[wjones14]

     Featured on BIMMERPOST.com

http://www.cheatsheet.com/automobile...eports.html/8/

Category / Winner:

Sporty Car: BMW 2 Series
Luxury Midsize/Large: Lexus ES
Luxury Compact: Lexus CT200h
Large Car: Toyota Avalon
Midsize Car: Toyota Camry
Compact Car: Subaru Impreza
Subcompact: Toyota Prius C

[bimmerfile]

The purists will point to this as just more evidence that BMW doesn't build them like the good old days.

[kindofblue]

Cool. Not only did I buy a great driving rag top but it'll be reliable to boot.

[Questofthetune]

That site killed my phone.

[Kolyan2k]

It's mostly BS. Usually all cars are based on 3 years of data, with BMW they only used 1 year

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

It's mostly BS. Usually all cars are based on 3 years of data, with BMW they only used 1 year

Different sources have different methodologies, most quite sound, but measuring different aspects. JDPower has the two most well known surveys, the IQS (Initial Quality Study) at three months in service, and the VDS (Vehicle Dependability Study at three years. Consumer Reports does an annual survey of existing owners among their subscribers. Based on reports of the 2015MY owners (they report insufficient sample size for 2014MY), the 2 Series was 85% above average for reporting problems, compared to other vehicles. That is a valid measure on a sufficient sample, but you may feel that it is of limited value to draw any significant conclusions about an ownership experience after one year. However, the vast majority of vehicles in the same time period provided their owners with a more trouble-prone experience. Interestingly, among those which did measurably worse was the 4 Series.

[siwo]

Wasn't expecting the bmw2 to be as reliable as a Toyota-Lexus car but I'll take it!

[RoundelM3]

The problem with surveys is the accuracy of the reviews that are filled out and returned to the surveying company. You have to figure there are people who, for whatever reason, aren't accurately answering the questions. There are a lot of nitpickers and a lot of clueless respondents. Personally, I could care less about what some magazine or other organization has to say about a car - I'd rather judge for myself and do my own research.

[doccyber]

Another "win" for the 2 series. :-)

[MikeT]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The problem with surveys is the accuracy of the reviews that are filled out and returned to the surveying company. You have to figure there are people who, for whatever reason, aren't accurately answering the questions. There are a lot of nitpickers and a lot of clueless respondents. Personally, I could care less about what some magazine or other organization has to say about a car - I'd rather judge for myself and do my own research.

Well, these surveys ain't gospel but they do have some utility. If multiple studies put, say, Fiat at or near the bottom in reliability and quality, is there not some indication that Fiat has problems? Where there's smoke, there's fire. Do you completely ignore all that? I guess some folks DO ignore all that, and that's why Fiat is still selling a lot of cars, but is it the wisest approach?

[DF]

Originally Posted by MikeT

Well, these surveys ain't gospel but they do have some utility. If multiple studies put, say, Fiat at or near the bottom in reliability and quality, is there not some indication that Fiat has problems? Where there's smoke, there's fire. Do you completely ignore all that? I guess some folks DO ignore all that, and that's why Fiat is still selling a lot of cars, but is it the wisest approach?

My coworker has a 500. Let's say it lives up to the title "fix it again Tony"

[raleedy]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The problem with surveys is the accuracy of the reviews that are filled out and returned to the surveying company. You have to figure there are people who, for whatever reason, aren't accurately answering the questions. There are a lot of nitpickers and a lot of clueless respondents. Personally, I could care less about what some magazine or other organization has to say about a car - I'd rather judge for myself and do my own research.

When you get your own poll responses tabulated, I hope you'll share them here.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by roundel335

The problem with surveys is the accuracy of the reviews that are filled out and returned to the surveying company. You have to figure there are people who, for whatever reason, aren't accurately answering the questions. There are a lot of nitpickers and a lot of clueless respondents. Personally, I could care less about what some magazine or other organization has to say about a car - I'd rather judge for myself and do my own research.

I get that many folks inherently distrust anything "institutional", but these companies actually have quite rigorous methodologies; they have to, as their credibility and revenue stream depend on being as accurate as dealing with humans allows. They, as do the research companies we hire, have algorithms for cleaning data, such as eliminating straight-lining responses and inserting quality check questions. As to being nitpickers vs. clueless, that is the value of large sample data...these biases/tendencies wash out over large sample sizes, which does not happen with very small samples from casual personal contacts.

I am also interested to know how you do your own research without falling into the trap of anecdotal data.

Also, if you have zero faith in what an organization has to say, isn't that you could NOT care less? How much do you still care if you could care less?

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

.................................................. ................................................ How much do you still care if you could care less?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by bimmerfile

Brilliant graphic....may I steal it, please?

[pz619]

I for one actually like consumer reports. Honestly I think they are most objective car testing group out there. While they aren't the final say in my car purchases, I will often look at ratings especially projected reliability if I'm thinking of keeping a car long term.

[Viffermike]

If you're skeptical of statistical data, it's only because you're likely not educated about both reading that data properly and applying that data to other considerations -- what you learn by reading posts on a forum, for instance. Why? Because a canvassing of a forum is about as nonobjective a measure as you can gather up.

Fact is, well-gathered statistical data is damn sure more reliable (pun intended) an indicator than any 'sense' or 'research' you're going to gather on a forum

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by pz619

I for one actually like consumer reports. Honestly I think they are most objective car testing group out there.

I couldn't disagree more, because of one word: 'testing'.

- "I think they are the most objective car testing group out there": Patently false. There is years upon years of evidence that demonstrates base-less bias built into its testing and reviewing. I won't re-hash it here. Research it.

- "I think they are the most objective vehicle statistical analysis group out there": Likely true, or at least among them -- and also Exhibit A in its faulty testing reviewing methodology because its conclusions often contradict its own data.

What CR is strong with is its data gathering. What it is not strong with is its reviewing, which is frequently biased -- and not just with automobiles.

[Dylan86]

Cool find. So far, this car has been rock solid just like our GTI. Gotta love German autos

[wtfbrah]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I couldn't disagree more, because of one word: 'testing'.

- "I think they are the most objective car testing group out there": Patently false. There is years upon years of evidence that demonstrates base-less bias built into its testing and reviewing. I won't re-hash it here. Research it.

- "I think they are the most objective vehicle statistical analysis group out there": Likely true, or at least among them -- and also Exhibit A in its faulty testing reviewing methodology because its conclusions often contradict its own data.

What CR is strong with is its data gathering. What it is not strong with is its reviewing, which is frequently biased -- and not just with automobiles.

Did my degree in statistics. This guy gets it!

Good data =/= good conclusions

[XutvJet]

Is this actually based on reliability data compiled or simply CR's review of the 2 Series a couple of years ago when they had no data and somehow deduced that the 2 series would likely be reliable?

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

I couldn't disagree more, because of one word: 'testing'.

- "I think they are the most objective car testing group out there": Patently false. There is years upon years of evidence that demonstrates base-less bias built into its testing and reviewing. I won't re-hash it here. Research it.

- "I think they are the most objective vehicle statistical analysis group out there": Likely true, or at least among them -- and also Exhibit A in its faulty testing reviewing methodology because its conclusions often contradict its own data.

What CR is strong with is its data gathering. What it is not strong with is its reviewing, which is frequently biased -- and not just with automobiles.

Agree as well. My earlier comments were purely about their large sample owner/subscriber survey (recognizing even the sample bias that creates versus the gen pop). As road test reviewers, they are no further along than any car magazine and clearly have a "point of view". You wouldn't want to get between CR and owners of their beloved Jeep Wranglers, for example!