[F22_Alpin_Weiss]

I took the opportunity to look at, and drive a fully loaded Camaro 2SS while my car was being serviced today.

My longtime V8 fetish has yet to be satisfied, and with the heaps on praise being dumped on the Alpha-platform Camaro, I figured today may be the day it happens.

Nope.

Despite being packed to the brim with every option imaginable, having a wonderful exhaust note with the dual-mode system, and touting a pretty livable (mag-)ride, the Camaro just didn't do it for me.

It gave me the same feeling as when I drove a CLA45: Disappointment. Huge expectations going in after reading about them, watching videos, etc., only to be left not unimpressed, but not like I HAD to jump into it that day, as was the case with the M235i.

Yes, as repeated by literally everyone on earth, the rear visibility is shit. Blind spot monitoring doesn't negate the fact that you can't see anything past the B-pillar. Interior quality (something I was letdown by in the CLA45) was typically cheap, and chintzy GM. While it had every option box ticked, and would be a huge upgrade from a technology perspective, it felt crammed, and no amount of tech or configurable interior lighting could offset the swathes of hard, shiny plastics.

Exterior looks are subjective. Could take it or leave it. And finally the driving experience: Meh. For only being a 100+ pounds heavier than the porky little F22, it felt as hefty as the 4,000lb RCF. Steering wasn't particularly communicative or satisfying. Mashing the throttle on the on-ramps was another story. Simply sublime...

However, when I picked my car up from service, started it, gripped the wheel, and surveyed the relatively simple cabin, any lingering thoughts about terrorizing the neighbors with a 6.2L V8 fizzled out. The 2er just feels solid, purposeful, and well executed. Yes, the steering lacks feedback, and it's about 2-300 pounds too heavy, but the driving experience is just... Right. When you know, you know I guess.

[PowerfulF22]

It's that massive 6.2 V8, nothing else.

BTW if you ever want a muscle car, I would suggest the mustang GT, not the GM sh*t

[SlickShift]

Thanks for the write up. I've been itching to drive the Camaro after all the magazine praise, but I have a feeling my feelings would reflect yours.

[3rdcoast228i]

I drove a fully loaded v6 model that they were offering heavy discounts on before I bought my 2. I made the very same observations as you did.

[SteveInfante]

Coming from a 2013 5.0 Mustang GT with the Track Package and Recaros I can say I do miss the V8 and the Kooks exhaust. I don't miss feeling the weight as you fling the car around. Definitely go Ford instead of GM for muscle.

[aaaaah]

FWIW the vast majority of praise currently is going to the 1LE packaged Camaros...

[CAMOETO]

As a former Camaro 2SS owner, although a 2013 gen-5 on the Zeta chassis, I can confirm many of your general observations. Also test-drove a 2016 2SS. I would differ with your assessment of the steering however. IMHO the steering in the current Camaro has more feedback than the 2. I also thought it handled very well, although the 2016 I test-drove had the magneride shocks which were set to the firmest mode on the drive mode selector.

Where the car completely fails is visibility. I had the same issue in my 2013, and it's even worse in the new one. Although you can see the road just fine, you really can't see around the car. It feels like you're sitting in a tank and can never get fully comfortable.

[USA-RET]

Certainly there is a market for the Camaro. More than a decent performance car for the money. I've always been a GM guy, with a number of Corvettes and others in my past. GM gets so many things right and at the same time stumbles with others.

I've since graduated to the European car (M240i and Mini Cooper) market now and will likely not return to GM again. While not everything is perfect w/ the euros, they do seem to pay enough attention to detail, style, engineering and performance to overshadow what shortfalls may be identified.

[Mr Carrots]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

I drove a fully loaded v6 model that they were offering heavy discounts on before I bought my 2. I made the very same observations as you did.

The V6 shouldnt even be an option on this car

The 2SS is good but it's not any faster than my JB4 m240i and has many failings. Maybe the Zl1 will make me want to trade up?

Edit, looking at the 2SS forum list of 1/4 times, 12s stock and high 11s with bolt ons, pretty much the same as my car. Although that monster V8 is probably better for real world rolling starts as it doesnt need to be break boosted

[F22_Alpin_Weiss]

Originally Posted by PowerfulF22

It's that massive 6.2 V8, nothing else.

BTW if you ever want a muscle car, I would suggest the mustang GT, not the GM sh*t

I have to admit that I'm really looking forward to seeing, and hopefully experiencing how the refreshed GT with the 10-speed auto and performance pack stacks up!

