[19Duke97]

Originally Posted by CP911

I'm okay with that key functionality too! I had no idea because for some reason BMW doesn't like to keep 2 series cars on their lot for prospective customers to test drive. I'm basically buying the thing blindly in hopes that all of the reviews and positive feedback I've read online didn't lead me astray!

Cheers,

CP911

CP,
Performance BMW has a 2017 230i with a manual on site, and has for 8 months. I think a Charlotte dealership has a 240i with a manual in stock if you wanted to drive them both. Best of luck. I bucked the trend of this group and got the 230 with the THP and MSport. Honestly, I am not sure why people say it's the same, there was still over a 4K difference, and I felt I could not use the extra power in 90% of my driving around town. (Just up the road in Cary). If I lived out west, I would def get the 240, but the east coast is too locked with traffic. Best of luck on your choice!

[Miata13]

Originally Posted by 19Duke97

CP,
Performance BMW has a 2017 230i with a manual on site, and has for 8 months. I think a Charlotte dealership has a 240i with a manual in stock if you wanted to drive them both. Best of luck. I bucked the trend of this group and got the 230 with the THP and MSport. Honestly, I am not sure why people say it's the same, there was still over a 4K difference, and I felt I could not use the extra power in 90% of my driving around town. (Just up the road in Cary). If I lived out west, I would def get the 240, but the east coast is too locked with traffic. Best of luck on your choice!

I'm leaning the same direction....like the lighter, more tossable feel after back to back test drives, the lower cost and (not insignificantly) lower vehicle insurance costs for the 230i. I'd forego the M-Sport though IF I could get the M-Sport steering wheel separately...

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by msej449

And this 4-cyl 'lighter front end' thing is a US-only perception - I've never seen this expressed in any UK or European review (at least, not in the 18 months before the US R&T Review decided it had to stand out by saying something no one had mentioned before). It is so widespread in the US that it makes me wonder if there isn't some US-specific suspension/steering change that means a handling difference is put down to this between the two models .... Don't get me wrong, I'm sure people have test driven the 4 and 6 cyl versions and for a variety of reasons, prefer the handling of the former and I'd respect their preference, but I'm not sure that it's exclusively to do with the extra two cylinders.

It's not just R&T...here is an excerpt from Jalopnik:

I must have some kind of predilection for 2-Series road trips. The last time I was in one, my wife and I drove an M235i from Washington D.C. to North Carolina for a vintage BMW meetup. That car was fast, stylish, handled great, and even managed to be pretty practical in terms of room and luggage space.

The 228i is better. I really believe that. For one thing, at 3,300 pounds it's more than 200 pounds lighter than its six-cylinder sibling, and it really feels it. It's more nimble, more tossable, less nose-heavy.

The 228i has this BRZ-esque agility to it that makes it feel sharper than the M235i...

The part that puzzles me is how anyone can miss the extra weight over the front end! Even if the suspensions are calibrated differently, the additional weight is not trivial at that location.

[XutvJet]

I guess what puzzles me is where people are pulling these weight numbers. R&T tested the 228i 6MT vs M235 6MT vs M2 months ago. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...mparison-test/ The 228 was 3,341lbs and the M235 3,506lbs. That's 165lbs. The 228 had a 50.8/49.2 weight distribution and the M235 a 52.5/47.5 distribution. Or about 1.7% more weight over the nose. On a 3,506lb car, 1.7% equates to 60lbs. Can you really feel that?

The handling numbers between the two suggest the M235 having marginally more grip although both cars were equipped with the same suspension, tire, and wheel combo. I'm sure the better grip was just a matter of data variability, but the point is the two cars had equal grip.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the 228 can be spec'd with the larger brakes that come standard on the M235/240.

If weight bothers you, order the car with the moonroof deleted. I did that so I could:

1) Shed 40lbs from the top of the car.
2) Gain a solid 1.5" of head room.
3) Reduce the chances for rattles (moonroof rattles are common).
4) Cleaner look, less weight.

If you want more grip from the front in a M235/240, you simply run 245 width tires up front assuming you get you wheel offset math right with choosing 18X8 aftermarket rims. I plan on running a square 245 setup on my M235 soon.

It's clear to me BMW went with a relatively narrow tire/wheel setup to keep the M235 off the M2's heels. Look at the R&T test lap times. The M235 has less power (~30whp/40wtq less), much narrower tires, smaller brakes, and isn't not equipped with the wonder differential, but still managed to stay within 0.461 seconds on the lap with a professional driver.

