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      01-20-2014, 11:46 AM   #23
BimmerMat135
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I'm just wondering about the power figures of that 4cyl. If they haven't been able to make more than 141bhp/liter with the S55 how are they going to achieve 350+bhp with a 2.0 liter displacement engine?
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      01-20-2014, 11:50 AM   #24
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This (a 4 cyl. M2) can be a very good thing or not, it really depends how BMW will treat this new small M car in relation to other cars in the line up. The only thing that I could really complain about the 1M was probably that it is not really light, just doesn't feel its weight because of the torque most of the time, so maybe a 4 cyl. M2 would do better in that area. I hope that it will have the attitude and stance of 1M more than anything though: an aggressive and agile little coupe which is up for anything. There are too many unknowns at this moment and it looks like this will be a long wait.
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      01-20-2014, 11:50 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135
I'm just wondering about the power figures of that 4cyl. If they haven't been able to make more than 141bhp/liter with the S55 how are they going to achieve 350+bhp with a 2.0 liter displacement engine?
It wasn't that they couldn't make more power with the S55 as much as they didn't want to. They were focused more on lowering the weight than they were outright power.
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      01-20-2014, 11:51 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason View Post
Some BMW M2 speculative renderings:























If it ends up looking like this, I will sign my soul off to the devil to own this car.
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      01-20-2014, 11:53 AM   #27
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4 cylinders make lots of sense.

I8's 1.5l, 3cyl. engine output is 77hp per cylinder. And that is a non M engine. A 4cyl. engine with the same specific output would make 308hp. Put in some of the M's "high response turbo" magic from the upcoming M4/M3 and it could easily climb toward 350 very responsive hp, or even more. I'd guess this engine could be all the A/CLA/GLA45AMG's engine isn't.
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      01-20-2014, 11:55 AM   #28
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Looks better than the M4 IMO.
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      01-20-2014, 11:55 AM   #29
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If BMW makes an M2, and if it ends up 4 cyl power, this will definitely be the reincarnation of the original E30 M3. Let's see if this becomes reality. Keeping my fingers crossed.
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      01-20-2014, 11:56 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance View Post
I agree, unless there are plans to up the power on the M3/M4 there won't be much room to squeeze this car in between the M235i and M3
Sure there is, M235i is rated at 0-60 in what 4.7-4.8 seconds (actually around the same time as a 335i xdrive.)

The new M3 is at 3.9 seconds. They can lower the weight of a m235i, use a 4 cyl with around the same output as the CLA (350 HP, 340 torque), so its got a little more juice than the M235 but weight loss is what a lot of M2 buyers will care about, and it won't be such a huge performance boost to get it under 4.1-4.2 seconds 0-60 times, although track times may close in on the M3/M4. One thing they will probably do is limit options on the M2, like no Merino leather, maybe some other "luxury" items, so the people who want those can't just step down to a M2, and there are plenty of people like me who need a car that can fit a family in it.
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      01-20-2014, 11:57 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///Mangler
360hp/340tq 29xxlbs DCT. Just going to leave this right here.

T
+1

wide ass and rubber also, if possible "track package"
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      01-20-2014, 12:01 PM   #32
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So much for aftermarket tuning No replacement for displacement, booooo hisssss
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      01-20-2014, 12:02 PM   #33
dd1981
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article.

BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive.
Where did you get the confirmation of a 4cyl?
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      01-20-2014, 12:11 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmerMat135 View Post
I'm just wondering about the power figures of that 4cyl. If they haven't been able to make more than 141bhp/liter with the S55 how are they going to achieve 350+bhp with a 2.0 liter displacement engine?
They'll make some compromises. I assure you BMW has the capability to make more than 141hp/liter with the N55/S55 platform; just turn up the boost. The question is, what would the character of that engine be? Read/listen to reviews of the new M235i vs the CLA/A45 AMG. Nearly every review I've read has mentioned the fact that there is less waiting for torque delivery in the M235i. This is because of the larger base displacement. A light pressure turbo attached to a large displacement engine delivers a more linear driving experience than a high pressure turbo attached to a small displacement engine.

The M2 is shaping up to be something quite different than the M3/4. The M3 has grown in to a far more refined version of itself. It's the purest driving experience BMW has to offer, but it's not as pure as it was in the past. It's looking like the M2 will fill in the gap that has grown as the M3 moved more toward the GT end of the spectrum.
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      01-20-2014, 12:19 PM   #35
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if its only four cylinders then it might be a four cylinder 2.5 liter... then they might have my attention and interest i think the an S20 would not work for me... definitely its only 300 hp, need more... more hp... more more
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      01-20-2014, 12:21 PM   #36
bradleyland
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich@GTBPerformance View Post
I agree, unless there are plans to up the power on the M3/M4 there won't be much room to squeeze this car in between the M235i and M3
I was thinking the same. If you look at the pricing gap between the M235i and the M3/4, there's plenty of room, but on the performance side, there's a narrow window.

