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      06-27-2015, 09:03 PM   #1
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Test Drove a Cayman S...

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And a 991 911 S, and a Boxster S, and a 1M - yes, all in the same day.

The Cayman S, for me, was miles ahead of all of them. I have never experienced the overall feeling that I got from this car today. All the others I tried were good in their own rights, but nothing felt AS good as the Cayman. It was simply awesome. The 911 felt much larger in comparison, and not as responsive. The Boxster was good fun, but didn't feel as solid. And the 1M was definitely fun and I love the N54, but it was more in a "I really am tall enough to ride this roller coaster, I swear!" way...this Porsche dealer also had an M4, but I have driven that 3 times now, so I didn't even bother.

The M2, for me now anyway, has become a value proposition only. In other words, I will only consider it if I cannot swing a Cayman S price tag, which is admittedly much higher. But I think I understand why now - I have a much better idea of where the brand smugness originates from - it is much lighter than my 235 (or the 1M I drove today - the Cayman really doesn't have body roll at all), it has a superior engine position, the suspension was very responsive and firm, and the brakes...my god were the standard brakes good, and the instantaneous throttle response was very refreshing.

I have been even more annoyed with my 235 since getting my new Ducati - but the Cayman felt much more analogous to the bike when I test drove it (twice) today. It felt like it truly did whatever I wanted it to do - the grip was just phenomenal, the steering was nicely weighted and precise, and it felt fast. Very fast.

As I left, this was my main thought - BMWs are nice, but a Porsche is special.

I am sold. The only way I don't get one is if I can't make the finances work, which I know will be a challenge. It is definitely an expensive car. I am going to do my best to procure the necessary funds, and if it takes me a while to do so, so be it.
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      06-27-2015, 09:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
And a 991 911 S, and a Boxster S, and a 1M - yes, all in the same day.

The Cayman S, for me, was miles ahead of all of them. I have never experienced the overall feeling that I got from this car today. All the others I tried were good in their own rights, but nothing felt AS good as the Cayman. It was simply awesome. The 911 felt much larger in comparison, and not as responsive. The Boxster was good fun, but didn't feel as solid. And the 1M was definitely fun and I love the N54, but it was more in a "I really am tall enough to ride this roller coaster, I swear!" way...this Porsche dealer also had an M4, but I have driven that 3 times now, so I didn't even bother.

The M2, for me now anyway, has become a value proposition only. In other words, I will only consider it if I cannot swing a Cayman S price tag, which is admittedly much higher. But I think I understand why now - I have a much better idea of where the brand smugness originates from - it is much lighter than my 235 (or the 1M I drove today - the Cayman really doesn't have body roll at all), it has a superior engine position, the suspension was very responsive and firm, and the brakes...my god were the standard brakes good, and the instantaneous throttle response was very refreshing.

I have been even more annoyed with my 235 since getting my new Ducati - but the Cayman felt much more analogous to the bike when I test drove it (twice) today. It felt like it truly did whatever I wanted it to do - the grip was just phenomenal, the steering was nicely weighted and precise, and it felt fast. Very fast.

As I left, this was my main thought - BMWs are nice, but a Porsche is special.

I am sold. The only way I don't get one is if I can't make the finances work, which I know will be a challenge. It is definitely an expensive car. I am going to do my best to procure the necessary funds, and if it takes me a while to do so, so be it.
Hey David,
I agree, if it works out you won't be disappointed. Sold my 981 Cayman, had an allocation for a Cayman GT4 but in the end I passed.
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      06-27-2015, 09:19 PM   #3
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Can only imagine how good the GT4 cayman is going to be
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      06-27-2015, 09:24 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by m235i View Post
Hey David,
I agree, if it works out you won't be disappointed. Sold my 981 Cayman, had an allocation for a Cayman GT4 but in the end I passed.
Then you are way ahead of me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
Can only imagine how good the GT4 cayman is going to be
One of the things that shocked me the most was how much I loved the PDK - this was my first go with one, and it felt really really good. I think that's the way I will go - which is not what I would have thought.
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      06-27-2015, 10:20 PM   #5
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I had the last gen Boxster Spyder and my GT4 should be here within 60 days. If you cannot get a GT4 you should get on the list asap for the new boxster spyder . Doesn't have the motorsport suspension but more like a Cayman S with a 3.8L and 991S brakes.