[Sportstick]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I guess what puzzles me is where people are pulling these weight numbers. R&T tested the 228i 6MT vs M235 6MT vs M2 months ago. http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...mparison-test/ The 228 was 3,341lbs and the M235 3,506lbs. That's 165lbs. The 228 had a 50.8/49.2 weight distribution and the M235 a 52.5/47.5 distribution. Or about 1.7% more weight over the nose. On a 3,506lb car, 1.7% equates to 60lbs. Can you really feel that?

The handling numbers between the two suggest the M235 having marginally more grip although both cars were equipped with the same suspension, tire, and wheel combo. I'm sure the better grip was just a matter of data variability, but the point is the two cars had equal grip.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe the 228 can be spec'd with the larger brakes that come standard on the M235/240.

If weight bothers you, order the car with the moonroof deleted. I did that so I could:

1) Shed 40lbs from the top of the car.
2) Gain a solid 1.5" of head room.
3) Reduce the chances for rattles (moonroof rattles are common).
4) Cleaner look, less weight.

If you want more grip from the front in a M235/240, you simply run 245 width tires up front assuming you get you wheel offset math right with choosing 18X8 aftermarket rims. I plan on running a square 245 setup on my M235 soon.

It's clear to me BMW went with a relatively narrow tire/wheel setup to keep the M235 off the M2's heels. Look at the R&T test lap times. The M235 has less power (~30whp/40wtq less), much narrower tires, smaller brakes, and isn't not equipped with the wonder differential, but still managed to stay within 0.461 seconds on the lap with a professional driver.

I guess numbers do tend to fly around from different sources. C'est la vie!

A couple of things, though....

Yes, the brakes are the same with the THP onboard.

It's not grip...it's feel...the quickness of the transient steering response...how sharply the nose changes direction, even if once into a skid pad exercise, the other one hangs on better later into the event (an event some of us don't experience).

I changed the lower control arms to M2 to enhance that snappy steering feel and am loving it.

Tried to delete sunroof, but wasn't willing to give up what was packaged with it. It's less harmful to the light front end feel with the weight being quite central. The higher Cg isn't in my favor, of course, but that affects a different part of the experience.

Lastly, I drove the cars to make the comparison....in my case, the steering feel won out over the acceleration.

[B_Rice]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...st-scion-fr-s/

If you want steering feel these days, you probably want to either go frs/brz or miata. Or pony up for a P car.

[CP911]

Well, I have decided to go with the m240i in Melbourne Red. I was trying to be more conservative with this car purchase, but to hell with it. I'm going to be tracking this thing, and I'd rather not get passed on all the straights again when I go back to VIR for the PCA and BMWCAA DE events next year (I got passed regularly in my WRX w/ 2.0 turbo). Not to mention the sweet sound that the straight 6 makes!

I guess I just thought the 230i would suffice for my needs (it probably still would), but if my wife is telling me I can go get whatever I want, then I think I'd be a fool not to go for the B58 engine for only a few thousand $ more when I'm already spending that kind of dough. I was primarily concerned with the car's grip having all that power and all, but dozens of YouTube videos and car reviews have assured me the car's relatively small contact patch with the road does not put the B58's immense power to waste.

Choosing the color was actually the hardest part! The conservative and traditionalist in me was leaning towards Alpine White and I also considered Estoril Blue, but at the end of the day this is a pleasure-only weekend/track toy and I think MR just suits the car so well for my needs. There's also the fact that my Porsche was black, my WRX was white, and every car I've ever owned prior to those two was some shade of gray. I want an actual color this time around and MR is just lovely!

Thanks to all for the comments and your input. Gave me lots to think about, and as you can tell, it heavily influenced my decision to ditch the conservative approach and just get what my heart desires. You only live once, right?

Cheers!

CP911

[CP911]

Uh oh.. I just came across the cloth seat option available in other markets and I do want!

Someone please tell me it's possible to get these shipped over the pond somehow!??

I was undecided whether paying $1550 for half-fake leather i.e. Dakota leather as opposed to fully fake Sensatec was really worth it. Silly that I have to even waste brain cells over this when I'd absolutely opt for the cloth seats if they were available here.

C'mon BMW, wtf are you doing not offering those seats here? Shame.

[Kolyan2k]

100lbs of extra weight i6 n55 vs 4 cylinder.....I dont know, i think the choice is pretty clear. Its the N55 that makes me smile every day. People choose e92 M3 for that wonderful engine, although the car weights like 3700-3800 I think

Edit: 100lbs difference looks like for b58 m240 vs 230i. N55 m235i vs 228i is about 150 I guess

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Kolyan2k

100lbs of extra weight i6 n55 vs 4 cylinder.....I dont know, i think the choice is pretty clear. Its the N55 that makes me smile every day. People choose e92 M3 for that wonderful engine, although the car weights like 3700-3800 I think

Edit: 100lbs difference looks like for b58 m240 vs 230i. N55 m235i vs 228i is about 150 I guess

The BMW listed curb weights are wonky. The B58 is a heavier motor. Why? It's a closed deck block, has a mechanical water pump, an extra coolant pump for the turbo, an extra coolant reservoir for the air/water intercooler, a fluid filled air/water intercooler, and more fluid filled coolant lines. All that is going to add weight to the front end, definitely more so than an N55.