BMW states 0-100 km/h in 4.8s on the M235i page. The M4 coupe technical data page states 0-100km/h in 4.1-4.3s. So, you're dealing with a window of around 0.5s when you look at this single dimension. I think the answer to the "where does this fit" question probably lies in the "single dimension" part. BMW may not seek to differentiate the M2 significantly in the 0-100km/h department. The published figures may only be 0.1-0.2s faster than the M235i. If my intuition is correct, the focus will be in the handling and road holding department; especially handling.

The greatest evidence of this can be found in the rumors of an I4 power plant. The 328i has been widely praised as having better balance and handling than the 335i. Yes, the 335i is faster in almost every objective measure, but the lower weight of the N20 engine reduces weight in just the right spot. Mass-market customers will opt for the 335i and not blink an eye, because they're not focused on the finer points of handling, they're focused on what happens when they put their foot down. And that's fine; not looking to start a flame war here. Both the 328i and 335i are fantastic cars, but a buyer might choose one or the other for a variety of reasons.

It's all about making a car for each type of buyer.

At least that's my hope. If significant effort is made to reduce weight and tune the steering and chassis for feedback and predictability, I'd be more than happy to pay a premium in spite of similar 0-60 times.
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      01-20-2014, 12:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland View Post
They'll make some compromises. I assure you BMW has the capability to make more than 141hp/liter with the N55/S55 platform; just turn up the boost. The question is, what would the character of that engine be? Read/listen to reviews of the new M235i vs the CLA/A45 AMG. Nearly every review I've read has mentioned the fact that there is less waiting for torque delivery in the M235i. This is because of the larger base displacement. A light pressure turbo attached to a large displacement engine delivers a more linear driving experience than a high pressure turbo attached to a small displacement engine.

The M2 is shaping up to be something quite different than the M3/4. The M3 has grown in to a far more refined version of itself. It's the purest driving experience BMW has to offer, but it's not as pure as it was in the past. It's looking like the M2 will fill in the gap that has grown as the M3 moved more toward the GT end of the spectrum.
And who says it has to be a 2,0 just because its a 4 cyl. Take the S55, cut of 2 cyls, bore the remaining 4 up from 84mm to 88mm and you have a 2,2l ready for some high revs.
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      01-20-2014, 12:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gangsta D View Post
if its only four cylinders then it might be a four cylinder 2.5 liter... then they might have my attention and interest i think the an S20 would not work for me... definitely its only 300 hp, need more... more hp... more more
I wouldn't count on it being a 2.5L I4. In order to stay in business, BMW has to adapt to the current engineering and economic environment. All their competitors use modular engine design in order to reduce costs. In order to compete, BMW must use the same. This is the reason the S55 is less bespoke than the S65/S85.

Both the N20 and the N55/S55 use a 500cc per-cylinder modular engine design. More importantly, they both share an 84mm bore. Someone more technical would have to chime in to let us know if they can go larger on the bore than that without materials issues. I wouldn't think they'd increase the stroke too much in order to avoid the need for changes to piston/rod/crank designs.

This is all conjecture, of course, but in terms of likelihood, we can look to the current trends to infer the future outcome.
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      01-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84 View Post
It would be hard not to pick up an M2 after my lease on the M235i comes up

Scott, do you know if this will be a one off, limited production cycle like the 1M or will it be in the line up for a few years?
Exactly--get the M235 now and the M2 in 3 years.

Perfect.
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      01-20-2014, 12:31 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Inge_F View Post
And who says it has to be a 2,0 just because its a 4 cyl. Take the S55, cut of 2 cyls, bore the remaining 4 up from 84mm to 88mm and you have a 2,2l ready for some high revs.
I agree that if they were going to do anything, they'd increase the bore, but a 4mm overbore would be a pretty significant operation. I don't know if the materials permit.

When I say "I don't know", I mean that literally, not rhetorically. I have no idea. Does anyone know if the cylinder liner thickness in the N20 would permit a significant overbore without changes to the block?

EDIT: I would like to point out that a 0.050 overbore would be considered on the high side for most engines. That is 1.27mm. I would be very surprised if the N20 could be bored 4mm.
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      01-20-2014, 12:37 PM   #41
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I just hope they offer a DCT this time...I want ultra fast gear changes.
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      01-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #42
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My biggest concerns Is whether I should put down a deposit now or wait. Is BMW going to make this an "exclusive" product like the 1M or is it going to be available to anyone whom wants one?
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      01-20-2014, 12:40 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dd1981
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26
Drop two cylinders of the Autoexpress article.

BMW want the fastest four cylinder car in its segment. They also want the M2 to be the most progressive and dynamic car in its segment as well as the lightest performance car. They want a car that has a soul, unlike the Mercedes-Benz AMG A45/CLA 45 which are soulless to drive.
Where did you get the confirmation of a 4cyl?
Is this a serious question? He has been our inside man FOR YEARS, and he's always right. Bite your tongue!!!
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      01-20-2014, 12:51 PM   #44
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Quote:
The BMW M2 is expected to go on sale in 2016 at around £50,000 - ensuring it is distanced from the M3 and M4, which start at £56,175 and £56,643 respectively.

So it is going to be £10,000 more than the 1 Series M with 2 less cylinders. That should keep 1M resale values near their original MSRP.
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