THE LARGEST BMW 2-SERIES FORUM ON THE PLANET
2Addicts
2Addicts
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum BMW 2 Series (F22) Forum 2 Series Photos and Videos E46 M3 CSL vs M235i Coupe Track Test Review (Autoexpress)

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      04-15-2014, 08:26 PM   #23
TheBingoBalls
Brigadier General
TheBingoBalls's Avatar
Canada
3805
Rep
4,655
Posts

Drives: BMW
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Toronto, Ontario

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uponone76 View Post
Huh?

How does it expose the weaknesses? If anything, doesn't it show its strengths?

The CSL is a hardcore track car. Tuned suspension, motor, carbon roof, LSD, and barely street legal tires (BMW warns you not to drive the car in the rain or cold weather). Yet it posts the same time as a car that's "not a real M car", lacks the fancy "s" motor, no LSD, and is more of an all around performer instead of focused track car.

I get it, the CSL is an amazing car, but come on........
This. I'm siding with the m235i. The E46 M3 is the benchmark not the other way around so for a "fake" M car to even hang with it is impressive.

I figured this was how the comments will be:

a) Advantage E46 M3 CSL: Even after all these years, it can hang with cars of today...more pure, N/A I6, etc...

OR

b) Advantage m235i: With all the safety precautions and how heavy cars have become, it can hang with a car built for the track.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 08:30 PM   #24
Staszek
Schumacher
Staszek's Avatar
785
Rep
2,270
Posts

Drives: E30 325is,E93 M3,X7M50,F06 M6
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Lake Forest, IL

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
Watching this vid just reminds me how classically beautiful the E46 M3 was.

What a car.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 08:47 PM   #25
NOJODA
Captain
NOJODA's Avatar
Colombia
43
Rep
706
Posts

Drives: 2006 M3 Vert 6MT
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: En La Puta Madre

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13 View Post
I owned 3 E46's, The last one my 2004 cost $57K without Nav and my M235 cost $48K 10 years later. That alone says a lot. I'm actually getting the M235 because I miss driving the E46 and used ones all have 100,000 miles on them or have been beat to hell.
not true, I own 2.

2002 bought new, 2006 vert bought in year 2012 in mint condition.
you just have to look.
__________________

2006 M3 VERT 6-MT - CURRENT |2007 AUDI A4 2.0 T - GONE |2002 BMW M3 COUPE SMG - GONE
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 08:53 PM   #26
6underpressure
Private First Class
7
Rep
151
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: south nj

iTrader: (0)

M > BMW
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 08:56 PM   #27
d3rtyF87
New Member
d3rtyF87's Avatar
2
Rep
29
Posts

Drives: Alpine White M2
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: NH

iTrader: (2)

The e46 m3 is an amazing car. Even still in this age almost every other car review I've seen on this forum, different vehicles are still going up against it. As time has changed and still changing. New vehicles will soon surpass or has surpassed the e46 m3. The m235i is an a impressive car for today.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 09:03 PM   #28
Yeru
Second Lieutenant
Yeru's Avatar
United_States
211
Rep
239
Posts

Drives: 2013 IB E92 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Texas

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennu
The 2 series just needs an LSD and that would make the difference.
+1.
This comparison would be even more interesting when adding m235i PPK, m perf suspension and M perf brake kit.

Wonder too how the Racing Edition would fare against the CSL, but that definitely would not be a fair comparison.
__________________
'13 E92 M3 ZCP | Interlagos Blue | 6MT | Speed Cloth | Stripper | MPE | 65K miles
'07 E90 335i | Sonora Metallic | 6MT | Premium | N54 Perf Power Kit | Perf Suspension | 18" BMW MotorSport Wheels | 90K miles/145K Km
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 09:07 PM   #29
mlhj83
Scythe-Meister
mlhj83's Avatar
United Kingdom
90
Rep
1,053
Posts

Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP | F80 M3 CS
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: London

