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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum BMW 2 Series Coupe and Cabriolet (F22/F23) General Forum Good Look at BMW 2 Series Coupe (F22) vs. Convertible (F23) Mules. No 235i Coming.

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      02-15-2013, 11:52 AM   #45
kevinlevrone
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If you want DCT you'll have to get the M2, and not the M235i. But then you might not like the 4 banger of the M2.
I don't think it's possible to have an M235i with 6 cylinder engine and an M2 with 4-cylinder engine. It would be stupid in any marketing book.

I think the M2 will have a 335-350hp N55 engine, kind of like the 1M versus 135i.
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      02-15-2013, 12:28 PM   #46
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BMW doesn't offer DCT for AG cars anymore (current Z4 E89 and 1 Series E82 are last of their kind). Now AG car only have 8AUT, or the optional sport version, which is as good, if not better than DCT. DCT is only reserved for M cars. If you want DCT you'll have to get the M2, and not the M235i. But then you might not like the 4 banger of the M2.
The current 1er in the US has the DCT, and its a better car for it- If BMW can't find a way to let me PAY them $$ to put a DCT in my car, and I'm not impressed with the 8AUT, then I won't buy it, that simple. Have no issue with the rumored inline 4 in the M2, would welcome it honestly. They'd be building something special.

I have a real issue with moves like this , the regionalization of these "global" products. BMW: People will pay you money for being able to build the car they want. Figure it out, before someone else does.
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      02-15-2013, 02:33 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by kevinlevrone View Post
I don't think it's possible to have an M235i with 6 cylinder engine and an M2 with 4-cylinder engine. It would be stupid in any marketing book.

I think the M2 will have a 335-350hp N55 engine, kind of like the 1M versus 135i.
The I6 engine you are describing is not a BMW M engine, but a BMW AG engine. You wish a BMW AG engine in a BMW M car? Seriously? It will be another fail for me, the reason why I didn't pull the trigger on a 1M with pimped N54.

Well, M2 with 4 cylinder might be stupid in your book, but not in the BMW M engineers' book:

BMW 325i E30: 2.5l I6
BMW M3 E30: 2.3l I4

BMW 540i E34: 4.0l V8
BMW M5 E34: 3.6l I6


Well, again if you prefer ///Marketing over ///Masterpiece Engineering, you are freely entitled to your wrong opinion.

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Originally Posted by HoundForHire View Post
The current 1er in the US has the DCT, and its a better car for it- If BMW can't find a way to let me PAY them $$ to put a DCT in my car, and I'm not impressed with the 8AUT, then I won't buy it, that simple. Have no issue with the rumored inline 4 in the M2, would welcome it honestly. They'd be building something special.

I have a real issue with moves like this , the regionalization of these "global" products. BMW: People will pay you money for being able to build the car they want. Figure it out, before someone else does.
We also have DCT on current 135i E8X. But next generation won't have it. I'm not arguing which tranny is better. I'm just saying it won't. Don't blame me, blame BMW's cost reduction strategy. But it is possible the M2 will get DCT, be the engine I6 or the more likely I4.
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      02-15-2013, 03:39 PM   #48
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...

Well, M2 with 4 cylinder might be stupid in your book, but not in the BMW M engineers' book:

[b]BMW 325i E30: 2.5l I6
BMW M3 E30: 2.3l I4.
...
.
that example is often used but it's never mentioned that the displacement difference is <10%. if the m2 gets a 4cyl., i wonder if it will have in excess of 2.0ltr., say 2.2-2.4ltr.?
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      02-15-2013, 04:10 PM   #49
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that example is often used but it's never mentioned that the displacement difference is <10%. if the m2 gets a 4cyl., i wonder if it will have in excess of 2.0ltr., say 2.2-2.4ltr.?
Yes, but those engines were NA. Now they are FI, so a larger difference in displacement plays no much role, except for throttle response, but that is no more an issue according to most; "turbolag is a thing of the past".

The I4 is to be a 2.2l I4, not based on N20.
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      02-16-2013, 08:11 AM   #50
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that example is often used but it's never mentioned that the displacement difference is &lt;10%. if the m2 gets a 4cyl., i wonder if it will have in excess of 2.0ltr., say 2.2-2.4ltr.?
Yes, but those engines were NA. Now they are FI, so a larger difference in displacement plays no much role, except for throttle response, but that is no more an issue according to most; "turbolag is a thing of the past".

The I4 is to be a 2.2l I4, not based on N20.
Lighter with more power. Hmmmmm. I'll take that!
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My thoughts on M5/6 vs M3/4...i wonder if tuned panamera turbo S owners are laughing at gt3 owners because they have "no chance in a race"
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      02-18-2013, 08:44 AM   #51
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Yes, but those engines were NA. Now they are FI, so a larger difference in displacement plays no much role, except for throttle response, but that is no more an issue according to most; "turbolag is a thing of the past".

The I4 is to be a 2.2l I4, not based on N20.
well, 2.2l could get the job done:at 150hp/ltr.>>>330hp and about the same torque figure with curb weight of approximately 3100lbs. a nice proposition indeed and would be an interesting contrast to the m235; can't wait for that debate!!. by the way, you appear certain about that 2.2l! are you sure of it's existence/development and that it's headed for the m2?

Last edited by hector; 02-18-2013 at 09:44 AM.
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      02-18-2013, 09:48 AM   #52
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The I4 is to be a 2.2l I4, not based on N20.

care to extrapolate that to a 3.3ltr. inline 6 for the m3? .
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      02-18-2013, 11:37 AM   #53
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I'll start by some data (but I can't guarantee 100 % accuracy):

S54: 217 kg
S65: 202 kg
S85: 240 kg
N64: 228 kg
N54: 195 kg
N52: 161 kg
N20: 138 kg


Now we are in a FI era. Engine capacity is no more that important. From an engineers/performance perspective an engine making same power/torque but being lighter is a better choice. As the 3.0 I6 vs. 3.3l V6 debate for the M3, the same debate appears for the M2, between a 3.0l I6 vs. 2.2l I4. A 3.3l I6 is unlikely to come, it would cost too much. I personally don't believe in the "420 PS" figure of the up-coming M3, unless it is a slightly different version of the engine found in the new Alpina B3. M2 is expected to get +360 PS.
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