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2Addicts | BMW 2-Series forum Technical Topics N55 (M235i) Engine, Transmission, Exhaust, Tuning Too bad we can't get a real ECU tune (New GTI/A3 APR tune out)

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      07-29-2014, 12:08 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddycat View Post
I was thinking about a piggyback unit. I haven't done much tuning in the past--anything wrong with that vs. a flash?
They each have their pros and cons. Piggies have maps that can reconfigure the tune, flashes can be custom tuned to the engine and mods. Dinan is expensive but retains warranty. ECU flashes are not as easily reversed.
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      07-29-2014, 11:35 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daddycat View Post
I was thinking about a piggyback unit. I haven't done much tuning in the past--anything wrong with that vs. a flash?
There is nothing wrong with a piggyback.
The flash would be a cleaner solution.
That being said if you go with a reliable tune(JB4,AFE) you will be very happy with the results.
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      07-29-2014, 11:54 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramos View Post
I switched out of a 2011 GTI into the M235. My GTI was bone stock and within 2 years of ownership had to replace the radiator and the water pump twice. The brakes are also crap and the clutch can barely handle the stock torque.

Anyone upping the power on a GTI without supporting major upgrades to cooking, brakes and clutch is just asking for trouble IMO
Appreciate the feedback on this as those APR gains look incredible. But if the foundation is no bueno, then all you do is accelerate reduced reliability even further.
I am wondering about the new MkVII GTI as that EA888 engine with its new "larger turbo" looks interesting, BUT will it hold. I guess the first steering recall on this GTI has already set the VW trend?
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      07-29-2014, 12:29 PM   #26
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ECU tuning has its pitfalls, coming from the MK6 GTI world, the North American ECUs had to be physically cracked open and bench flashed. If they weren't sealed properly water could get in and fry the boards. Piggy backing is how I've tuned my Diesel truck, through Banks, and my BMW with JB4, haven't had an issue with either.
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      07-29-2014, 08:14 PM   #27
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First off, to all saying APR or a tuned VAG is unreliable, I ran my STG2 GTi for 80k and no problems, and no I don't baby my cars. APR is kinda-of the Dinan of the VAG world, they take their time; produce a safe, lower power, product than competitors. All that being said, has anyone ever contacted APR about entering the BMW world? They have the resources to...
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      07-29-2014, 08:53 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by four7
First off, to all saying APR or a tuned VAG is unreliable, I ran my STG2 GTi for 80k and no problems, and no I don't baby my cars. APR is kinda-of the Dinan of the VAG world, they take their time; produce a safe, lower power, product than competitors. All that being said, has anyone ever contacted APR about entering the BMW world? They have the resources to...
I remember contacting APR a few years ago asking if they were ever thinking of coming out with software for the 335i and their response was no and seemed like they had no interest in it either.

Would be interesting if they did though. I would consider them as well.
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      07-30-2014, 12:43 AM   #29
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I absolutely loved my 1.8t Jetta with APR, served me very well for five years of family use and auto-x without a single issue. Had all the programs, full TBE and other goodies. I'd love it if they entered the BMW arena.
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      07-30-2014, 12:50 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
ECU tuning has its pitfalls, coming from the MK6 GTI world, the North American ECUs had to be physically cracked open and bench flashed. If they weren't sealed properly water could get in and fry the boards.
Agree, one of the pitfalls of the Mk6 and a reason I haven't push my wife to modify our 2013 GTI. Late 2008 and 2009 was the best year to get a GTI/GLI to modify it. It gets the newer TSI engine, but can still be flashed over the CAN port. I had an 09 GLI with the slightly bigger k04 turbo and supporting mods, and it was a very fun car with just over 300 whp and plenty more torque.

The Mk7 Golf R should be an interesting car. Fully disabled ESP from the factory, and APR should be able to come up with very good numbers. It's a shame their 4Motion AWD is FWD-biased.
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      07-31-2014, 12:27 AM   #31
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A buddy of mine has a tuned R32 that's a blast to drive but I think he has as much $ in --engine, suspension, turbo--as it cost to buy. I drove a tuned Mk 6 about a few months ago, appeared to be a piggyback upgrade and it was wicked fast. Was thinking a similar upgrade would be just the ticket for those very special occasions when I can let my hair down, so to speak. And, from what I read, they're undetectable (?) from a warranty perspective which sounds good. Otherwise I've already got more performance than I can use on the street (and I love to use it!)... 228i, to me at least with the M package is such a balanced machine, fits like a glove, and is so responsive I didn't need to test the M235 which I'm sure is great. But I've had high(er) horsepower rides in the past so have been there done that. Keep posting the tech details and pros/cons, guys--this is great to study up on!
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      07-31-2014, 09:01 PM   #32
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MK6 GTI motor can easily handle the extra power, what I'm suggesting is that the rest of the car isn't.. Specifically cooling system, brakes and clutch

Those are known unreliable areas if these cars even at stock power levels
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      08-03-2014, 01:26 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84 View Post
I remember contacting APR a few years ago asking if they were ever thinking of coming out with software for the 335i and their response was no and seemed like they had no interest in it either.