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete_vB
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmboone25 View Post
Pretty interesting that they have the same lap times - the M235 is heavier, with slimmer tires, and less horsepower. More torque with the N55 though...
My money is on tires. Despite the fact that the CSL uses Pilot Sport Cups, tire technology has come a long way in the last decade- something close to a 30 second lap time reduction on the 'Ring due to tires alone if reports are to be believed. Depending on the age/ spec of the PSCs used, expect up to a .05 G advantage to PSS, enough to wipe out the power, weight and and handling advantage the driver noted in his review. It'd be very interesting to see them on equal rubber...
CSL in this video is running Conti Sport Contact 5 I believe - from pausing the video and examining tread pattern.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 09:16 PM   #30
Kong Sheng Han
Banned
North Korea
303
Rep
1,140
Posts

Drives: Something something racecar
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Austin, Texas

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2011 BMW 328i  [0.00]
2001 BMW M3  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucky13
I owned 3 E46's, The last one my 2004 cost $57K without Nav and my M235 cost $48K 10 years later. That alone says a lot. I'm actually getting the M235 because I miss driving the E46 and used ones all have 100,000 miles on them or have been beat to hell.
Don't do it! The perfect one will come up. 6-12 months max.
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 09:20 PM   #31
e39>all
Second Lieutenant
3
Rep
228
Posts

Drives: 09 335i sedan
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: TX

iTrader: (0)

I wish the new m3/4 sounded remotely as good as this e46
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 09:43 PM   #32
AbuArije5
First Lieutenant
11
Rep
353
Posts

Drives: Non
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: New York

iTrader: (1)

Enough already csl went to far
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 10:50 PM   #33
FogCityM3
Colonel
FogCityM3's Avatar
497
Rep
2,400
Posts

Drives: M3 (E90) & Porsche GT3 RS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: San Francisco

iTrader: (0)

Exactly... that 7:50 M3 CSL Sport Auto time wasn't touched by the 1M, the F10 M5, E90M3 and will be tough for the new M3/4 to beat. Even the E92 M3GTS had a Sportauto time of 7:48. M235i is impressive, but let's not kid ourselves, is not the track-carver that the CSL is on more demanding tracks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmd2003 View Post
Guys the E46 M3 CSL set a 7:50 ring time by Sport Auto . The M235 can't touch it on track if driven well / on non dry rotted tires . I strongly suspect the CSL tires were wayyy too old , and the driver was overly cautious bc of the rarity of the vehicle . Let's get real here the M235 is a good car but it's no CSL .
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 11:08 PM   #34
KevinM
Brigadier General
KevinM's Avatar
2931
Rep
3,285
Posts

Drives: 2002 M5;2007 M Coupe;2020 M2C
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Tucson

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2020 M2 Competition  [10.00]
2007 E86 M coupe  [8.38]
2002 E39 M5  [9.00]
Wow, nice showing for the M235i and the conclusions not too surprising.

Two letters I want to see on the back of a car I will own in the future: M2. BMW has an opportunity to knock that one out of the park given the M235i is so strong in many ways.

Now, I have an S54 in my M coupe (I realize the CSL has a more powerful version) and I am a huge fan. It sounds and feels fantastic, but does lack that low end grunt that turbocharging gives new BMWs. At 8K RPM, I guarantee you won't care about turbos...All that said, the S62 in the E39 M5 might be my favorite all-around engine ever.
__________________
2020 F87 M2C Hockenheim Silver/MT
2002 E39 M5 Sterling Gray/Caramel
2007 E86 Z4M Coupe Silver Gray/Black
2021 Kia Telluride (hauler)
Appreciate 0
      04-15-2014, 11:14 PM   #35
dreamspeed
Lieutenant Colonel
dreamspeed's Avatar
United_States
260
Rep
1,616
Posts

Drives: 6MT
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Los Angeles

iTrader: (0)

News flash, new cars are faster than old cars. A random Camry would blow the doors off of an old Ferrari at the stoplight.
__________________
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 12:02 AM   #36
Robert
Major General
414
Rep
6,968
Posts

Drives: 135i -> is350 -> Tesla M3 perf
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Socal

iTrader: (1)

A 11 years old CSL looks better than latest BMW design, progress backwards
__________________
- There's nothing in my pocket other than knives and lint
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 12:03 AM   #37
damnitBobby
Major
991
Rep
1,370
Posts

Drives: 2018 M3 ZCP
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Houston

iTrader: (0)

man i used to like the looks of the m235i.. but it looked really awkward in that video... wish BMW would cut out the weak sauce m235i stuff and bring on the M2
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 12:07 AM   #38
tlp
Colonel
United_States
276
Rep
2,216
Posts