Now go drive the FRS. It will remind you of a Cayman at 1/2 the performance. I almost bought one but the new Miata maybe a better drive. The lancer Evo is another great driving car with great steering but as you realize the Cayman has the whole package due to weight balance and terrific geometry give you superior driving feel.
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      06-27-2015, 11:02 PM   #6
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I had the last gen Boxster Spyder and my GT4 should be here within 60 days. If you cannot get a GT4 you should get on the list asap for the new boxster spyder . Doesn't have the motorsport suspension but more like a Cayman S with a 3.8L and 991S brakes.

Now go drive the FRS. It will remind you of a Cayman at 1/2 the performance. I almost bought one but the new Miata maybe a better drive. The lancer Evo is another great driving car with great steering but as you realize the Cayman has the whole package due to weight balance and terrific geometry give you superior driving feel.
I had driven the Cayman S a few times, but not the 981 - it had been a while. And while I remember the older version being good, this was just insane. I really can't imagine a drive being boring in that thing. It was that good.

I have driven the FRS - my buddy has one - definitely a fun little car and another very good value proposition in its own right.

I just went back to the dealer to stare at the one I drove today - white with black wheels.
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      06-27-2015, 11:11 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
I had driven the Cayman S a few times, but not the 981 - it had been a while. And while I remember the older version being good, this was just insane. I really can't imagine a drive being boring in that thing. It was that good.

I have driven the FRS - my buddy has one - definitely a fun little car and another very good value proposition in its own right.

I just went back to the dealer to stare at the one I drove today - white with black wheels.
if you can live with the loudness of the engine as a daily driver then you know what they say..... "there is no substitute"
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      06-28-2015, 12:36 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
And a 991 911 S, and a Boxster S, and a 1M - yes, all in the same day.

The Cayman S, for me, was miles ahead of all of them. I have never experienced the overall feeling that I got from this car today. All the others I tried were good in their own rights, but nothing felt AS good as the Cayman. It was simply awesome. The 911 felt much larger in comparison, and not as responsive. The Boxster was good fun, but didn't feel as solid. And the 1M was definitely fun and I love the N54, but it was more in a "I really am tall enough to ride this roller coaster, I swear!" way...this Porsche dealer also had an M4, but I have driven that 3 times now, so I didn't even bother.

The M2, for me now anyway, has become a value proposition only. In other words, I will only consider it if I cannot swing a Cayman S price tag, which is admittedly much higher. But I think I understand why now - I have a much better idea of where the brand smugness originates from - it is much lighter than my 235 (or the 1M I drove today - the Cayman really doesn't have body roll at all), it has a superior engine position, the suspension was very responsive and firm, and the brakes...my god were the standard brakes good, and the instantaneous throttle response was very refreshing.

I have been even more annoyed with my 235 since getting my new Ducati - but the Cayman felt much more analogous to the bike when I test drove it (twice) today. It felt like it truly did whatever I wanted it to do - the grip was just phenomenal, the steering was nicely weighted and precise, and it felt fast. Very fast.

As I left, this was my main thought - BMWs are nice, but a Porsche is special.

