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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning My M235i: BMW M-Performance Exhaust & aFe Intake!

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      03-29-2014, 07:08 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunner View Post
Who's data? The mfg promoting the dual intakes or in this case, afe? C'mon, the laws of physics changes for no man.
Quite a few posts on N54tech describing that at stock boost you gain minimal 5RWHP gains with better throttle response, however with a JB4 upping the boost will net you greater gains with it of course. You are correct the laws of physics changes for no man, which is why in the end more airflow is extremely important especially with FI engines. Terry has a post on there with the F30 showing this on dyno as well even stating that it is a MINIMAL gain without other supporting mods, nonetheless still a gain.

(I would link but I'm not sure if the forums allow or not).
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      03-29-2014, 07:40 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by JustinCredibleM View Post
If it did make it slower, then all the intake dynos would show it, but they all show some type of gain to be had. However, if you look at the intake, there is a box around so its enclosed to cool air when the hood is closed. Also, as cmkde mentioned, it should help at the higher boost levels with the JB4 since it'll allow more air to move through.
OP, I'm not a fan of JB4 or any other piggy back tunes. IMO, piggyback tunes are just not sophisticated enough and/or rely on unreliable sensors like the knock sensor to increase fuel, advance or retard timing when boost dials up or down. Sometimes, things go wrong and you detonate.

Here is a good video that factually describes a piggy back vs a real tune.

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      03-29-2014, 08:13 PM   #25
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Terry @ BMS also did some IAT comparisons with their filter and it showed almost no difference between the stock unit. I can't imagine the aFe being worse, especially with the heatshield/cover available. If you're planning to buy an aFe intake, then they do sell a box if you are worried about heat.

I don't believe Dinan has cracked the new ECU yet, or else I'd consider it. But I have not seen or read any issues with the JB4 though. And at this time, the JB4 seems to be the best dollar to horsepower unit out there that actually works. Once the new ECU is cracked, I might switch. But for now, I am okay with this and along with the other thousands of the boosted BMW owners out there that use the JB .
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      03-29-2014, 10:24 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustinCredibleM View Post
Terry @ BMS also did some IAT comparisons with their filter and it showed almost no difference between the stock unit. I can't imagine the aFe being worse, especially with the heatshield/cover available. If you're planning to buy an aFe intake, then they do sell a box if you are worried about heat.

I don't believe Dinan has cracked the new ECU yet, or else I'd consider it. But I have not seen or read any issues with the JB4 though. And at this time, the JB4 seems to be the best dollar to horsepower unit out there that actually works. Once the new ECU is cracked, I might switch. But for now, I am okay with this and along with the other thousands of the boosted BMW owners out there that use the JB .
OP, not to rain on your parade. When you break something and need it to bring it to BMW for service, just remember that your VIN may very well be flagged (whether you take out that piggy or not) and you might run the risk of voiding your beautiful new car warranty. I have seen it happen.
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      03-29-2014, 10:49 PM   #27
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I've already taken my car in with the intake and downpipe on, but good thing I am good friends with the techs and the service advisor . I am aware of the risks, but different strokes for different folks. Everyone takes a risk with modifications but I've never been one to restrict myself from having fun with something I bought with my hard earned money.

Last edited by JustinCredibleM; 03-30-2014 at 12:41 AM.
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      03-29-2014, 10:49 PM   #28
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I surely hope you don't run around on the 3,4,5, and 6 forums making sure people don't mod their cars and go on about how they may lose their warranties. What a drag, like the old guy asking people to play it safe and by the rules all the time.
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      03-30-2014, 12:06 AM   #29
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You still lose your factory warranty with Dinan parts anyways. It just so happens that Dinan will pick up where BMW left off. Not everyone wants a Dinan tune, even if they could afford it or know that it doesn't void the "warranty." I certainly will be going with a JB4 on my M235i when I get it due to the fact that there is a lot of information on its development as well as plenty of testing of its performance, which has led to its current, mature, iteration. This to me makes the JB4 worth it, to know that it has gone through many revisions over time to reach the 'perfect' version. Even then, the JB4 is continuously being updated as well, which may add new features to push the performance envelope (which is the driving force behind why many of us modify our cars and some to the extreme limit). The Dinan tune is great if you just want a plug-n-play product that you can forget about and have some peace of mind, but the JB4 is for the enthusiasts who are looking to extract the most potential from their cars or to do even more hardcore stuff not possible with the Dinan.
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      03-30-2014, 06:18 AM   #30
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Where did you get the exhaust? I have been looking but no luck. Dealer not aware of this performance part.
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      03-30-2014, 08:09 AM   #31
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The Dinan AD shows that re-programming at the ECU level is the best way to achieve a tune that works without harming the engine. Dinan is charging $1600 plus for a tune, ProTunes start at $500 and up and you will more than likely need an ODBII programmer on top of that. What makes the JB4 (Stage 1) in my case very attractive is the price and ease of installation. The reason I decided to fork over the lessor amount of money compare to other options currently available.

My plan, get a base dyno on the car with A/F chart. Install the enclosed aFe instake system and the JB4 Stage 1 and get another dyno run afterwards. If my tuner (doing tunes for nearly 20 years) determines this is hurting more than helping my car's overall health in any way I will pull it and return it, no harm no foul (just a couple $$ less in the pocket). I had a Dinan S2 installed on my E92 and thought it was fantastic! When I took my car into BMW dealership for a required ECU update they actually were able to save the Dinan tune and make the required DME changes without removing the Dinan updates. So, BMW doesn't automatically void your warranty when they see something outside OEM on the car, at least in my real world experience. If the JB4 isn't the right way to go I will spend the large sum of money again for the Dinan tune as I know from experience if does work well and no issues with BMW service afterwards.

BMS has been selling JB4 Piggyback boxes for a while with many good reviews from owners online. With that, I will give it a try and see if it does truly increase performance and not cause damage to my engine. For the low entry price and ease, I feel it is worth a shot. Will share my experience with everyone so you can add this owner to one of the long list of lore about Piggyback vs ECU tunes.
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      03-30-2014, 08:14 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boneman View Post
Where did you get the exhaust? I have been looking but no luck. Dealer not aware of this performance part.
The M performance exhaust and tips can be order directly through your BMW Parts counter, or online. The part numbers are:

M Performance Muffler 18 30 2 293 766
M Performance Tips 18 30 2 354 364

Turner Motorsports can sell it shipped to US addresses for under $1100. You should try and get your dealer to sell it you for less than that since you just bought a new M235i from them
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      03-30-2014, 08:56 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunner View Post
Who's data? The mfg promoting the dual intakes or in this case, afe? C'mon, the laws of physics changes for no man.
Pictures are gone from this old thread but the conclusions are still there. Bottom line, cold air intake pulling from the fender, or dual cone sitting by the engine, about an 8 degree difference with a $300 price difference. At higher horsepower levels the stock box became a choke point (>350 whp).

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=262270

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunner View Post
OP, I'm not a fan of JB4 or any other piggy back tunes. IMO, piggyback tunes are just not sophisticated enough and/or rely on unreliable sensors like the knock sensor to increase fuel, advance or retard timing when boost dials up or down. Sometimes, things go wrong and you detonate.
Do you. Wait for straight flash. Combo piggy and flash seems to also work very well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chunner View Post
OP, not to rain on your parade. When you break something and need it to bring it to BMW for service, just remember that your VIN may very well be flagged (whether you take out that piggy or not) and you might run the risk of voiding your beautiful new car warranty. I have seen it happen.
You sound just like the former owner of a local Dinan authorized shop who told me he had an engine in the back that blew up due to a piggy. About 45 min later when talking to the lead shop mechanic his story was that the engine hydro-locked from a cold air intake sucking in water.

I have never run Terry's BMS tunes, but I think there is nothing to worry about by running his piggy conservatively. Warranty being voided? Who knows. You pay to play. I've always avoided the dealers service area although I have used some of their best techs that are doing side weekend work, great independent shops, and enthusiasts that have great track records. YMMV.
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Last edited by scottp999; 03-30-2014 at 09:10 AM.
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      03-30-2014, 12:06 PM   #34
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Thanks Delnari. I will try again with the numbers.
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      03-30-2014, 05:20 PM   #35
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Quote:
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Where did you get the exhaust? I have been looking but no luck. Dealer not aware of this performance part.
Check with your dealer, as they got it for me and gave me a nice price since I got the car from them . They just looked up my VIN# and said their warehouse had a bunch in stock and ordered one for me. I can't imagine your dealer not being able to get it though.
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      03-31-2014, 08:12 AM   #36
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Thanks Justin I pick up the car today and I told the salesman to seee about adding the exhaust as part of the deal. The car is the first in Raleigh and has a lot of extras I dont need or want. Will see what they say. If they don't I will see if I can order a different car and have it ordered with the car. Will see
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      03-31-2014, 01:31 PM   #37
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Thanks Justin I pick up the car today and I told the salesman to seee about adding the exhaust as part of the deal. The car is the first in Raleigh and has a lot of extras I dont need or want. Will see what they say. If they don't I will see if I can order a different car and have it ordered with the car. Will see
Hope it works out for you =).
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      03-31-2014, 02:57 PM   #38
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Went out to get the car Dyno'd this morning. No go! The tuner wanted to hook-up the rear tie downs to the where the BMW jack mounts are located by breaking the plastic covers off. Didn't sound right to me so I postpone to get some other opinions.

Did stop by my selling dealer to get price quote on M Performance exhaust with tips and M Performance Steering Alcantara/Carbon wheel without electronic display. Nice quote of $931 for the exhaust with tips, waiting for the quote on the wheel as he had to double-check the parts.

Will make a new thread if I ever get the baseline Dyno done...
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      03-31-2014, 03:52 PM   #39
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Nice! That's how much I paid for mine too.
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      04-01-2014, 12:52 PM   #40
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Finally had the car up on a new lift Jack today. What I found is the stock exhaust pipe is a solid single pipe from the downpipe connection all way through to the stock muffler. No clamps to remove except for the single V-Clamp at the downpipe. This not going to allow me to simply install a new rear muffler like I thought

Connection up front to the downpipe


From the rear looking to the front




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      04-01-2014, 01:26 PM   #41
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The muffler comes with its own clamp, so the dealer just removed my old muffler and put on the new one in 30 mins.
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      04-01-2014, 05:25 PM   #42
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How difficult would you guys say doing this on your own would be? My friend and I have changed the exhaust system on his Genesis Coupe before, which in pictures, seems more difficult compared to this one.

Anybody that did it themselves have an opinion? Thanks!
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      04-01-2014, 05:29 PM   #43
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You need to cut off the old muffler to clamp on the new one. It should be easy if you're comfortable cutting .
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      04-01-2014, 06:35 PM   #44
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Looking, and sounding good! Were hoping to have a downpipe ready for this car within the next 4 weeks. HFC and catless

I suspect our F30 rear section and mid pipe should only need small tweaks to the parts in our jig to fit the M235 as well.
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