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      02-15-2014, 04:59 AM   #1
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Bashing on the 2 Series Active Tourer

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Check out what this tool had to say...

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...rer-76947.html

Do you agree? I think that despite it's flaws this model will sell and it will sell big, being the only alternative to Merc's B-Class. I still can't get why everyone is giving BMW such a hard time for having FWD vehicles. MB did it too a long time ago and there was nowhere near as much flack going around.

Furthermore, the 'traditional' models are still here, you can still get an M3, M5 etc so there's a choice for everyone out there... Why is this model such a bad idea?
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      02-15-2014, 07:40 AM   #2
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Maybe the push towards exclusive xdrive will finally allow them to merge fully with Toyota to share all platforms and build fwd chassis that have xdrive on it.

This is just a dooms day scenario of course.
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      02-16-2014, 08:41 AM   #3
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I see no problem with the AT. Lust like the Cayenne allowed Porsche to make its sports cars even better, so too will this. It's not like the next M3 will be a FWD hatchback. These people need to chill.
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      04-07-2014, 06:17 AM   #4
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I have no problem with this vehicle, just don't understand the 2 series badging...
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      04-07-2014, 11:39 AM   #5
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He has some good points.
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      04-08-2014, 10:18 AM   #6
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The car is pretty lame, I mean obviously, but the article is garbage as well. Like it is clearly for an odd market. I mean it is like a weird euro get around touring car. It's not meant to be a sport coupe lol.
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      04-08-2014, 08:51 PM   #7
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i hate this car, but i LOVE that it is angering people.....so well done BMW!
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      04-15-2014, 06:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1erAddict View Post
Check out what this tool had to say...

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...rer-76947.html

Do you agree? I think that despite it's flaws this model will sell and it will sell big, being the only alternative to Merc's B-Class. I still can't get why everyone is giving BMW such a hard time for having FWD vehicles. MB did it too a long time ago and there was nowhere near as much flack going around.

Furthermore, the 'traditional' models are still here, you can still get an M3, M5 etc so there's a choice for everyone out there... Why is this model such a bad idea?
Why is he a "tool"? He's a BMW fan. You might not know what that means, being that you might be late to the party. In the eyes of the true enthusiast, BMW *is* dying a slow death. Sales are another story.

As for the M3.. they aren't still here. There's something else in it's place. Yes you can argue it isn't THAT big a departure (although.. it is). But it's those steps that BMW is taking. The author argues that the Cayenne is tolerable because it supports the 911. Last I checked, the 911 is still a pure sports car (EPS aside). The M3 is a pig and the engine is nothing to write home about anymore. You'd think we could have hardcore versions with all these idiotic N55 and N20 powered spinoffs, the FWD 2 series, the X3, X5, X6, X7, etc. But we don't!

It just isn't the same company that a lot of us were originally drawn to. The 2 series active tourer is like the nail in the coffin.
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      04-18-2014, 05:10 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Why is he a "tool"? He's a BMW fan. You might not know what that means, being that you might be late to the party. In the eyes of the true enthusiast, BMW *is* dying a slow death. Sales are another story.

As for the M3.. they aren't still here. There's something else in it's place. Yes you can argue it isn't THAT big a departure (although.. it is). But it's those steps that BMW is taking. The author argues that the Cayenne is tolerable because it supports the 911. Last I checked, the 911 is still a pure sports car (EPS aside). The M3 is a pig and the engine is nothing to write home about anymore. You'd think we could have hardcore versions with all these idiotic N55 and N20 powered spinoffs, the FWD 2 series, the X3, X5, X6, X7, etc. But we don't!

It just isn't the same company that a lot of us were originally drawn to. The 2 series active tourer is like the nail in the coffin.
Agree, why do you guys have to call anyone that disagrees with BMW's lame choices a tool or hater? He's not a hater...he's a LOVER of what BMW did before and of what they SAY they are making now. The fact is that it's not jiving with reality. They are not building the Ultimate Driving Machine right now.

BMW is not leading, they are following to a large part. They follow Audi with lame two colors mirrors. They follow VW with front drive cars. They follow American cars with window controls in the doors when they had it right in the first place.

I'm sure there was a "tool" in Jonestown that was telling people.....don't drink the kool-aid!

Last edited by nachob; 04-18-2014 at 07:42 PM.
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      04-21-2014, 10:17 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
BMW is not leading, they are following to a large part. They follow Audi with lame two colors mirrors. They follow VW with front drive cars. They follow American cars with window controls in the doors when they had it right in the first place.
Don't forget 8 speed autos, M cars with turbos, M SUV's, etc. Love the point about the window switches. It is the marked departure from when BMWs were driver oriented to now, the ultimate selling machine. Having them by the shifter was a statement about driving.

Not a whole lot of point posting on BP these days. The glory days are alive and well over at BFc. Just a lot of fanboys here throwing their money at BMWs latest monstrosities. And before anyone gets offended, I was one of them. Came to my senses though.
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      04-22-2014, 11:14 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Don't forget 8 speed autos, M cars with turbos, M SUV's, etc. Love the point about the window switches. It is the marked departure from when BMWs were driver oriented to now, the ultimate selling machine. Having them by the shifter was a statement about driving.