I am sold. The only way I don't get one is if I can't make the finances work, which I know will be a challenge. It is definitely an expensive car. I am going to do my best to procure the necessary funds, and if it takes me a while to do so, so be it.
Love the Cayman also. Just too expensive, but if it was less, it's a winner. Nothing like NA motors too. I still think the 1M is a blast and rougher around the edges but it's hard to beat NA motors. My current ZHP is way down on power from the 1M or M235i but when you are in the power band, it is instantaneous response. I also love the look of the 2014 + Cayman over the earlier models. The downside is I have two kids and that complicates my life which is why the 1M is the next best thing for me. The M2 is also a value proposition for me. I really want to take my son for ED and see Europe and the Euro cup next June as we are big soccer fans. Plus having 4 years or warranty and service during the loan period is hard to pass up especially when the price is the same for a used 1M. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Also, a one thing to keep in mind with the 1M is that the stripper 1Ms are lighter and have a better, lower seating position. Most people only come across power seat models which are loaded, heavier and the seats sit higher which is not as comfortable for me as the stripper 1M.

Best wishes.
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      06-28-2015, 12:43 AM   #9
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I've been having very similiar thoughts of switching to a 981(likely the turbo 4 next year).

An M2 and a base cayman will be essentially the same price. Despite the plethora of options, all you really need in a cayman is the sport suspension, so 53-55k. Same price bracket as the M2.

The downside is the euro delivery. Porsche bakes in a 3k charge at the dealer that you'll ultimately be paying, and you need to put up a 19% VAT until the car is back in the states.

M2 will be a more "special" vehicle and will turn more heads than a base cayman, but it won't touch the cayman in handling or balance.
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      06-28-2015, 07:10 AM   #10
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This is a great thread, I'm glad you got to experience all those cars. The Cayman S/GTS is on my radar as well.

The M2 needs to come in performance wise in-between the Cayman S and GTS (based on M235 laptimes, this shouldn't be too hard to do).

Even at that, it is entirely a value proposition... I am expecting about a $15 -20K difference given same relative performance; I think a "base" M2 will be a better drive than a base Cayman.

I am glad you liked the PDK as well... it is probably one of the best gearboxes out there. Careful in P-car land though.. to me their cars are keepers, while Bimmers are flippers.

So many choices, so little garage space.
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      06-28-2015, 09:08 AM   #11
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Thanks OP. I've been thinking about test driving one...
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      06-28-2015, 09:22 AM   #12
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Well, what can I say.........






I love them both............
      06-28-2015, 09:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
Careful in P-car land though.. to me their cars are keepers, while Bimmers are flippers.
Interesting as just in the last 6 days we took in two Porsche 991's and one 987 in on trade for shiny new BMWs.

I am also a huge Porsche fan and have owned many in my years. They are rewarding to drive in a way that no one has been able to duplicate. That being said, there is no perfect happiness and all isn't unicorns and rainbows in P-land. Hence people get tired of them and flip them just like any other car.
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      06-28-2015, 11:16 AM   #14
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Nice thread. I've been avoiding a test drive as it might be the end of ///M anything for me. The wife has been talking about a P car for a while and also wants to test drive Audi and Mercedes.
I guess I'll have to go and report back. We have a "German" row of car dealers 10 min away from our house. Porsche-Audi-Mercedes and BMW is on the other side of town.
The plan is to keep the Gran Turismo so a fun weekend racket makes perfect sense. We are DINKS too so why the hell am I still typing and not out test driving, while BMW is playing cute hiding the M2??
Excuse me for few minutes
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      06-28-2015, 12:27 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
if you can live with the loudness of the engine as a daily driver then you know what they say..... "there is no substitute"
It's interesting, and maybe this is because I was so excited by the overall drive and impression of the car, but I didn't notice the engine noise in the way I think you're meaning. I remember distinctly back in 2007, when my pops and I were looking at the Cayman S and Z4MC, that there was almost a buzzing sound right in your ear with the Cayman. The Z4MC also had a lot more options for the same money, and that's what my dad ended up going with.

