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      10-03-2012, 07:45 PM   #67
Frosty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bunker View Post
"for the customer that likes Coupe looks and performance but needs that extra practicality but finds the current 3er out of range or too large for their needs."

yep - spot on there. this has a home in my garage.

btw - anyone notice the 3er GT in Scott's sig? anyone else hate it as much as me?
...indeed the 3erGT is not a looker... or I should say a looker in the way a 5erGT or an Aztek is a looker...
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      10-03-2012, 09:08 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam
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Originally Posted by bimmerjph View Post
Moving on...... keep the weight low, have an I6 option, have a manual option, and work on the steering some more and it will be an epic car.
And please bring back the limited slip differential, at least as an option.
Please god do this. BMW's whole line-up needs this badly.
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      10-03-2012, 10:52 PM   #69
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Someday there will be 2.5 series n v ll hv M2.5
Historically coupe came from French which means to cut down n was used for 2 door cars. Why the he'll r they calling 4-door a gran coupe. It's freaking 4 door Sedan....

Test drove a new 3-series...loved everythin about it except the shaking light steering. Pretty soon BMW ll be like Mercedes bought by old ppl. By old ppl I mean old by mind(psychologically). I hope the real 3 (or 4) series coupe/'vert ll ve a good steering.
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      10-04-2012, 01:13 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AusF20 View Post
Originally Posted by research

BMW "premium feel" in small segment usually means high price, BMW badge and often weird styling.

Audi does "premium feel" much better in small cars segment. It's interiors quality is superb through the range (look at A1) and while they also charge quite a bit, at least you get almost A8 quality cabin in a small city car. Unfortunately when it comes to 1 series the cabin materials are certainly not 7 or even 5 series good. It's just "premium" price.

I would agree with you, if you were referring to the old models
It is obvious you have not sat in a F20 / F21.
It is now 5 series (5 star) interior quality finish and feel.

I think BMW has finally woken up to the fact that they had to lift their game or get left behind.

My F20 125i M Sport is a hands down winner
I haven't been in an F20, but the F10 and F30's interiors do not match the feeling of workmanship, materials quality, or good design that Audi offers. BMW interiors are fine, but that's all they are (with expensive, rare exceptions). Audi interiors are consistently great.
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      10-04-2012, 01:24 AM   #71
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I think Audi was a lot better on interior feel back when the E90 was the current 3 series, but BMW has equaled Audi or maybe passed them in this area with the F20/F30.
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      10-04-2012, 02:20 AM   #72
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2 series and 4 series (all models) will have a great interior for sure and maybe B&O sound system!
6 series has a better interior than CL/CLS or A7
All new BMW models need the M Sport upgrade for an aggressive exterior look! This might be a very good move from BMW marketing because its german rivals seem to don't need so much this kind of option...
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      10-04-2012, 03:32 AM   #73
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Mcoupe
Yes, Audi interiors are consistently great quality but are now looking slightly dated in
comparison to the BMW and Mercs coming out.

I agree with you that BMW lost the plot or went with mediocrity with their previous model interiors.

Personally I think that the current 1er and 3er BMWs have got a higher quality and much better feel about them than the current Audi eqiv.

Long live the rivalry between the big three Germans
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      10-04-2012, 04:56 AM   #74
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So, this 2 series Gran Coupe should look like this Audi A2 sedan, only a little bit more stylish and with rear wheel drive.
It sounds nice; however Mercedes is ready with the CLA, Audi is planning the debut of A3 sedan in 2013 and BMW? Not even a test mule was seen.
Attached Images
  

Last edited by Antares; 10-04-2012 at 09:47 AM. Reason: spelling
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      10-04-2012, 12:53 PM   #75
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The F20/F21 does have some of the styling clues from the 2000 CS.
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      10-04-2012, 01:21 PM   #76
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edit:
Personally, I would pay a premium if the new M2 look similiar to the DNA in this M2 hommage...
[/quote]


I DARE BMW to make this car instead currently one series with those bug lights.
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      10-04-2012, 01:41 PM   #77
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Formula M
I would buy the 2 series 4 door sedan (Gran Coupe). You know, we here in Europe are not that fond of cars like Ford F truck and generally prefer more compact cars.
I think that the "leaks" in this thread here are a jealousy answer to Mercedes A; more than 50.000 orders even before the car got into dealerships. BMW just learned what means "ugly 1 series".
A 2015 car? a little to far off. BMW should put this 2series on the road in 2014.

