[scotthilly]

Hi everyone,

Just did a 24hr test drive from Carmax of a 2018 M240i RWD 6MT and wanted to give a brief review of my experience. Here's a brief list of cars I've owned or driven extensively.

2017 BMW 340i M Sport, rwd, 704m suspension, zf auto, my dad owned for 3 years
2011 BMW 335i Sport, rwd, 6 speed, 84k miles (owned for last 5k)
2019 VW GTI 6mt perf pack, owned for 30k miles

I absolutely loved my GTI but wanted to try something different after 3 years and found my 335i on BaT. I've really enjoyed that so far, but already thinking about what I want next. It's so rare to see any f22/f30/f32 manual, rwd, b58 engine so I had to try. Anyways, on with the review.

Exterior - Subjective but I love the exterior. Short, stubby, cool!

Interior - Interior feels nice, though slightly cheaper than the e90 / f30 (though that makes sense). iDrive is fantastic though I don't really like the lcd gauge cluster compared to the pre-lci one. The H/K in this one was pretty good, slightly worse than the e90 h/k and lacks an eq or surround settings. It feels on par with the f30 h/k though, but I've heard earlier 2 series were much worse.

Steering - Just so dead. It's super light on center, which is fine, but there's absolutely no road texture coming through at all. It feels somehow worse than the steering in the 340 and it's miles behind the GTI one. It couldn't even touch the e90. I appreciate the variable ratio and it feels direct, there's just no feedback at all. Really dissapointing especially as this one was on Super Sports with recent date codes.

Ride / Handling - I live in Chicago and a lot of the roads here are crap. The adaptive suspension handled bumps ok but bobbed a lot and there was lots of impact noise - similar to GTI levels of noise, which I was dissapointed by as that's an economy car underneath. It handled bumps slightly better than the e90 but the noise was worse and there was body motion in comfort that wasn't adequately handled. In sport, the bumps were too firm. There's not really a good in between.
- The 2 series chassis is extremely willing to rotate, especially on power. Much more than my e90 even when both are in dtc - that was fun! With that said, it's not at all predictable when it'll start compared to the e90. You can easily correct it when you do slide - but it's weird to start sliding. I have a cloverleaf highway entrance that I do over and over and over, and this was where the m240i suffered the absolute most. It rolled over and you could feel all the weight on the front outside tire. The difference between it and the e90 was truly shocking to me, and then combined with the unpredictability - it almost was more fun than the e90 because of the willingess to rotate and the unkown, but there's no middle ground. It just understeers and then steps out on power. in the e90 you can feel exactly where the limit of adhesion is and get it to step out in a manner that feels so much more confidence inspiring.

Engine - I actually feel bad saying it but the B58 is not as satisfying as the N55. I have the M Perf Power Kit & Exhaust which helps alot but the B58 seems to be laggier on inital tip in. It revs out cleaner and has much more top end pull - but it's laggier at first, which really surprised me. Plus.. the sound is no comparison. I'll do my best to upload videos but the original N55 sounds borderline exotic mixed with a diesel out the back, and sounds beautifully mechanical inside. The b58 is silent inside but does sound good, though not as good, out the back.

Transmission - Feels less mechnical than e90 but is much easier and more satisfying in day to day. I absolutely love the rev matching, but the knob is too high and shift travel is too long.


Anyways, this was a very long winded review but I hope you guys enjoyed. Overall, it's just a difference experience entirely. I like the F2/3x platform but it's really different overall. It's a more relaxing and less involved experience, and perhaps more capable, but lacks so much in involvement and experience. It's also much more reliable, has significantly better technology, and looks fresher.

I think it depends what you want - but the standard 2/3/4 series I think are one end of the spectrum, the e90 is the other, and the f80 is the goldilocks middle child. I absolutely loved the f80 I did a 24 drive on... but never posted that!

Please don't hesitate to ask questions, tell me I'm an idiot, or anything else! Thanks everyone.

[XutvJet]

I don't know what BMW did to the M240 steering, but it is quite a bit different than the steering in my 2016 M235. The M240 is much more dead and more loose. The M235's isn't amazing, but it way better than the M240s.

The M235/240 really need an LSD. It makes a massive difference in handling, acceleration, and chassis dynamics. It fixes many of the ills you noted.

I agree with you, the suspension is the biggest let down in this car. I would MUCH prefer a passive setup than the adaptive. There's just no good setting in adaptive. I totally agree with the pogoing sensation you noted too and it is annoying. I am running Bilstein Dampstronics out back with stock springs and it's helped a bit. I did have Dinan springs in the back with the helper spacer, but they're just too low in the back and make handling a bit wonky. Even with the spacer, the rear looks slammed.