Originally Posted by SteveInfante

Coming from a 2013 5.0 Mustang GT with the Track Package and Recaros I can say I do miss the V8 and the Kooks exhaust. I don't miss feeling the weight as you fling the car around. Definitely go Ford instead of GM for muscle.

I'm not biased one way or another when it comes to the Big 3, but from what I can tell, Ford seems to be doing a lot right recently in terms of quality.

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

As a former Camaro 2SS owner, although a 2013 gen-5 on the Zeta chassis, I can confirm many of your general observations. Also test-drove a 2016 2SS. I would differ with your assessment of the steering however. IMHO the steering in the current Camaro has more feedback than the 2. I also thought it handled very well, although the 2016 I test-drove had the magneride shocks which were set to the firmest mode on the drive mode selector.

Where the car completely fails is visibility. I had the same issue in my 2013, and it's even worse in the new one. Although you can see the road just fine, you really can't see around the car. It feels like you're sitting in a tank and can never get fully comfortable.

Perhaps the route we took wasn't the optimal way to demonstrate its handling prowess? The salesperson *did* offer another extended cruise through a more engaging road after I gave my feedback.
Going back to visibility, 100%. I remember the 5th-Gen being pretty confined, but this was next-level. I really don't understand how GM's designers/engineers didn't just fail to address the fact, but made it worse! At least the high belt-line looks cool?

Originally Posted by USA-RET

Certainly there is a market for the Camaro. More than a decent performance car for the money. I've always been a GM guy, with a number of Corvettes and others in my past. GM gets so many things right and at the same time stumbles with others.

I've since graduated to the European car (M240i and Mini Cooper) market now and will likely not return to GM again. While not everything is perfect w/ the euros, they do seem to pay enough attention to detail, style, engineering and performance to overshadow what shortfalls may be identified.

I think if GM could just sweat the details, they'd be tough to argue against. It always seems like they'll accomplish something amazing, but completely neglect some other important aspect in the process. That said, I think the Stingray, and sadly deceased SS sedan are overall fantastic cars.

Couldn't agree more with your sentiment

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

The V6 shouldnt even be an option on this car

The 2SS is good but it's not any faster than my JB4 m240i and has many failings. Maybe the Zl1 will make me want to trade up?

Edit, looking at the 2SS forum list of 1/4 times, 12s stock and high 11s with bolt ons, pretty much the same as my car. Although that monster V8 is probably better for real world rolling starts as it doesnt need to be break boosted

This is a common fallacy, comparing stock and modded/tuned cars as well as cherry-picking individual 1/4 mile times from message boards. According to mags:

Camaro SS auto (depending on review): 0-60 in 3.9-4.1, 1/4 in 12.3-12.4 @ 116-117
M240i auto (only C&D has a review with numbers): 0-60 in 4.3, 1/4 in 12.7 @ 111

If you looks at best 100% stock car times from the boards, m240i (x-drive) can get the 1/4 in 12.3-12.4, while the Camaro SS auto has done it in 11.9-12.1.

To me, the m240i is a step down in terms of performance. The m240i doesn't even come with a LSD. The new Camaro SS is on the same level as M3/M4. With mods you're comparing apples to oranges, but I would give the advantage to the Camaro because it's not limited by a locked ECU and fuel issues, and has much more aftermarket options available with cams, superchargers, etc.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Quattr09

Perhaps the route we took wasn't the optimal way to demonstrate its handling prowess? The salesperson *did* offer another extended cruise through a more engaging road after I gave my feedback.
Going back to visibility, 100%. I remember the 5th-Gen being pretty confined, but this was next-level. I really don't understand how GM's designers/engineers didn't just fail to address the fact, but made it worse! At least the high belt-line looks cool?

Seems like GM did their typical thing where the big wigs prioritized the design over functionality and told the engineers to make it work.

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

This is a common fallacy, comparing stock and modded/tuned cars as well as cherry-picking individual 1/4 mile times from message boards.

You hit the nail on the head right there. In general, I see people comparing Stock to modded all the time on forums. Not just here, but on most all car forums. Often the excuse is that it's an easy and/or cheap mod. I feel it's just wrong to do that..

If you're going to compare something to a stock vehicle, do it with another stock vehicle. If you're going to compare stock to mod, why not give the mod to the Camaro? The Camaro's interior blew away the F22 because it had aftermarket 20 way adjustable seats and hand tanned leather. It even had a blower on the 6.2L V8. The thing was the most comfortable car ever and it's 0-60 was quicker than a Tesla S. Sure the rear visibility was bad, but the interior and the motor just puts the F22 to shame.

Yup, that was extreme, but see what I mean?