It's to hope that the price is going to be positioned well bellow the 3series, considering some worrying rumors about the marketing of "Gran Coupe" sedans.

Besides, making the new 1 series FWD, and having a prolonged 1 series RWD (new 2 series) is the result of patching Mini profits with BMW brand.

Last edited by Antares; 10-04-2012 at 01:57 PM.
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      10-04-2012, 01:50 PM   #78
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November 2013
2 Series Coupe (F22) Start of Production

January 2014
BMW 1-Series / 2-Series Convertible (F23)
Official Internet Reveal
BMW 1-Series / 2-Series Coupe (F22)
Official Internet Reveal


taken from http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/
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      10-04-2012, 01:59 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
November 2013
2 Series Coupe (F22) Start of Production

January 2014
BMW 1-Series / 2-Series Convertible (F23)
Official Internet Reveal
BMW 1-Series / 2-Series Coupe (F22)
Official Internet Reveal


taken from http://www.bimmerpost.com/future-bmw/
If this is going to hold and they drastically fix the horrid 1 series looks, they'll get an avalanche of customers.
On the other hand, it would be really painful if they repeat the 1series fiasco and get tared versus Audi A3 sedan and Mercedes CLA (I wonder if the designer of the current 1series got at least fired).
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      10-04-2012, 02:34 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
I have heard a rumor that BMW have gone back to drawing board with the 2 series design
Is this true? Is this why the delay? Solo1 ???
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      10-04-2012, 02:56 PM   #81
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What nonsense I have read on this thread.

Nico Huet the designer of the F20 is not getting fired because the car has exceeded BMW's expectations and is a success and now we are experiencing huge demand for the new M135i. Sales of the F20 are still strong especially in light of new competition and the arrival of the F21.

The 2er is not back to the drawing board as the car has nothing to do with the 1er in the first place. It will be familiar but executed differently.

The 2er Gran Coupe is considered because of demand for small sedans , BMW customers wanted RWD and that is what they will be given.

We might be coming late to the market but the 6er Gran Coupe shows that when we do we make a lot of noise.

By bringing the Gran Coupe 2er to the market it shows that we still believe in tradition, the philosophy of what such a BMW small sedan should be and how it is implanted in its DNA.
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      10-04-2012, 03:47 PM   #82
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Scott 26: The 2er is not back to the drawing board as the car has nothing to do with the 1er in the first place. It will be familiar but executed differently.

Hope!
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      10-04-2012, 05:27 PM   #83
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The problem the 3er has, is its predecessors, they failed to capture the BMW spirit and many people went over to Merc (myself included [twice]). The new 3er is getting market share back.
When the M sport versions arrive on the scene I am sure you will see a shift to BMW again. I know several people who have traded their C200 in on a 3er lately.

The other issue that BMW has is its extras and options.
Many items that are standard in a Merc (eg: cruise, auto lights/wipers, DAB) are options with heafty prices on a BMW.
So when someone here compares the price of an optioned BMW with that of the Merc with that big 3 pointed star (look at me) the 3er is 8 grand more. When business people are looking at lease payments the Merc will win. The 3er is the better car but it is not going to get the buyer. The same will apply to the 1er / A class
BMW needs to include the items regarded as standard by all the others and keep their prices competitve.

In regard to the 1er's lights look I think BMW just need to have Xennons as standard.

I see noone is going on about that rediculously oversized grill on the new A class.
It looks like a cheap Chinese copy of a CLS front stuck onto a small body.
The reason the A class will appeal to many first time Merc buyers is the big 3 pointed star on the front. ('Look everyone'- it is a Mercedes). If it had a traditional merc grill with a small emblem above it, do you think it would be as popular - Great marketing by Merc

Give me the 1er with its xennon lights anyday.
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      10-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #84
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Electric steering on the f 30 328i base is a deal breaker for myself and a couple of people that would have bought one. In fact a friend bought a 2013 coupe just to get the hydraulic steering. Listening BMW?
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      10-04-2012, 11:58 PM   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWDAD View Post
Electric steering on the f 30 328i base is a deal breaker for myself and a couple of people that would have bought one. In fact a friend bought a 2013 coupe just to get the hydraulic steering. Listening BMW?
The Mini has electric steering, and is known to have one of the best steering feels in its class. The Toyota GT86 is also praised for the steering, which is also electric.

My F20 has the basic (electric) steering, and I am very pleased with it. I take the car to track days, and I need to feel how much grip there is available. The steering is also rather quick when I need to correct slides.
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      10-05-2012, 01:59 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ovekvam View Post
And please bring back the limited slip differential, at least as an option.
Seriously, BMW, what's wrong with you!? Make some extra money off of enthusiasts who care about these things, and save cost on the cars made for the rest. It's win-win.
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      10-05-2012, 04:30 AM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
What nonsense I have read on this thread.

Nico Huet, the designer of the F20, is not getting fired, because the car has exceeded BMW's expectations and is a success.

The 2er is not back to the drawing board as the car has nothing to do with the 1er in the first place. It will be familiar but executed differently.
We might be coming late to the market but the 6er Gran Coupe shows that when we do we make a lot of noise.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
Scott is correct. F20 is doing quite well.
F20 is a success? did BMW hire Jürgen Schrempp for internal motivation courses?


Mercedes sold more than 50.000 new A class vehicles even before the Paris Motor Show.
After the Show, more than 60.000 visitors stormed dealerships all across France. (considering that the french auto market is in free fall...this could be named success)
Not everything is in the sales(many will not buy, however they'll want it and the brand and car perception and desirability are going to skyrocket).

Let me think; BMW has a technologically superior car in a key European market for this type of cars, premium rear wheel drive, superb engines, automatic transmission that can rival a Rolls and? the introduction of F20 was a prime event for those in BMW marketing department (more or less)
What competition did BMW face? OLD VW Golf, and OLD Audi A3.
So, BMW F20 WAS (past term) doing quite well.

Mercedes was against a new BMW F20, a just presented new generation of VW Golf, new Audi A3, new Audi A3 sportback, new Toyota Auris, Volvo V40.
Mercedes is offering a mass market "Golf" FWD car with a Mercedes badge.

BMW F20, technically by far the most advanced compact, got hit my mass market compacts ONLY because of the design.
The designer team is not getting fired, no, no...
The workers will get fired, if the production lowers itself (a). Some (design) visionaries will proclaim success at the same time... Well, it's true that art is difficult and not for everyone to understand,...

(a) (European market is heading towards a collapse next year; today the news just got out, that VW is reducing production of cars bigger than Golf because companies are reducing orders; I think that 70% of BMWs are sold to companies?)

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
About the 2er; familiar to the 1er?
More shoulder room than the 1er, a larger car is needed. And a new dashboard and central console, since the current one is far from premium.

The new 2er is crucial for BMW, to mend things in the compact segment. The only problem being, that is has to go on sale in early 2014.
BMW might get hit very hard on the European market without a 2er sedan.
The second car important for the European market is going to be that BMW 1 Van.
Two cars, each with a mission.


I almost forgot. My friend has the new 7er (bought not leased) and was looking at that 6er Gran coupe. Conclusion? Would buy but I prefer the 7er at this price point. I fully share his opinion; by the way, we are both 30+ years old.
Yes, BMW made lots of noise. When the noise placates, it's to hope that grave silence it not going to reign (aka Maybach).


The picture below is taken from the German Auto-Motor und Sport magazine (article: Designer cars with limited usability).
Attached Images
 

Last edited by Antares; 10-05-2012 at 08:27 AM. Reason: adding content
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      10-05-2012, 08:22 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol01 View Post
M sport version of F30 has been out for months. main problem for F30 is price and the fact that others have caught up with it
Not all markets are affected by the US response of the F30.
The car is a success in several markets and will continue to be successful now that the F31 has got off to a great start with a few thousand customers taking delivery of the car immiently.
The 3er Li in China has also got off to a great start.

If you are referring that the C-Klasse and A4 are on the level of the F30? then you are mistaken.
There is a considerable gap between the C-Klasse and even longer one between the Audi A4.
There is even an interview with somebody from Mercedes-Benz stating that they had to start again on several key areas of development because the 3er F30 had changed the rules for the segment.
The 3er is still the benchmark for the segment.
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