Seeing that you have a 2011 N55 with an PWG, I think you'd be surprised at just how much better than EWG N55 pulls up top. Your N55 has a smaller turbo and runs out of steam around 5800rpm. The EWG N55 makes peak power at around 6400rpms and power does not drop significantly until 6700rpms. It still doesn't have the lungs of the B58 up top, but it basically sits right between the PWG N55 and 1st gen B58. Add a tune and DP to the EWG N55 and it really wakes up in the 3000-6000rpms range. My M235 has Dinan Stage 2 piggyback and HJS Euro catted DP and it's way more than enough for the street (around 380whp/400wtq) for a 3350lb car. A stock M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq. I do REALLY like the B58 though and would not be opposed to owning one.

[scotthilly]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

I don't know what BMW did to the M240 steering, but it is quite a bit different than the steering in my 2016 M235. The M240 is much more dead and more loose. The M235's isn't amazing, but it way better than the M240s.

The M235/240 really need an LSD. It makes a massive difference in handling, acceleration, and chassis dynamics. It fixes many of the ills you noted.

I agree with you, the suspension is the biggest let down in this car. I would MUCH prefer a passive setup than the adaptive. There's just no good setting in adaptive. I totally agree with the pogoing sensation you noted too and it is annoying. I am running Bilstein Dampstronics out back with stock springs and it's helped a bit. I did have Dinan springs in the back with the helper spacer, but they're just too low in the back and make handling a bit wonky. Even with the spacer, the rear looks slammed.

Seeing that you have a 2011 N55 with an PWG, I think you'd be surprised at just how much better than EWG N55 pulls up top. Your N55 has a smaller turbo and runs out of steam around 5800rpm. The EWG N55 makes peak power at around 6400rpms and power does not drop significantly until 6700rpms. It still doesn't have the lungs of the B58 up top, but it basically sits right between the PWG N55 and 1st gen B58. Add a tune and DP to the EWG N55 and it really wakes up in the 3000-6000rpms range. My M235 has Dinan Stage 2 piggyback and HJS Euro catted DP and it's way more than enough for the street (around 380whp/400wtq) for a 3350lb car. A stock M235 makes around 310whp/330wtq. I do REALLY like the B58 though and would not be opposed to owning one.

Thanks for the detailed notes, I really appreciate it!

I was really surprised by how bad the steering was. My dad had a 2017 340i and I swear the steering was better... my mom has a 2018 X1 and it's steering is better than either of these, but I digress.

Interesting note about the EWG N55 - I didn't know that. It's all about tradeoffs - B58 pulls harder and has better fuel economy, reliability, but is absolutely soul-less imo. EWG pulls better and is more reliable but doesn't sound quite as good as PWG, though maybe it's the best sweet spot!

Glad to hear your suspension notes. I would never consider myself the best driver or that good at understanding this sort of stuff - but I know my mk7 gti with adaptive dampers was much better and that's dissapointing. Chris Harris has a mk7 R vs m235i video where he notes the same thing. Plus, he says the m235i steering is better than the the R - so that adds credit to your idea that they changed something as my gti steering was WAY better than the m240, even on dws06+ vs pss.

[Nickies]

OP, you drive the car for one day and you don't find anything positive about it. What is obvious is you don't like it and you wasted your time writing a bad review and furthermore trying to tell us we are all morons for owning one.

What is also obvious, you should turn the page and just forget forever about any BMWs. You don't bring anything positive and constructive to this community.

[scotthilly]

Originally Posted by Nickies

OP, you drive the car for one day and you don't find anything positive about it. What is obvious is you don't like it and you wasted your time writing a bad review and furthermore trying to tell us we are all morons for owning one.

What is also obvious, you should turn the page and just forget forever about any BMWs. You don't bring anything positive and constructive to this community.

I’m sorry you feel that way. I don’t feel that’s the case, I think I did a good job of weighing the pros and cons. Please keep in mind I’m also comparing it to what some consider the “holy grail” of BMW’s. I’d still have the M240i over an S3 or other equivalents.

I still own my e90, so I hope I don’t forget about BMW’s

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Nickies

OP, you drive the car for one day and you don't find anything positive about it. What is obvious is you don't like it and you wasted your time writing a bad review and furthermore trying to tell us we are all morons for owning one.

What is also obvious, you should turn the page and just forget forever about any BMWs. You don't bring anything positive and constructive to this community.

Wow, someone is real touchy when someone point out the obvious flaws with the M235/240 cars

I've owned my M235 since new for 7.5 years now. Prior cars were no where as nice, but I was a bit surprised by the chassis tuning of my M235 after I got accustomed to the car. My friend's E9X N55 coupe on the sports suspension and 18s felt way more buttoned down and compliant. My stock M235 was faster than his Stage 1 tuned E90 and the M235 could generate better handling and track numbers, but the E90 just felt more BMW like.

In BMW's own testing, the M235 8AT with an LSD out ran the 1M on the Ring by about 2 seconds which shows just how much an improvement the F22 chassis was. The F22 handling limits are high but the suspension tuning is wonky and front and rear axles feel at odds with themselves. The M2 cars are vastly superior and address these issues minus the steering feel.

My slick top M235 6MT with an LSD, 245/35R18 square MP4S setup, Dinan springs in the front, and Bilsteins shocks in the back is far better than stock, but it still doesn't feel great. Still way too much movement, lean, and pogoing around. I'm going to spend any more money trying to fix it because it. I'll either get an OG M2 or move to something else. My 2011 Cayman has really jaded my opinion of my M235's chassis dynamics as well.

[Mike F.]

It handled bumps slightly better than the e90 but the noise was worse and there was body motion in comfort that wasn't adequately handled. In sport, the bumps were too firm. There's not really a good in between.

Interesting that this is how you perceived it. I went from an E90 ('06 330i with sport suspension) to a '20 M240i and I find the F22 suspension to work very well. Maybe the roads are different here, but I find that comfort mode handles them really well, soaking up minor bumps without bobbing around or anything like that. Sport mode seems pretty similar to the E90, to my butt, anyway.

[scotthilly]

Originally Posted by Mike F.

Interesting that this is how you perceived it. I went from an E90 ('06 330i with sport suspension) to a '20 M240i and I find the F22 suspension to work very well. Maybe the roads are different here, but I find that comfort mode handles them really well, soaking up minor bumps without bobbing around or anything like that. Sport mode seems pretty similar to the E90, to my butt, anyway.

Thanks for the feedback!

Was your e90 on run flats? That could play a huge role as M240i’s are not as far as I know.

I’m in Chicago so awful roads, but they present a good test. I might’ve mentioned but the m240i felt better in small little ripples but it was the big bumps, or mid corner ones, that made the suspension feel much worse.

[BlueberryPie]

Originally Posted by scotthilly

Thanks for the feedback!

Was your e90 on run flats? That could play a huge role as M240i’s are not as far as I know.

I’m in Chicago so awful roads, but they present a good test. I might’ve mentioned but the m240i felt better in small little ripples but it was the big bumps, or mid corner ones, that made the suspension feel much worse.

Interesting to read your initial post as this is my first BMW - I tried not to take it too personally lol.

My 2019 came with run-flats from the factory, Pirelli all-seasons, I forget the exact model. I threw em out and put on some PS4S during the warmer months of the year and they ride so much better. I came from a Golf R before my 240 and feel like the two suspension modes on the 240 do a better job than the 3 in the R, but that's just my take.

Edit - forgot to mention mine came with a square setup 225's all around. My PS4S setup is also square all around - 235/40/18 on 18x8.5 wheels.

[albertw]

Originally Posted by scotthilly

The 2 series chassis is extremely willing to rotate, especially on power. Much more than my e90 even when both are in dtc - that was fun! With that said, it's not at all predictable when it'll start compared to the e90. You can easily correct it when you do slide - but it's weird to start sliding. I have a cloverleaf highway entrance that I do over and over and over, and this was where the m240i suffered the absolute most. It rolled over and you could feel all the weight on the front outside tire. The difference between it and the e90 was truly shocking to me, and then combined with the unpredictability - it almost was more fun than the e90 because of the willingess to rotate and the unkown, but there's no middle ground. It just understeers and then steps out on power. in the e90 you can feel exactly where the limit of adhesion is and get it to step out in a manner that feels so much more confidence inspiring.

My RWD car on 225s doesn't do this. Entering the same corner at gradually increasing speeds with just enough throttle to maintain speed, all four tires begin to slide at the same time. From there, just a bit of extra throttle steps the rear out reliably and predictably.

What you describe is probably the result of larger, 245s on the rear. The fronts slide while the rears are still a fair ways from breaking traction, so it takes more power to spin the inside tire and the extra cornering force then demanded of the outside rear might or might not be enough to get it to slide. This is probably why adding an LSD makes it easier to slide a RWD M240i - both tires spin together reliably.

Wanting to avoid that behaviour was the reason I specified 225s front and rear. Other members on 245s front and rear have posted that their cars are well balanced as well.

[scotthilly]

Originally Posted by albertw

My RWD car on 225s doesn't do this. Entering the same corner at gradually increasing speeds with just enough throttle to maintain speed, all four tires begin to slide at the same time. From there, just a bit of extra throttle steps the rear out reliably and predictably.

What you describe is probably the result of larger, 245s on the rear. The fronts slide while the rears are still a fair ways from breaking traction, so it takes more power to spin the inside tire and the extra cornering force then demanded of the outside rear might or might not be enough to get it to slide. This is probably why adding an LSD makes it easier to slide a RWD M240i - both tires spin together reliably.

Wanting to avoid that behaviour was the reason I specified 225s front and rear. Other members on 245s front and rear have posted that their cars are well balanced as well.

Yeah, this one was 225/245 so I have no experience. But with that said, I'm not sure that a square set up would solve the problem. That would add more grip to the front and reduce understeer... but I didn't find that to be the problem. Understeer is fine - there's some in my e90 and there was lots on the GTI. What isn't fine is the lack of transition between under and oversteer and the fact there's no feeling in the roll transition; it's too muted. That's a great thing to know though, it'd be interesting to try one set up like that.

[Mr. Bill]

I think albertw is onto something. I have the same size tires all around on my M240i x-drive and i have broken free all four tires through a cloverleaf type of turn and the car just rotated through without any drama. The balance through the turn was superb. I have spacers and aftermarket rubber (Pilots) on mine, so that may have something to do with it. I’ve owned all types of fun cars over the years (3rd Gen RX-7, S2000, Audi RS5, Boxster S, M3, TTRS) and this one is my favorite for DD. Granted that those cars have been over the last 14 years, so the tech was older, but I am astounded at how good the M240i is for street use. I have considered upgrading to an M4, but I’m afraid that I will lose some of the granular feel that I get with the M240i that makes it so awesome for me. Unlike most people, I can’t tell the loss of the feel through the steering wheel. I measure grip through the feedback I get from the seat. I’m no speed racer, but that’s what works for me.

If I were to replace this car, I would probably consider a 911 4S, but I can’t see using that for a DD and I don’t want a garage queen.

[Mike F.]

Originally Posted by scotthilly

Thanks for the feedback!

Was your e90 on run flats? That could play a huge role as M240i’s are not as far as I know.

I’m in Chicago so awful roads, but they present a good test. I might’ve mentioned but the m240i felt better in small little ripples but it was the big bumps, or mid corner ones, that made the suspension feel much worse.

I was initially on run-flats, then went to regular tires. The run-flats were certainly worse - they were awful, but I still found the 240 to be less harsh than the E90.

[mecheng77]

I own:
2007 328i
2014 M235i

The E90 chassis and steering is great, very solid feeling car. The N52 is dreamy smooth and great for cruising, but terrible city fuel
Economy, my N55 is much more efficient

My m235i is the car I always lust over to
Drive. The engine sounds glorious and has power everywhere in the rev range and as others said it’s tuned so it has power on top as well but a bit less than the B58.
I find the steering to be excellent once at speed, yes slow speed it’s light but that’s not a bad thing for just regular driving when I don’t need the feedback. At speed it weights up amazingly

Interesting that people say the M240i has less steering feel, first I’ve heard that. I wonder if the x drive has something to do
With it, my car is rwd.

The ride is much better in the M235i, the E90 is nervous over small bumps.

The driver position, tail Happy nature, seats, interior, sound, and amazing automatic all make my M235i something I love driving, but I still have great respect for the E90,
It’s held up well

[fiveightandten]

I also have an E90, be it a 328i. IMO, they're completely different animals. The E90's wheelbase is longer and it has a completely different driving feel. All the driver inputs are higher effort. It feels like a planted moderately sized German sports sedan.

The F22 is much more darty and willing to change direction. Despite the size difference not being all that big, I think the wheelbase and suspension geometry make for them to feel quite different. The F22 drives more like an E36 or E46, which I think is a good thing as I prefer those to my E90 (I own both, along with an E30). IMO, the E46 was the best 3 series they ever built. The F22 is really a 3 series with a slightly shorter wheelbase, and the "3 series" has been a 5 series for some time now.

The F22 steering is numb, like most electric steering. But it does weight up ok in Sport, and truth told, it's very tight and responsive to input. They got the steering bang on in the E46 and E90 (though with different effort levels), and went downhill from there.

F22 has a fair amount of body motion. I was dead set on modifying my suspension when I got the car. But I spent hours driving the F22 back to back with my E90, E36, E46, and E30, and came to the conclusion that I'd leave the F22 stock for the foreseeable future. Suspension tuning is a compromise, and I think they stuck a nice middle ground for the car. But it's not difficult to swap out if you want to push things in another direction. And to be fair, the motion is controlled and the car is pretty comfortable considering the level of performance it provides.

My biggest complaint about the F22 is the insanely long clutch throw. It's laughable when I get in my M235i after I've been driving any of the others. Hell, my E30 clutch has a shorter throw than the F22. If I could only fix 1 thing, that would be it. If I had 2 wishes, I'd take hydraulic steering.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts, it's interesting to hear other people's experiences.

[Saxatilis]

just picked up an 2018 m240, still have a 2010 335i…gonna take some getting used to as i already miss the steering and feel of the 335…the heaviness/weightiness…although the m240 def feels quicker…