[Boneman]

Drove my friends new ZL1 1LE. Wow, tons of power and neck snapping torque. A car you can get in trouble with real quick.

[breadwoman]

My gf has a M235xi while I have a 2017 SS 1LE so I've got considerable seat time in both vehicles. I take turns driving both cars to work every week and have tracked the 1LE.

The aspects where M235 > 6th Gen SS is:
1) Trunk opening space (it's like a sink on the SS)
2) Way more relaxing ride (M235 is like siting on pillows compared to SS 1LE mag ride)
3) Base sound system
4) Visibility (M235 is like a fish tank compared to SS)

As you can see, if your goal is to have DD and you drive in the city/traffic a lot then M235i definitely has the upper hand, but from a performance/driving standpoint there's no comparison.

I would take the LT1 V8 over the N55 any day with it's massive low end torque and high end N/A pull (and that exhaust noise is insane).

SS 1LE handling is superb. There's tremendous amounts of grip and body control is on point, whereas M235 is way too soft and doesn't provide much confidence with its dead steering.

[F22_Alpin_Weiss]

Thanks for the perspective, breadwoman! Nice to have input from someone with a good amount of experience with both.

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by Quattr09

Thanks for the perspective, breadwoman! Nice to have input from someone with a good amount of experience with both.

Do keep in mind that the suspension/handling differences between the 1LE and the regular SS are pretty substantial. The 1LE is much firmer.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Yeah I would say give the 1LE a test before settling your opinion. From all I have read, that's basically the killer combo right there. I know its not exactly the same comparison, but it would be like the difference in a 228/230 with or without the track handling package.

All the praise I have heard about the Camaro has been overwhelmingly on cars with the 1LE package, and the lap times really reinforce that.

[Kolyan2k]

U mentioned RCF...have u driven that too? What did u think?

[pz619]

I also drove a 2SS, looking for a replacement for my m235i. The motor/performance surely is competent, but everything around it was a let down. The interior basically reaffirms that GM doesn't really get it. The biggest issue for me was sheer size. This is a big car. What's weird is that it isn't that much bigger than a m4, but it felt a foot longer and wider. Can't really explain it.

[F22_Alpin_Weiss]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

Do keep in mind that the suspension/handling differences between the 1LE and the regular SS are pretty substantial. The 1LE is much firmer.

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

Yeah I would say give the 1LE a test before settling your opinion. From all I have read, that's basically the killer combo right there. I know its not exactly the same comparison, but it would be like the difference in a 228/230 with or without the track handling package.

All the praise I have heard about the Camaro has been overwhelmingly on cars with the 1LE package, and the lap times really reinforce that.

Good to know, and to keep an open mind!

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

U mentioned RCF...have u driven that too? What did u think?

I have! I think the naturally aspirated V8 is a real gem in the segment, with plenty of gruff. I wished it had some more audio character, but given the brand & demographic, the restraint is understood. The interior quality, and especially the seats were top-notch, but the infotainment system was behind the times (awful touchpad controls notwithstanding), and I thought the general dash layout was a little wonky.

It was a pleasure to drive! Incredibly comfortable and planted. I was encouraged to floor it on our wonderfully drenched Northwestern roads, and it got a little squirrelly, but I never felt a lack of confidence in the car. I sadly don't recall much about the steering other than noting the car had a surprisingly good turning radius.

My complaints, and why I didn't leave with it were that you really feel the heft of the car - which I thought worked in its favor as a luxury cruiser - and just that: It really was a luxury cruiser. A car I would love to own if I were 20 years older, seeking a supple, comfortable, sporty, mode of transportation with power on demand, and I'm sure that's exactly how Lexus intended it. Unfortunately for them, that's not a broadly appealing market segment, and the significant discounts (at least our local) dealers are offering reflect that. I think it's unfair to compare it to the M4/C63, and went in with the mindset that it was indeed in that league. The B8 RS5 might be the nearest thing I could think of as a rival.

[F22_Alpin_Weiss]

Originally Posted by pz619

I also drove a 2SS, looking for a replacement for my m235i. The motor/performance surely is competent, but everything around it was a let down. The interior basically reaffirms that GM doesn't really get it. The biggest issue for me was sheer size. This is a big car. What's weird is that it isn't that much bigger than a m4, but it felt a foot longer and wider. Can't really explain it.

I forgot to mention this! It was a big detractor, and I felt the very same way. The dimensions from the drivers seat felt quite large, and the wideness especially so. I'm sure as with most cars, you'd acclimate to it and learn to manage the size, but I know what you mean.

I'm really curious now to see if the handling improvements of the 1LE offset the perceived negatives.