[BMW F22]

Took it in the first time for a steering wheel/column noise about a month ago, maybe longer. After 4-5 times the noise is still there. The last time they replaced the steering column itself. I brought it back today because of the noise and another rattling noise popped up. So this would be the 5th time I've brought it in.

At what point does it qualify as a lemon?

[Sportstick]

When your state laws are met. Not a federal standard. Check local sources.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Depends on the issue, and depends on state. For California at least, if it is just rattles or plastic noises, you wont be able to lemon that. It has to be a mechanical or safety issue typically.

I am guessing you have the same noise a lot of us have, which is the plastic around the steering column causes rattles/vibrations. To make sure, if you hear it, try pressing firmly on it to see if it stops. If that's the case I think tightening the trim, or felt tape should fix it.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

Depends on the issue, and depends on state. For California at least, if it is just rattles or plastic noises, you wont be able to lemon that. It has to be a mechanical or safety issue typically.

I am guessing you have the same noise a lot of us have, which is the plastic around the steering column causes rattles/vibrations. To make sure, if you hear it, try pressing firmly on it to see if it stops. If that's the case I think tightening the trim, or felt tape should fix it.

They've already tried the felt tape on the steering wheel. Didn't fix it. Tried lubricating it twice, didn't work. 4th time they replaced steering column. Not sure what they're gonna do this time around. I feel like the handling is affected somehow too. When taking corners (even at low speeds), the driver side seems to lean in kind of awkwardly.

[XutvJet]

Is it plastic in the steering wheel rattling (like around the airbag) or it actual metallic knocking?

Leaning "akwardly" really doesn't make any sense because that would indicate a broken sway bar link or something major in suspension. That sort of issue is easily seen and would make a hell of a racket. Probably in your head.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Is it plastic in the steering wheel rattling (like around the airbag) or it actual metallic knocking?

Leaning "akwardly" really doesn't make any sense because that would indicate a broken sway bar link or something major in suspension. That sort of issue is easily seen and would make a hell of a racket. Probably in your head.

It's probably the steering rack not the column.

With the car running but stopped turn the steering wheel briskly left to right. Do you hear/feel any knocking?

[wntrsnowg]

You won't be able to claim lemon law. Rattling and noises are somewhat subjective as to how loud is too loud. I agree with what someone above said: if it's mechanical and/or safety then that's lemon law

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by wntrsnowg

You won't be able to claim lemon law. Rattling and noises are somewhat subjective as to how loud is too loud. I agree with what someone above said: if it's mechanical and/or safety then that's lemon law

Originally Posted by pikcachu

It's probably the steering rack not the column.

With the car running but stopped turn the steering wheel briskly left to right. Do you hear/feel any knocking?

Yes. So if I turn the steering to the left and pull it back to the right it made a clunky noise. Turning the other way is fine. They replaced the entire column (AFAIK) and that went away. Now when I turn right, there's a mechanical tendency for the car to want to pull it back to left and straighten out. Turn left is fine and feels smooth.

When I corner right the left side feels off somehow. Before there was vibration and droning inside the cabin. They said it was the wrong software installed and corrected it. The droning went away and it doesn't vibrate anymore. However, if you picture the car riding on rails when cornering left, it feels a bit off rails when cornering right. I have driven on canyon roads pretty often for 15 years with various cars so I'm very in tune with what a car is supposed to feel like. I had an X1 and X1 loaners the last few times I went in for service and even those felt much better than my car. Something is definitely off on the left side. I just hope they'll be able to figure it out and fix it.

Originally Posted by wntrsnowg

You won't be able to claim lemon law. Rattling and noises are somewhat subjective as to how loud is too loud. I agree with what someone above said: if it's mechanical and/or safety then that's lemon law

Yeah, I think you guys might be right. It didn't have those issues until recently and the rattling just developed today. It's strange really. If it gets worse other problems may occur. I will definitely push for it when that happens.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Are you sure you don't have a bent wheel or something? I am surprised they are just throwing steering racks at it without going further.

Take it in again, and make sure you tell them you don't want it back again if they don't properly test the fix this time. Maybe even try a different dealer.

If they are actually replacing the steering column multiple times, you can actually fall within the lemon law for sure here. I think 3 or 4 times is the required amount of a failed repair on the same item. Steering is a pretty big safety concern as well as integral mechanical part. So I would look up people that have done lemon law returns before. And if need be contact BMW NA.

I would look for examples of people that have gone through this. Take it in again, see what they come up with. If I were in your shoes, and there was a legitimate issue with steering as you say, I would definitely try and lemon the car if they cannot repair it.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

http://www.dca.ca.gov/acp/pdf_files/englemn.pdf

This goes over the requirements for California Lemon law:

Basically from my understanding, 2 attempts to repair a serious safety issue, or 4 or more attempts at any other issue, or if the vehicle has spent more than 30 days for repairs within any time for repairs.

This applies to the vehicle through the entirety of its original manufacturers warranty.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

Are you sure you don't have a bent wheel or something? I am surprised they are just throwing steering racks at it without going further.

Take it in again, and make sure you tell them you don't want it back again if they don't properly test the fix this time. Maybe even try a different dealer.

If they are actually replacing the steering column multiple times, you can actually fall within the lemon law for sure here. I think 3 or 4 times is the required amount of a failed repair on the same item. Steering is a pretty big safety concern as well as integral mechanical part. So I would look up people that have done lemon law returns before. And if need be contact BMW NA.

