car
1991 318is - taking up space

Last edited by Spitfi-r; 07-19-2014 at 02:49 PM.
Spitfi-r is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-19-2014, 03:12 PM   #15
Researcher
Private
 
Drives: MG M235i / C7 3LT Z51
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: USA

Posts: 67
iTrader: (0)

Having owned corvettes in the past, I have to say the steering on the M235 is perfect. Much much better than last years vette and all before. It is perfect for all driving needs. I have no intention of comparing it to M3/4 as the conversation ALWAYS end up going there.
Researcher is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 12:27 AM   #16
Daddycat
Private
 
Drives: Estoril Blue 228i
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Las Cruces, NM

Posts: 60
iTrader: (0)

Like the steering in all the modes on my 228i. Comfort for around town and Sport/Sport + for breaking loose. My last two cars had electric steering and this is absolutely better. Wonder how much the M Sport suspension has to do with the way it feels, since seat-of-the-pants is now the main feedback mechanism? Anyway, might as well get use to it, no way any manufacturer can go back, for all the reasons ska///235i listed.
Daddycat is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 10:55 AM   #17
grant
Lieutenant
 
grant's Avatar
 
Drives: 1973 Porsche 911
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 525
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad-Miami View Post
Loss of power support happens on all cars with HPS (70% of cars at least), why would it frighten anyone? Also does it happen with EPS too?
Start/Stop is one of the primary reasons companies have adopted EPS. With hydraulic, there is total loss of power steering if the motor stops - with EPS, the system just runs from the battery when the motor is stopped.

I hate EPS, but I understand why it's here to stay. Hope they can improve it, but seems we may be destined to have lost good feel and feedback from modern steering (until cars can become light enough not to need power assist at all, like new little Alfa 4C).

Of course, the proper way to do power steering that can cope with Start/Stop is to have hydraulic steering where the pump is driven by an electric motor (all the feel of hydraulic with the efficiency and flexibility of EPS - just costs more and adds a little weight). This is how it's done in a McLaren 12C road car and factory Porsche race cars.
__________________
1973 Porsche Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
grant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 11:40 AM   #18
Pray for Mojo
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2014 M235i
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Calgary

Posts: 128
iTrader: (0)

I love it, our GTI has it and the BMW's is a bit better. I always felt feedback through the wheel is overrated. You can feel everything through the seat of your pants better than the steering wheel.
Pray for Mojo is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 11:44 AM   #19
grant
Lieutenant
 
grant's Avatar
 
Drives: 1973 Porsche 911
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Denver, CO

Posts: 525
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
I always felt feedback through the wheel is overrated. You can feel everything through the seat of your pants better than the steering wheel.
If you've ever owned a sports car with truly great feel and feedback through the steering you'd know that it's indespensible. Good chassis feel is a great addition, but not close to a substitute.

Since you are a GTI owner, ever drive the MKI version from the 1970's? That's a VW with great steering feel (manual rack and pinion).
__________________
1973 Porsche Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
grant is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 12:28 PM   #20
Ritz42
Private First Class
 
Drives: F22 & R56
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: 86Bro

Posts: 114
iTrader: (0)

It's certainly not the best eps system I've ever experienced, but its in the upper echelon of them. I have no real complaints, I like how it never feels too heavy in sport mode which is nice.
Ritz42 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 12:45 PM   #21
danimal
Captain
 
danimal's Avatar
 
Drives: '14 228i
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Diego, CA

Posts: 708
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by grant View Post
If you've ever owned a sports car with truly great feel and feedback through the steering you'd know that it's indespensible. Good chassis feel is a great addition, but not close to a substitute.

Since you are a GTI owner, ever drive the MKI version from the 1970's? That's a VW with great steering feel (manual rack and pinion).
I agree that we shouldn't just shrug our shoulders at the loss of feel, but I do think there are a lot of driving situations were it makes utterly no difference. I certainly would want as much feel as possible if driving close to the limits on a track. I would also want to know how much traction the tires were getting on wet or snowy pavement. But for everyday commuting and enthusiastic (but sub-7/10) drives through the twisties, I just don't sense much of a problem with the EPS. I can only assume that automakers will improve the programming to the point that at least a decent degree of feel is restored, but it may take a couple more generations before it catches up to hydraulic.
__________________
2014 228i
alpine white | sport line | 6-speed manual | lighting package | driver assistance package
interior - black Sensatec | aluminum & red trim


danimal is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      07-24-2014, 02:51 PM   #22
Ramos
Colonel
 
Ramos's Avatar
 
Drives: 2014 M235
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: So-Cal

Posts: 2,098
iTrader: (6)

It will never catch up to hydronic because it will always be simulated/fake/filtered feedback

It's like saying video games will catch up to real driving !!
Ramos is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:02 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST