[XutvJet]

Hehe, sleep on it damn hard. I could only test drive a ZF 8AT and I was blown away by it. I had to resist and stick to plan getting a 6MT even though I could have gotten the auto for a heavy discount and $2000 less than I paid for my special order 6MT and moonroof deleted. So glad I did after having a 435 ZF 8at loaner for an entire day a while back.

[M235ForNow]

Boy is this a relevant issue for me. Decades of manuals and then a GTI VI with DSG and a GTI VII with perf pack and DSG. And currently in a 235 with auto-8. Going to be replacing with 230 and debating: manual or auto?

Still have an E92 in the family with a stick so able to compare and contrast. And here's my thinking, for what it's worth (factoring in the nerdy engineer perspective).

The big win for manuals back in the day was that autos basically sucked. Slow, indecisive shifts, too few gears, and lots of inefficiencies due to torque converter. Manuals were a total no-brainer.

But ... time have changed so, so much. Now the efficiency of the autos are better than the manuals. And the shift times are quicker. So the practical reasons of "they are quicker and more efficient" are gone.

But but ... they're not as smart as me! I can do a better job of knowing where and when. Well .... not so much. Actually, I've found that BMW's auto in normal does a pretty great job of handling the shifting during normal driving. And when I'm in the twisties and put it into sport it's plumb excellent. Chooses gears just like I would if I were in control, most of the time.

But but but but what about those other times?! Wellll, for that there's the paddle shifters or the shifter knob shifter in shift-a-gear mode. Does the shifts cleanly and quickly. Boom! I'm the one in control.

Which leaves me with one and only one reason to prefer a manual. And that would be "it's fun to be in TOTAL control and know it's ME doing it. And if I nail the heel and toe and throttle match I can say with a swell of pride - yep, I did that! Yay!"

So the question is - is that one remaining aspect worth it? Personal decision, of course. The manual means I can't have someone else drive my car if I've had too much to drink or am tired. And I have the chance of money shifting it, with all the follow-on fun. And it means I have to do the shifty-shifts even if I'm dead tired after a workout or in lousy stop and go traffic. Where it's no fun. Not really. And I know I CAN throttle match and heel and toe so it's not like I'm trying to attain that skill. It's a question of "Well, I CAN do it but do I really care TO do it?"

In my younger days I'd have said "yes". But those younger days were ones in which I had really truly solid reasons for why it is objectively better. In my not-as-young days, barring some epiphany, I'm going to opt for "nope". 8 speed auto for me. And dats dat.

[XutvJet]

What I like most about the manual are the following:

1) You can be smooth or abrupt on shifts.
2) You can skip shift.
3) You shift really slow and relaxed. An auto is always instant on the shifts.
4) Heal/toe/perfect rev match
5) Rowing the gears.
6) Always in gear coasting assuming you don't coast in neutral (dumb).


Dislikes:

1) Long clutch throw
2) A quick and sometimes inconsistent clutch take-up point.
3) A smooth, part-throttle 1-2 shift can sometimes be hard to do.
4) Somewhat long gearing.

[skinnyroots]

I'm considering the same move from my MK7 Golf to a M240i. I've made a handful of modifications to the Golf, including an ECU tune, and it's great for what it is--but lately I find myself thirsting for something more. The M240i easily qualifies as "something more".

I'm still a year or two away from the purchase (we need to settle on a house first), but it's interesting to see someone making a similar change. I plan on keeping the Golf in the family and giving it to my fiancé when the time is right--but I'll be keeping an eye on these forums until then.

Best of luck on your search, OP. For me, the only "must-have" spec is a manual gearbox, but the LSD would be great.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by skinnyroots

I'm considering the same move from my MK7 Golf to a M240i. I've made a handful of modifications to the Golf, including an ECU tune, and it's great for what it is--but lately I find myself thirsting for something more. The M240i easily qualifies as "something more".

I'm still a year or two away from the purchase (we need to settle on a house first), but it's interesting to see someone making a similar change. I plan on keeping the Golf in the family and giving it to my fiancé when the time is right--but I'll be keeping an eye on these forums until then.

Best of luck on your search, OP. For me, the only "must-have" spec is a manual gearbox, but the LSD would be great.

I'm more than happy to have made the switch. The m240i is somewhat pricey, but due to the fast depreciation, a great way to get yourself into one is to buy a corporate car that is sold as CPO elite with the 5/75 warranty.

Those can be had for ~20% off MSRP and typically have been driven for about 6 months and have 5-6k miles on them. Most of the time they run 0-1% APR on the corp cars as well. Basically like new but with longer warranty and better finance rates. Take the ~$10k you saved and spend $2500 on a m-performance LSD.

[Evanallan1]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

I'm more than happy to have made the switch. The m240i is somewhat pricey, but due to the fast depreciation, a great way to get yourself into one is to buy a corporate car that is sold as CPO elite with the 5/75 warranty.

Those can be had for ~20% off MSRP and typically have been driven for about 6 months and have 5-6k miles on them. Most of the time they run 0-1% APR on the corp cars as well. Basically like new but with longer warranty and better finance rates. Take the ~$10k you saved and spend $2500 on a m-performance LSD.

Where can I find a CPO elite corporate car? Will they be specified on a dealers website or is it something special you need to be lucky to stumble upon?

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Evanallan1

Where can I find a CPO elite corporate car? Will they be specified on a dealers website or is it something special you need to be lucky to stumble upon?

Some dealers will have an executive demo/corporate car section on their site, but not all. I find the main BMW CPO site (cpo.bmwusa.com) to be useful in this regard. Just search for models that are < 1 years old with < 10k miles. Most of the cars that are corporate/executive cars will have a Carfax that shows they were never titled, and the first Carfax entry shows they were sold at auction as a manufacturer car (I think these are the executive demos). Some show that they were titled new in New Jersey as a lease for a few months (I think these are BMW corporate leases). These cars will be advertised as CPO Elite with 0.9% financing. I believe they are also possible to lease at new 2017 residuals.

Here is an example of a $52k MSRP car with a $43k asking price. After very little negotiation, the selling price of that car should be $41-$42k:

https://www.rusnakbmw.com/used/BMW/2...f3d2d6303d.htm

[Dylan86]

For a 12mo/yr vehicle, 8spd ZF is perfect, just like a DSG box, since their character is quite similar.

For a second fun/ part time vehicle? Well, there's only one logical choice, for me (6MT)

[Evanallan1]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

Some dealers will have an executive demo/corporate car section on their site, but not all. I find the main BMW CPO site (cpo.bmwusa.com) to be useful in this regard. Just search for models that are < 1 years old with < 10k miles. Most of the cars that are corporate/executive cars will have a Carfax that shows they were never titled, and the first Carfax entry shows they were sold at auction as a manufacturer car (I think these are the executive demos). Some show that they were titled new in New Jersey as a lease for a few months (I think these are BMW corporate leases). These cars will be advertised as CPO Elite with 0.9% financing. I believe they are also possible to lease at new 2017 residuals.

Here is an example of a $52k MSRP car with a $43k asking price. After very little negotiation, the selling price of that car should be $41-$42k:

https://www.rusnakbmw.com/used/BMW/2...f3d2d6303d.htm

Thanks for all of this info... I had no idea about this!!

[JerryW235]

Originally Posted by Evanallan1

Thanks for all of this info... I had no idea about this!!

My wife and I just picked up one of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles a little over a month ago from a dealer in Atlanta. A 2016 M235i with only 1300 miles and a lot of M options and accessories on it. Never titled, leased to a BMW Finance exec. in NJ. MSRP was a bit over $58k, we got it for $45.9k, out the door, with 0% financing for 5 years. Probably could have shopped around for something less expensive, with more miles on it, but wife said "I really like this one", so who was I to argue.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by JerryW235

My wife and I just picked up one of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles a little over a month ago from a dealer in Atlanta. A 2016 M235i with only 1300 miles and a lot of M options and accessories on it. Never titled, leased to a BMW Finance exec. in NJ. MSRP was a bit over $58k, we got it for $45.9k, out the door, with 0% financing for 5 years. Probably could have shopped around for something less expensive, with more miles on it, but wife said "I really like this one", so who was I to argue.

This is all really good information. Are most of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles automatics?

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by JerryW235

My wife and I just picked up one of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles a little over a month ago from a dealer in Atlanta. A 2016 M235i with only 1300 miles and a lot of M options and accessories on it. Never titled, leased to a BMW Finance exec. in NJ. MSRP was a bit over $58k, we got it for $45.9k, out the door, with 0% financing for 5 years. Probably could have shopped around for something less expensive, with more miles on it, but wife said "I really like this one", so who was I to argue.

That's how we picked up our 2015 X1 35i a year ago. Exec lease from BMW NJ headquarters with only 2000 miles on it. $45k MSRP, sold to us for $31k with CPO Elite and 0% financing for 60 months. Can't complain either ;-)

[p912guy]

Originally Posted by JerryW235

My wife and I just picked up one of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles a little over a month ago from a dealer in Atlanta. A 2016 M235i with only 1300 miles and a lot of M options and accessories on it. Never titled, leased to a BMW Finance exec. in NJ. MSRP was a bit over $58k, we got it for $45.9k, out the door, with 0% financing for 5 years. Probably could have shopped around for something less expensive, with more miles on it, but wife said "I really like this one", so who was I to argue.

Congratulations. Sounds like you did well, that's an excellent deal.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

This is all really good information. Are most of these executive demo / CPO Elite vehicles automatics?

I think they mirror the general trend. The vast majority are automatics, but I did see a couple corporate/exec 340i that were manual as well as a couple m235i that were manuals when I was looking last year.

[JerryW235]

Originally Posted by p912guy

Congratulations. Sounds like you did well, that's an excellent deal.

Thanks, I thought it was a pretty good deal for essentially a brand new car, and the CPO Elite takes the warranty to a total of 4 years and 75,000 miles. Considering it's a 3rd car for us, a "toy" to play around with, we'll probably never get anywhere near that mileage on it. We were going to pay cash, but our sales person said why do that if it's only .9%, invest the money and make more on it. That made sense. Then the finance person added the Lo-Jack that we didn't want or need back in to the deal, and cut the interest to 0% to negate the cost of the Lo-Jack. Pretty much a no brainer at that point.

[p912guy]

Not to mention, it's probably been well cared for as an Exec car and not driven like a hooligan.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by p912guy

Not to mention, it's probably been well cared for as an Exec car and not driven like a hooligan.

I participated in such an exec company car program at another manufacturer for most of my career. I would not feel confident making such an assumption.

...although they do get good maintenance!

[JerryW235]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I participated in such an exec company car program at another manufacturer for most of my career. I would not feel confident making such an assumption.

...although they do get good maintenance!

Actually, have a friend who was an exec. with an American manufacturer, got a couple new cars every year, there were a number of convertibles left out in the rain with the top down.

[JerryW235]

Originally Posted by Sportstick

I participated in such an exec company car program at another manufacturer for most of my career. I would not feel confident making such an assumption.

...although they do get good maintenance!

And one thing I noticed when we were looking at the car, and mentioned it to the sales rep, was that the outside edges of both rear tires seemed to be worn down an awful lot for only 1300 miles .

[msej449]

I've owned a Porche Carrera 4S and a Lotus Elise 111S, both manual, and I'd say that for me, the M235i Sport Auto ZF8 represents a 'tipping point' where I'd not go back to manual. Very occasionally, a manual might be better, but for 99.5% of the time, the auto is better than me and a lot more flexible.

What I would counsel is that you get the adaptive options, and then devote some time to understanding the differences in the four modes (EcoPro, Comfort, SPort and Sport+); the traction settings; the S Shift and paddles; and the chassis/drivetrain settings. This sounds like a lot of effort, but isn't really. Then you'll fully understand how to get the best out of the Sports Auto.

I think that some of the negative feedback from those migrating from manual to auto arises from a reluctance to do this. But it's time well-spent. The Sport Auto ZF8 does a brilliant job, but you can't expect it to mind-read.

_________________________________

There are two tactics you can use in terms of the above learning strategy. The first is just to drive in full auto Comfort mode for a while and then identify where it doesn't quite suit the driving/route. Then go into another mode and see how best to use it with paddles; going into full manual gear selection; combined etc. The second is to take a day out from time to time and go into full manual mode, selecting the gears yourself all day, and see where leaving it to the auto would work better.

For me, this resulted in realising that EcoPro worked best on long French Autoroute trips to the Alps. I can exploit the 'coast' feature of EcoPro and save 12%-15% fuel on downhill sections of the journey. This represents an extra 40+ miles range, which is useful given the relatively small tank on the 2. I also use Sport and manual paddle changes actively on uphill mountain hairpin roads in the Alps, where the default changes aren't optimal. If I'm overtaking agricultural traffic on local cross-country roads, then I set the car up differently again, and so on ....

Effectively, you end up using the auto most of the time as it is, and then drop into your preferred 'manual' setup for situations where it's best suited.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by msej449

I think that some of the negative feedback from those migrating from manual to auto arises from a reluctance to do this.

And, other portion of it is not wanting to use what seems to be a mobile video game. No thumb paddles, thank you...they bore my left leg tremendously.

[Tpeterson]

Not to mention the only learning strategy is virtually instantaneous: up or downshift when it seems like the right time.That's why I ordered a MT: so I could make that decision. Must be a control freak!