Didn't get that impression at all this time - I am wondering if that's something that was actively changed, or if I am just not as bothered by it now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nachob View Post
Love the Cayman also. Just too expensive, but if it was less, it's a winner. Nothing like NA motors too. I still think the 1M is a blast and rougher around the edges but it's hard to beat NA motors. My current ZHP is way down on power from the 1M or M235i but when you are in the power band, it is instantaneous response. I also love the look of the 2014 + Cayman over the earlier models. The downside is I have two kids and that complicates my life which is why the 1M is the next best thing for me. The M2 is also a value proposition for me. I really want to take my son for ED and see Europe and the Euro cup next June as we are big soccer fans. Plus having 4 years or warranty and service during the loan period is hard to pass up especially when the price is the same for a used 1M. Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts. Also, a one thing to keep in mind with the 1M is that the stripper 1Ms are lighter and have a better, lower seating position. Most people only come across power seat models which are loaded, heavier and the seats sit higher which is not as comfortable for me as the stripper 1M.

Best wishes.
Trust me, I still love the 1M, but I couldn't help the feeling that it was a bit long in the tooth if that makes sense. Still looks really good, but the interior was relatively Spartan and it just didn't get the juices going like it once did. But that's the nice thing about having choices, right?

As for your particular situation, it totally makes sense - I have no kids, a small woman, and no dog - so everything fits in the Cayman.

I think for the mid 70s money, if you want a dedicated sports car, then the Cayman S or GTS is "it" - now if you need practicality, I would be leaning towards the F80, which looks great and is really tough to beat from the usability standpoint.
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      06-28-2015, 12:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buumer View Post
I've been having very similiar thoughts of switching to a 981(likely the turbo 4 next year).

An M2 and a base cayman will be essentially the same price. Despite the plethora of options, all you really need in a cayman is the sport suspension, so 53-55k. Same price bracket as the M2.

The downside is the euro delivery. Porsche bakes in a 3k charge at the dealer that you'll ultimately be paying, and you need to put up a 19% VAT until the car is back in the states.

M2 will be a more "special" vehicle and will turn more heads than a base cayman, but it won't touch the cayman in handling or balance.
I think all I would need would be the PASM, PDK, ventilated seats (WOW were those awesome), and one of the 19' wheel options. I think that keeps me below 75, which is where most of the F80s I was speccing out were ending up. Perhaps that's just how much I need to spend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B-1Pilot View Post
This is a great thread, I'm glad you got to experience all those cars. The Cayman S/GTS is on my radar as well.

The M2 needs to come in performance wise in-between the Cayman S and GTS (based on M235 laptimes, this shouldn't be too hard to do).

Even at that, it is entirely a value proposition... I am expecting about a $15 -20K difference given same relative performance; I think a "base" M2 will be a better drive than a base Cayman.

I am glad you liked the PDK as well... it is probably one of the best gearboxes out there. Careful in P-car land though.. to me their cars are keepers, while Bimmers are flippers.

So many choices, so little garage space.
I think you're right - this might have been sales guy bullshit, but he was talking about how BMW artificially inflates their residuals because they have a lot of banking power - which leads to low monthly lease payments and happy customers...except at the end of the lease, your car isn't worth the predetermined price that was calculated at the lease inception, and you have no interest in buying it...so what do you do? Lease another one - and you're in a perpetual cycle of car "flipping" as you state below.

I think you are absolutely right. If I end up going this route, I am going to put a nice chunk of change down on it and finance the rest over 5 years. If I get a raise or a nice bonus in there somewhere, then I will work on paying it off more quickly. Either way, this is the first car I have considered purchasing in a long time - I think that says something...

I was watching videos last night and there's one from EVO I think that compared the base Cayman to the 235 - and the base Cayman beat it on the track, despite being down 60 NHP and 100 torques. There is just something magical about how that car handles - is it a screamer? No - you aren't going to be winning from light to light in it, but you won't in the M2 either.