Not a whole lot of point posting on BP these days. The glory days are alive and well over at BFc. Just a lot of fanboys here throwing their money at BMWs latest monstrosities. And before anyone gets offended, I was one of them. Came to my senses though.
Obviously I agree with this. BMW cannot make a single normally aspirated car which will not make as much power as the turbo cars but gives you instantaneous throttle response and control over the vehicle. I also think that the Porsche Cayenne SUV is not in line with Porsche's mission BUT they use it to pay for making driver's cars like the Cayman, Boxster and GT3. The issue I have is that they are making M SUVs with runflats but not making the fully driver oriented vehicles. They now force iDrive and dymanic suspensions, tv screens on you and they take off oil temp gauge and follow the crowd with window controls in the door that are not driver oriented. Obviously the center is the best position for controlling the cars peripherals which is why the put the idrive controllers in the middle. So if I could order an M235i as light as possible with fixed M suspension, no video games and driver oriented controls and gauges, I would be more likely to put up with M SUVs and front wheel drive BMWs.

Where I do respectfully part ways that I don't want to call those that like it names like Fanboys, etc. It goes to the heart of my first post where as soon as we disagree with someone we lump people into groups like tools, haters and fanboys. I think the bottom line is we are all in one way or another BMW fans. Some of us don't like that BMW is leaving the harder edged guys behind. Because we care that makes us voice our opinions. If we didn't care we would be indifferent. I learned a big lesson when my brother went of to Afghanistan and I met many of his platoon mates. They disagreed on many issues even hard ones like gun control, taxes, etc. Yet at the end of the day, they loved their country and were standing side by side in harms way. I hope that clarifies things a bit.

Last edited by nachob; 04-22-2014 at 12:03 PM.
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      05-10-2014, 01:35 AM   #12
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While BMW is making hardcore sports cars for pure enthusiasts, Audi and Mercedes are running the show. Can BMW suddenly spawn enough hardcore enthusiasts to cover up dwindling sales of their automobiles? Or will the niche group be willing to pay 5 times for the same car to keep BMW a true enthusiasts car? Since none of that can realistically happen, the only viable option left is to compete -- that means brand segmentation, volume productions, and front wheel drive active tourers.

It is Business 101 really. It needs to stay atop it's sales numbers to stay competitive - hardcore enthusiasts alone aren't making that happen. It still does the best it can, by delivering cars like the M235i for under 50 grand.

A business cannot keep everyone happy. With what it has, and what competition it is faced against, BMW is doing pretty damn well.

--

Also wanted to comment on the end of that article where is says BMW is far behind sales numbers compared to MB and Audi. Not sure sales numbers matter, but not sure where that statistic comes from either. I think the 3 series leads, and has been leading the sales number for a while now.

Last edited by utsavized; 05-10-2014 at 01:47 AM.
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      05-12-2014, 11:36 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by utsavized View Post
While BMW is making hardcore sports cars for pure enthusiasts, Audi and Mercedes are running the show. Can BMW suddenly spawn enough hardcore enthusiasts to cover up dwindling sales of their automobiles? Or will the niche group be willing to pay 5 times for the same car to keep BMW a true enthusiasts car? Since none of that can realistically happen, the only viable option left is to compete -- that means brand segmentation, volume productions, and front wheel drive active tourers.

It is Business 101 really. It needs to stay atop it's sales numbers to stay competitive - hardcore enthusiasts alone aren't making that happen. It still does the best it can, by delivering cars like the M235i for under 50 grand.

A business cannot keep everyone happy. With what it has, and what competition it is faced against, BMW is doing pretty damn well.

--

Also wanted to comment on the end of that article where is says BMW is far behind sales numbers compared to MB and Audi. Not sure sales numbers matter, but not sure where that statistic comes from either. I think the 3 series leads, and has been leading the sales number for a while now.
Business 101:
A fish doesn't have to stink to be dead!

BMW is doing well because it is cashing in on the ///M cache. At the rate it's going that M cache will mean nothing soon. High sales now don't mean sales in the future. BMW cannot compete on reliablity, or value, it has to compete on being the Ultimate Driving Machine and they are abandoning that slowly.

Maybe you are referring to American Business 101 which only looks at the next quarter profits. So if it looks good next quarter you are on the right track. Like American companies that were doing great building gas guzzling luxo-trucks for years with no long term plans for diesel, hybrids, electrics. Two of our biggest manufacturers went bankrupt with this sort of thinking. Sales are good now so all is good. Why would you buy a front wheel drive BMW at a premium when you can buy a better looking Audi or VW for less? Scion, Toyota, even Lexus or Kia?

Finally, hard core enthusiasts matter! Why do you think Lexus makes an LFA? To make money? No, they lose money, they do it to establish credentials with the press and hard core enthusiasts which translates into more sales for lower end models.

Finally, they don't have to spend more money to help the hard core people.