The M240 RWD 8AT has a listed curb weight of 3,570lbs. The M235 RWD 8AT has a listed curb weight of 3,525lbs. So technically the M240 has an additional ~45lbs sitting over the front end. That makes sense considering all the extra water weight

[nikko1960]

I did and its very cool indeed, especially in the wet.

[jr_s2k]

So, CP911, did you drive them both? Would like to know your thoughts. Regarding Sensatec vs. Dakota, lots of opinions on that. If you want something other than oyster or black, then the choice is made for you.

[CP911]

Originally Posted by jr_s2k

So, CP911, did you drive them both? Would like to know your thoughts. Regarding Sensatec vs. Dakota, lots of opinions on that. If you want something other than oyster or black, then the choice is made for you.

I have not. It seems my chances of getting a RWD/manual on a lot to test drive are practically zero. I've driven a B58 car (340i auto/xDrive) though and know what I'm getting into as far as the motor goes. Otherwise, I'm basically taking a giant leap of faith. I'm pretty flexible and can learn to love a car even if it's not perfect, so I think I'll be okay. Shorter wheelbase coupe + B58 + MT... what's not to love, right?

[CAMOETO]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

The BMW listed curb weights are wonky. The B58 is a heavier motor. Why? It's a closed deck block, has a mechanical water pump, an extra coolant pump for the turbo, an extra coolant reservoir for the air/water intercooler, a fluid filled air/water intercooler, and more fluid filled coolant lines. All that is going to add weight to the front end, definitely more so than an N55.

The M240 RWD 8AT has a listed curb weight of 3,570lbs. The M235 RWD 8AT has a listed curb weight of 3,525lbs. So technically the M240 has an additional ~45lbs sitting over the front end. That makes sense considering all the extra water weight

Actually that's not BMWs listed curb weight. You're listing the weights as measured by C&D in their instrumented test from 2014 and 2017. The cars were different, the m240i was basically fully loaded, while the m235i was a stripper model. What proof exists that with the same level of equipment the m240i is heavier than the m235i? Sounds like pure conjecture to me.

BMW lists the base m240i with 8A at 3519 pounds, and 3499 for the manual:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by CAMOETO

Actually that's not BMWs listed curb weight. You're listing the weights as measured by C&D in their instrumented test from 2014 and 2017. The cars were different, the m240i was basically fully loaded, while the m235i was a stripper model. What proof exists that with the same level of equipment the m240i is heavier than the m235i? Sounds like pure conjecture to me.

BMW lists the base m240i with 8A at 3519 pounds, and 3499 for the manual:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Conte...fications.aspx

Actually I pulled the curb weights from multiple sources. The reality though is the B58 is a heavier motor with all it's gear. When it comes to options on these cars, the only options on the US cars that will make any measurable difference in weight are the moonroof (~38lbs) and the 6MT (~50lbs lighter than the 8AT). Everything else amounts to radar sensors (2lbs maybe), nav (2lbs, maybe), a heated steering wheel (a few ounces maybe), headlight washers (2lbs maybe). The only changes in the M240 and M235 is the motor and changes in gearing to the 8AT. The interior has been revamped in the new models, but that's not saving weight. Lots of articles for various BMWs have noted the B58 adding weight.

And again, like I said, BMW's curb weights are wonky. My no nav, no moonroof, 6MT M235 weigh in at ~3,350lbs with 1/2 tank of fuel.

[crabu2]

I had test driven the 230 and M235 before ordering the 230. I didn't get to do any real driving with either because of the traffic, but I also couldn't tell much of a difference in engine performance from light to light. The thing I did notice was the handling. I was doing figure 8s because there are 2 roundabouts near the dealership and you can definitely tell a difference between the standard 230 versus the M235. I ordered the 230 with THP because of this. I also really wanted the M-steering wheel, but didn't order it thinking I could add it later. I changed my mind too late and couldn't add the M-Sport package, so I'm stuck with the standard wheel. Still, the wheel is more personal preference than anything else, and I'm now use to it... If you want that wheel, better order the M-Sport package because it's an arm and a leg to retro fit it. The primary reason is the airbag. You can't reuse the airbag because of it's shape.

With that said... If I were to do it again, I'd just get the M240... I'm told there's less throttle lag on the B58, but when I test drove the M235, it seemed just as bad. All I know is that I hate the throttle lag on the B48.