I think BMW has it's respective work cut out for it on the M2. It is going to need to be really really good - and considering that the 235 and Cayman S aren't even in the same area code, I am now more skeptical that they can do it. We shall see.
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      06-28-2015, 12:37 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bemo View Post
Nice thread. I've been avoiding a test drive as it might be the end of ///M anything for me. The wife has been talking about a P car for a while and also wants to test drive Audi and Mercedes.
I guess I'll have to go and report back. We have a "German" row of car dealers 10 min away from our house. Porsche-Audi-Mercedes and BMW is on the other side of town.
The plan is to keep the Gran Turismo so a fun weekend racket makes perfect sense. We are DINKS too so why the hell am I still typing and not out test driving, while BMW is playing cute hiding the M2??
Excuse me for few minutes
That's kind of where I am at - it is taking too long for the M2, and I just got tired of waiting. If you DO drive it, I don't think you will bother waiting either.
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      06-28-2015, 12:52 PM   #18
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Love the Cayman - no way it could be an EDD for me though..It would have to be part of a pair - maybe Cayman and a SAV...
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      06-28-2015, 12:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
It's interesting, and maybe this is because I was so excited by the overall drive and impression of the car, but I didn't notice the engine noise in the way I think you're meaning. I remember distinctly back in 2007, when my pops and I were looking at the Cayman S and Z4MC, that there was almost a buzzing sound right in your ear with the Cayman. The Z4MC also had a lot more options for the same money, and that's what my dad ended up going with.

Didn't get that impression at all this time - I am wondering if that's something that was actively changed, or if I am just not as bothered by it now.
Ah maybe they have improved it on the latest one....
I rode with a friend on his 2008 cayman s for about 2 hours on the freeway and you could barely keep a conversation... and that always stuck in my mind

I rode briefly on the new cayman s but not for an extended period so maybe you are right and the new one is not as annoying

I say GT4 though
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      06-28-2015, 01:00 PM   #20
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My reaction to this thread: what dealer gave you free reign to the inventory?! Assume you are a frequent customer

Agree on the cayman as well. I highly doubt the M2 is going to touch the Porsche. However, it only has 2 seats and I really want a DD that can pull the family.

But... Depending on the reaction to the M2, I am clearing out the garage for a potential weekend driver (Cayman).
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      06-28-2015, 02:19 PM   #21
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2007 328i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pikcachu View Post
Ah maybe they have improved it on the latest one....
I rode with a friend on his 2008 cayman s for about 2 hours on the freeway and you could barely keep a conversation... and that always stuck in my mind

I rode briefly on the new cayman s but not for an extended period so maybe you are right and the new one is not as annoying

I say GT4 though
I would love the GT4 - trust me. I am just convinced that I could not swing it financially, in addition to the fact that they're all sold out.

But in all seriousness, the sound in the cabin was great - it sounded good, but not overbearing - until mashing the throttle anyway.
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Current - 2014 F22 M235 - MT, CWP, Premium, Aluminum Hex/Black Gloss Trim.
Past BMWs: 2011 E82 135 - LBM, N55, DCT
2008 E82 135 - AW, N54, MT
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT, ZSP (traded in for 135)
2007 E92 328 - JB, N52, MT (retired by a drunk driver)
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      06-28-2015, 02:44 PM   #22
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Drives: EB M235i
Join Date: Oct 2013
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post

I was watching videos last night and there's one from EVO I think that compared the base Cayman to the 235 - and the base Cayman beat it on the track, despite being down 60 NHP and 100 torques. There is just something magical about how that car handles - is it a screamer? No - you aren't going to be winning from light to light in it, but you won't in the M2 either.
I've seen that video too. There a brief comment in there that pretty much sums up the two cars as a true sports car versus a BMW with a slightly more powerful engine.

There is also an older drive video that pits a tuned S4 against the base 981 on the twisty road, and despite all the torque in the S4 it still doesn't come close to putting as big of a smile on your face as that cayman.

Im sure there are going to be lines for the M2 at release driving up the price, which may serve as just another reason to go the Porsche route.

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