Why won't BMW USA sell the European cloth Alcantara interior instead of vinyl? Why can't you get an M badged car without iDrive or fake sound? How about offering a lighter version with less fluff? It would cost them nothing but give the hard core people something love? Instead they build a carbon roof and drive shaft on the M3 but force more crap into the cars like mandatory iDrive, screens, etc.

If you don't believe me, look at Car and driver, the most staunch BMW lovers! BMWs are losing the comparisons to Audi! BMW is coming in second! Uninspiring sound, steering, etc etc.

So this fish smells great now but it might be dead!
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      05-27-2014, 03:37 PM   #14
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You can tell some of you know not much about rear wheel drive versus front wheel drive and how BMW went out of their way to take us owners to the race track and show the huge difference by asking us to drive supplied front wheel drive Audi's even 4 wheel drive Audi's.

BMW have given in and are losing their way.

The one thing BMW does have is their fantastic 8 speed auto. Their is no other manufacture who comes close to it.

Go and test drive a new mini or Audi on some nice twisty roads and see if pulling a car along versus pushing a car through the corners is better.

BMW has Mini for front wheel drive they should build on that and leave BMW rear wheel drive.
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      06-01-2014, 02:53 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stefan View Post
Don't forget 8 speed autos, M cars with turbos, M SUV's, etc. Love the point about the window switches. It is the marked departure from when BMWs were driver oriented to now, the ultimate selling machine. Having them by the shifter was a statement about driving.

Not a whole lot of point posting on BP these days. The glory days are alive and well over at BFc. Just a lot of fanboys here throwing their money at BMWs latest monstrosities. And before anyone gets offended, I was one of them. Came to my senses though.
Well I bid you farewell, at least you won't have to come to bimmerpost anymore.
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      06-02-2014, 08:08 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1erAddict View Post
Check out what this tool had to say...

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/bm...rer-76947.html

Do you agree? I think that despite it's flaws this model will sell and it will sell big, being the only alternative to Merc's B-Class. I still can't get why everyone is giving BMW such a hard time for having FWD vehicles. MB did it too a long time ago and there was nowhere near as much flack going around.

Furthermore, the 'traditional' models are still here, you can still get an M3, M5 etc so there's a choice for everyone out there... Why is this model such a bad idea?

I agree with the author.
Even the name doesn't work, an "BMW Active Tourer..?" That is a 2-Series, instead of a it's own series.. this car makes zero sense from BMW.

BMW's don't sell FWD cars..

I wouldn't care one bit if it was an Asian only car, but when Germany tries to sell this in America, it is a sign of profiteering. As BMW has purposely not brought hatchbacks over for the last 10 years, but then surprises no one with a Ford Escape wannabe, Active Tourer..?

I personally don't know a single soul, who would want this, or is shopping for an uber-small FWD BMW... lol (the car is laughable and embarrassing for Americas to look upon. Heck, why not just offer a 5-door M235i instead.. probably just as much space as an active Tourer... lol


Turdstain:
Perhaps BMW doesn't know what they have done to their own image in the last 3 years in America. Most BMW diehards are leaving the brand... leaving the ignorant public to fall victim to BMW's namesake.

BMW has now become the General Motors of the World, with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, I, X, & M... B L O A T E D..!


I am buying a Ford GT350 in 2 years, instead of the M2/M4 because it represent better focus from a manufacturer, than a clouded portfolio and a weakening M-division. (Which has been taken over by penny pinchers)

The Active Tourer represent EXACTLY what I am talking about (& others) within BMW.. along with the I-series. BMW is more interested in focus group designed cars, than focused cars. BMW should change their namesake to "Largest Common Denominator"... BMW's new mega portfolio has ruined the brand flavor.. which has become bland.


BMW should be worried about quintessential first, GCD style cars second. What does BMW produce, that is quintessential..?
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      06-02-2014, 08:26 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by SOM3 View Post
Well I bid you farewell, at least you won't have to come to bimmerpost anymore.
The only time an enthusiast comes to BimmerPost anymore, is to read up on the M2.. what else is holding BMW together..?

The M3/M4 are family size cruisers/highway bombers.. same size as a 5 series just a few years ago. I was thinking of upsizing to an M3, if I had a kid... and needed more room in the back seat.

Otherwise 1M, M2 M235i> M3/M4
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      06-02-2014, 09:32 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by w3rkn View Post
The only time an enthusiast comes to BimmerPost anymore, is to read up on the M2.. what else is holding BMW together..?

The M3/M4 are family size cruisers/highway bombers.. same size as a 5 series just a few years ago. I was thinking of upsizing to an M3, if I had a kid... and needed more room in the back seat.

Otherwise 1M, M2 M235i> M3/M4
I respect your opinion and somewhat agree although bimmerpost is directed to all BMW consumers not just ///M enthusiast.

To me for instance, 1-series BMW are some of the ugliest cars produced (not just BMWs), I would probably pick this Active Tourer over 128 given the choice. 1M is a much better version of 1 series although the front end is still ugly...its performance is its savior.

2-series cars improve on the 1 series tremendously in the looks department but interior still lacks.

What that means at least for me M3 is the way to go, even though it is as you said more of a family cruiser it will smoke all the cars you listed ahead of it on the track.
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