Would be interesting if they did though. I would consider them as well.
I paid around 1800 for my tune/ pulley from them ON SALE for my B8S4. They aren't interested because the market is not going to pay APR prices for a BMW. People steer clear of Dinan for the most part due to the pricing and I'm sure APR would be within a few 100 and offer no warranty.
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      08-03-2014, 01:37 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84 View Post
I remember contacting APR a few years ago asking if they were ever thinking of coming out with software for the 335i and their response was no and seemed like they had no interest in it either.

Would be interesting if they did though. I would consider them as well.
I paid around 1800 for my tune/ pulley from them ON SALE for my B8S4. They aren't interested because the market is not going to pay APR prices for a BMW. People steer clear of Dinan for the most part due to the pricing and I'm sure APR would be within a few 100 and offer no warranty.
Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

BMW aftermarket is usually more or just as expensive as APR. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't make any money on BMW products. I think their focus is more on VAG products and that's it. They probably don't want to take on any more work then they do right now as I'm sure they're plenty busy. My .02 though.

Also, I'm considering Dinan and not primarily because of the warranty either.
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      08-06-2014, 10:31 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84 View Post
Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

BMW aftermarket is usually more or just as expensive as APR. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't make any money on BMW products. I think their focus is more on VAG products and that's it. They probably don't want to take on any more work then they do right now as I'm sure they're plenty busy. My .02 though.

Also, I'm considering Dinan and not primarily because of the warranty either.
When it comes to tuning the BMW offerings that most go with are priced well below what I paid. Even removing the $500 pulley the tune on sale is 1299 if I remember correctly. I haven't been on here long enough to get an idea on percentages but I think it's safe to say that the ~$600 JB4 is by far the most popular tuning option.
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      08-06-2014, 10:35 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apexit
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinny84 View Post
Sorry, but I don't agree with that at all.

BMW aftermarket is usually more or just as expensive as APR. I wouldn't see why they wouldn't make any money on BMW products. I think their focus is more on VAG products and that's it. They probably don't want to take on any more work then they do right now as I'm sure they're plenty busy. My .02 though.

Also, I'm considering Dinan and not primarily because of the warranty either.
When it comes to tuning the BMW offerings that most go with are priced well below what I paid. Even removing the $500 pulley the tune on sale is 1299 if I remember correctly. I haven't been on here long enough to get an idea on percentages but I think it's safe to say that the ~$600 JB4 is by far the most popular tuning option.
I would compare APR along the lines of Dinan.

I guess you could say that though. Some people as myself will not consider a jb4 as an option.
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      08-14-2014, 01:02 AM   #37
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Endusers need to bug GIAC more...maybe they will finally release their N55 tune to the public.
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      08-14-2014, 02:08 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Endusers need to bug GIAC more...maybe they will finally release their N55 tune to the public.
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      08-14-2014, 11:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by four7 View Post
First off, to all saying APR or a tuned VAG is unreliable, I ran my STG2 GTi for 80k and no problems, and no I don't baby my cars. APR is kinda-of the Dinan of the VAG world, they take their time; produce a safe, lower power, product than competitors. All that being said, has anyone ever contacted APR about entering the BMW world? They have the resources to...
There is lots of local Audi and VW guys on APR without issues. And all of our GIAC customers are very happy as well with their GTI or Golf R.

Both APR and GIAC take their time on R&D, they double and triple check on a dyno and real world and sometimes on the track(I know GIAC is tested on the track as we lots of testing for them on the BMW platforms) to make sure the software is reliable, smooth and deliver power within the designed parameters of the hardware.

Piggy backs are just not reliable enough for track duty. I can't remember the last time I see any piggy backs ran reliably for the full 20-25 minute track session. Often they are in the pits resetting or the vehicle will go into a limp mode in a couple of hot laps.
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      08-14-2014, 11:55 AM   #40
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Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
Piggy backs are just not reliable enough for track duty. I can't remember the last time I see any piggy backs ran reliably for the full 20-25 minute track session. Often they are in the pits resetting or the vehicle will go into a limp mode in a couple of hot laps.
Are you referring to guys pushing their engines to the absolute limit or normal guys bumping their boost a bit?
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      08-14-2014, 12:03 PM   #41
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Are you referring to guys pushing their engines to the absolute limit or normal guys bumping their boost a bit?
I don't see much down side to running a piggy back on the street. However, for aggressive driving and track duty, go with a reliable software flash.
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      08-14-2014, 12:06 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
I don't see much down side to running a piggy back on the street. However, for aggressive driving and track duty, go with a reliable software flash.
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      08-14-2014, 06:31 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pray for Mojo View Post
ECU tuning has its pitfalls, coming from the MK6 GTI world, the North American ECUs had to be physically cracked open and bench flashed. If they weren't sealed properly water could get in and fry the boards. Piggy backing is how I've tuned my Diesel truck, through Banks, and my BMW with JB4, haven't had an issue with either.
The MK7 can be port-tuned, not via the ECU.
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      08-17-2014, 04:19 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HP Autosport View Post
I don't see much down side to running a piggy back on the street. However, for aggressive driving and track duty, go with a reliable software flash.
Problem is nobody has a direct flash for the newer N55 ecu's, even Dinan is a piggy back system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by glayfan40 View Post
The MK7 can be port-tuned, not via the ECU.

Yup you're right. The MK7 doesn't have a bosch ecu anymore that's why. It's a Continental SIMOS 12....
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