I would look for examples of people that have gone through this. Take it in again, see what they come up with. If I were in your shoes, and there was a legitimate issue with steering as you say, I would definitely try and lemon the car if they cannot repair it.

I had thought about the bent wheel. It's pretty unlikely though as I just had them looked at by a local tires dealer (America's Tire) after the first time. I've been spending a lot of time driving back and forth. Such a hassle.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Yes. So if I turn the steering to the left and pull it back to the right it made a clunky noise. Turning the other way is fine. They replaced the entire column (AFAIK) and that went away. Now when I turn right, there's a mechanical tendency for the car to want to pull it back to left and straighten out. Turn left is fine and feels smooth.

When I corner right the left side feels off somehow. Before there was vibration and droning inside the cabin. They said it was the wrong software installed and corrected it. The droning went away and it doesn't vibrate anymore. However, if you picture the car riding on rails when cornering left, it feels a bit off rails when cornering right. I have driven on canyon roads pretty often for 15 years with various cars so I'm very in tune with what a car is supposed to feel like. I had an X1 and X1 loaners the last few times I went in for service and even those felt much better than my car. Something is definitely off on the left side. I just hope they'll be able to figure it out and fix it.




Yeah, I think you guys might be right. It didn't have those issues until recently and the rattling just developed today. It's strange really. If it gets worse other problems may occur. I will definitely push for it when that happens.

Steering rack is different than the column... it's weird that the issue went away after the column replacement and came back...

only thing left are the tie rods, ball joint or the whole steering rack which also includes the rods and joints

If you can lift one front wheel just a bit with a jack and try to briskly turn left to right and see if you still hear the noise... then lower the wheel and do the same with the other front wheel





http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_2076

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/show...diagId=32_2071

[BMW F22]

Dealer called and said my car is ready to go (6th or 7th time in for service). Do I pick it up or leave it there until the case is settled?

BMWNA is rendering a decision soon. I have also opened a case with the state of CA for arbitration/buy back.

[p912guy]

I'd pick it up and drive it - good faith showing on your part should it come to arbitration. It's also the only way to know if the issue has been fixed or continues.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by p912guy

I'd pick it up and drive it - good faith showing on your part should it come to arbitration. It's also the only way to know if the issue has been fixed or continues.

Agreed. I'll pick it up today or tomorrow.

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Agreed. I'll pick it up today or tomorrow.

If the noise comes back, then you pretty much have your case right there. One more unsuccessful attempt.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Dealer called and said my car is ready to go (6th or 7th time in for service). Do I pick it up or leave it there until the case is settled?

BMWNA is rendering a decision soon. I have also opened a case with the state of CA for arbitration/buy back.

Do you know what they did this time to fix ?

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Luftwaffe1O1

If the noise comes back, then you pretty much have your case right there. One more unsuccessful attempt.

Right. Although, I'd rather have the last time as their last attempt. Really tired of having to go back and forth.

Originally Posted by pikcachu

Do you know what they did this time to fix ?

Not sure yet. I haven't picked up the car. SA left a VM this morning saying to let him know when I'll come down so the shop foreman can explain what they did to fix it. I left him a VM to call me back. I'd like to know before driving there as it's pretty far away.

[BMW F22]

Although I asked for it, I don't think the dealer opened a PUMA for the car. Does it matter whether one was opened or not? I really don't want to keep coming back and give them one opportunity after another to fix the issue.

[BMW F22]

So it took me almost 2 hrs (traffic) after work to go pick up the car. Got here (at dealer now), went on a drive with the SA because the foreman had left for the day and asked that I go on a drive with someone here to confirm. Before I left the dealership, I turned the steering wheel and the noise is still there. They said that they put in some felt tape for the 2 trim pieces that snap together and that solved the rattling noise. Now when turn the steering wheel I get a resistance. I can actually feel something inside that's making it a tiny bit harder to turn.

Edit: took car home. Awaiting BMWNA's decision before I push much further with legal actions. This is just ridiculous.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

So it took me almost 2 hrs (traffic) after work to go pick up the car. Got here (at dealer now), went on a drive with the SA because the foreman had left for the day and asked that I go on a drive with someone here to confirm. Before I left the dealership, I turned the steering wheel and the noise is still there. They said that they put in some felt tape for the 2 trim pieces that snap together and that solved the rattling noise. Now when turn the steering wheel I get a resistance. I can actually feel something inside that's making it a tiny bit harder to turn.

Edit: took car home. Awaiting BMWNA's decision before I push much further with legal actions. This is just ridiculous.

So why did they make you go if the noise is still there ?

Do they even know where the noise is coming from? Did you ask them if it is the rack?

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

So why did they make you go if the noise is still there ?

Do they even know where the noise is coming from? Did you ask them if it is the rack?

I don't know. I think they were test driving it at high speeds and with music and/or AC on. It's not loud enough to hear over that. I used to be quite loud but has been tamed a bit. Show to SA and he agreed it's there. Showed to service manager and he was pretending like it's not there. He said "well there are certain noises that are acceptable. Also, you need to drive it and not at a stand still." I said fine let's go on a drive. Drove him in the parking lot and even when we were moving the noise was there when I turned the steering wheel to the left. That's been the exact same problem I brought it in 6 times ago. Also, I can feel the steering having resistance because of the felt tape they put inside. That and a slight clunky noise.

At the end of the day they told me to take it home and wait for BMW's decision.