Drives: 991 GT3, Sold:'11 e92 M3 SG/FR
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Las Vegas/SoCal

iTrader: (6)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by mlhj83 View Post
CSL in this video is running Conti Sport Contact 5 I believe - from pausing the video and examining tread pattern.
Yep....look at 1:26

Not sure if they are Connti's but they are definitely not Cup tires.
__________________
991 GT3, Sold: '11 e92 M3 SG/FR ZCP|ZCV|ZP2|2MK|494|415|6NR|752
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 01:01 AM   #39
sergiomgc
Private
sergiomgc's Avatar
30
Rep
48
Posts

Drives: BMW M2
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ

iTrader: (0)

I would like to see this test run again with an M235i with LSD.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 01:02 AM   #40
mr_z4mc1m_oz
Captain
mr_z4mc1m_oz's Avatar
272
Rep
662
Posts

Drives: BMW Z4 M Coupe & 1M
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Sydney Australia

iTrader: (0)

The e46 CSL and even the e46 M3 look simply stunning after circa a decade. The m235i looks great from the front and sides. The rear is shocking and the interior feels cheap for a car that costs close to $100k in Australia.
__________________
Current: Z4MCoupe, Interlagos Blue, Carbon Extended Leather, Sat Nav, Heated Seats, Supersprint Exhaust, BBS CH19's, Stubby Aerial. AND E82 1M, Alpine White

Sold: 3 x 130i (White, Red & Black), Mk4 VW Golf R32, '03 Reno Clio Sport
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 01:50 AM   #41
Ezio
Brigadier General
Ezio's Avatar
United_States
380
Rep
3,934
Posts

Drives: 2023 Alfa Romeo, 2023 m240i
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: MI

iTrader: (0)

I still would rather own a legend.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 02:29 AM   #42
Wozich
Private First Class
Wozich's Avatar
No_Country
77
Rep
146
Posts

Drives: 2023 GO1 X3 30d LCI
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Slovenia

iTrader: (0)

I still think the M3 CSL could make a quicker lap time. On the Nurburgring the only BMW that is faster than the M3 CSL (7:50) is the E92 M3 GTS (7:48). I like the M235i and I might buy it in a couple of years. But the M3 CSL is my favorite BMW car of all time.
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 02:36 AM   #43
Thurman Murch
Lieutenant
Seychelles
62
Rep
499
Posts

Drives: M3
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Island in the sun

iTrader: (0)

Let's not kid ourselves.. If a proper driver was at the helm the CSL would obliterate the M235i on the track but I give credit to the M235i for being a good remedy for waiting on a new F8X or more specifically the M2 to come out

A,good driver can drive good no matter the transmission

The press driver seemed somewhat scared/cautious in the CSL for obvious reasons

I'd take an E46 M3 all day over any of the current non M offerings

M really is > BMW

I wish I had a CSL in my barn
Appreciate 0
      04-16-2014, 03:15 AM   #44
creepy coupe
Lieutenant General
creepy coupe's Avatar
1867
Rep
13,043
Posts

Drives: BMW M340I G20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: UK

iTrader: (2)

Garage List
2015 BMW 435d  [0.00]
2009 335i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uponone76 View Post
Huh?

How does it expose the weaknesses? If anything, doesn't it show its strengths?

The CSL is a hardcore track car. Tuned suspension, motor, carbon roof, LSD, and barely street legal tires (BMW warns you not to drive the car in the rain or cold weather). Yet it posts the same time as a car that's "not a real M car", lacks the fancy "s" motor, no LSD, and is more of an all around performer instead of focused track car.

I get it, the CSL is an amazing car, but come on........
+1 if a road car can even get close the a purpose built special. and carry + 75kgs and has nigh on a full tank of fuel. I think it highlights the abilities of the M235i
__________________
--------------------------------------------------------------
Current car.M240i.
Previous.MINI JCW. E92 325i. 435d M235i.M135i. 635d Coupe, E92 M3 manual, E92 M3 DCT Competition Pack. E92 335i, Porsche Cayman S Gen2, 135i Coupe. E92 320d, MK5 R32. MK5 Golf GTi,MK5 Golf GT-TDI,E46 318Ci.
Appreciate 0
Post Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:42 PM.




2addicts
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST