[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by mcompact

At BMW CCA HPDEs students have to be signed off by their instructor before they can drive solo. As an instructor I won't sign off anyone that isn't ready.

I had Phil as my last instructor, said i'm Advanced intermediate but not ready for solo @ LRP.

Than I went to a SCCA event last week where everyone was solo...

Word of advice, the best hpde's are Audi, Porsche and BMW events. Next is NASA and Hooked on Driving, last is SCCA tracknights.

[mdputnam]

As others have said choose your track events carefully. Some organizations do a better job than others keeping everyone safe. Wide open track events by small organizations seem to be the most risky. Some things I look for, word of mouth (find someone who has been there before), separation into groups based on experience, tighter rules (like strictly enforced passing zones) for the less experienced groups, restricted number of cars on the track at any one time, mandatory vehicle safety inspection, track marshals in the tower, corner/flag workers covering the whole track, mandatory drivers meetings to cover the rules, strict policy on removing unsafe drivers, tow vehicle standing by, emergency vehicle standing by.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

I had Phil as my last instructor, said i'm Advanced intermediate but not ready for solo @ LRP.

Than I went to a SCCA event last week where everyone was solo...

Word of advice, the best hpde's are Audi, Porsche and BMW events. Next is NASA and Hooked on Driving, last is SCCA tracknights.

Are scca track nights that bad? I'm doing one this Wednesday.

[nike001]

Get familiar with your car, OP. I always recommend doing some auto-x first to get a handle on how your car reacts since auto-x courses are typically low(er) speeds and thus unwanted maneuvers are more easily correctable.

Here's me getting WOT a little early with a little too much steering angle and I managed to get it back in line fairly easily. The M235i has an incredible (and forgiving) chassis.

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

I had Phil as my last instructor, said i'm Advanced intermediate but not ready for solo @ LRP.

Than I went to a SCCA event last week where everyone was solo...

Word of advice, the best hpde's are Audi, Porsche and BMW events. Next is NASA and Hooked on Driving, last is SCCA tracknights.

It all depends on your level of confidence for SCCA tracknights and if what you're looking to learn (how to run the track or how to run your car). Everyone is available to do ride-alongs to teach you, and most people who are new still stay in Novice or Intermediate groups to mostly learn their car, and the Advanced guys have already done enough track days where they can (hopefully) handle themselves. There's always tow vehicles, emergency personnel, flag stations, etc. Definitely not a free for all, and you're always taught how/where to pass and how to do point-by's.

If you're new and new to pushing your (fast) car, I wouldn't recommend SCCA tracknights and would say to go for an event with an instructor. If you've done some track events before and are familiar with your car, or if your car isn't overly fast with lower handling limits, I'd say a SCCA tracknight would be fine.

Originally Posted by Hops128i

Are scca track nights that bad? I'm doing one this Wednesday.

No, they're just very lenient. Don't track a car that isn't ready and don't over-exert yourself and be a hot-head and you'll be fine. I've been to a couple and have had 0 issues and have seen 0 issues; though I've been to Pocono where the track is VERY wide, and there aren't any hills or pitch changes except on the banking of the outer triangle.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by nike001

Get familiar with your car, OP. I always recommend doing some auto-x first to get a handle on how your car reacts since auto-x courses are typically low(er) speeds and thus unwanted maneuvers are more easily correctable.

Here's me getting WOT a little early with a little too much steering angle and I managed to get it back in line fairly easily. The M235i has an incredible (and forgiving) chassis.

It all depends on your level of confidence for SCCA tracknights and if what you're looking to learn (how to run the track or how to run your car). Everyone is available to do ride-alongs to teach you, and most people who are new still stay in Novice or Intermediate groups to mostly learn their car, and the Advanced guys have already done enough track days where they can (hopefully) handle themselves. There's always tow vehicles, emergency personnel, flag stations, etc. Definitely not a free for all, and you're always taught how/where to pass and how to do point-by's.

If you're new and new to pushing your (fast) car, I wouldn't recommend SCCA tracknights and would say to go for an event with an instructor. If you've done some track events before and are familiar with your car, or if your car isn't overly fast with lower handling limits, I'd say a SCCA tracknight would be fine.



No, they're just very lenient. Don't track a car that isn't ready and don't over-exert yourself and be a hot-head and you'll be fine. I've been to a couple and have had 0 issues and have seen 0 issues; though I've been to Pocono where the track is VERY wide, and there aren't any hills or pitch changes except on the banking of the outer triangle.

That oversteer looks so manageable it looks like you could have counter-steered your way out of it in your sleep. Very nice.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

That oversteer looks so manageable it looks like you could have counter-steered your way out of it in your sleep. Very nice.

I've only had it scary sideways once and that was because I provoked it with a clutch-kick in 2nd gear while attempting to send off my prior super-sport's in an honorable way. Even then it was manageable.

You can feel the rear coming out before it does as well. I just stayed in it to see how the brand new tires would be and what their gripping point was.

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by nike001

I've only had it scary sideways once and that was because I provoked it with a clutch-kick in 2nd gear while attempting to send off my prior super-sport's in an honorable way. Even then it was manageable.

You can feel the rear coming out before it does as well. I just stayed in it to see how the brand new tires would be and what their gripping point was.

Also, what shift knob are you using? The MP one? If so, do you like it, or is it kind of forgetable?

[bryan_G01]

I'm going to njmp tommorow for scca trackday "nights" if anyone is going.

Im running in advanced class so im free for ride alongs if you want some instructions on the car.

Also check your brakes, fluid, tire pressures, charge pipe, lug nuts before you go out. Also bring 4-5 bottles of water or gatorade. You should be peeing 2 times in between your sessions. Watch out for the red mist...

[Liquidpaper]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

I'm going to njmp tommorow for scca trackday "nights" if anyone is going.

Im running in advanced class so im free for ride alongs if you want some instructions on the car.

Also check your brakes, fluid, tire pressures, charge pipe, lug nuts before you go out. Also bring 4-5 bottles of water or gatorade. You should be peeing 2 times in between your sessions. Watch out for the red mist...

Seconded on keeping hydrated. You would be shocked at how demanding driving a road car on a race track for 30 minutes can be on your body . . .

[bryan_G01]

Originally Posted by Hops128i

Are scca track nights that bad? I'm doing one this Wednesday.

As others pointed out, no... it's safe. The problem I have with scca is people go into advanced groups that have no business being there. Guys with no experience at certain tracks go into advanced because they have done 3 track days before, than after one session smash, or are completely off the line which slows everyone down and can be dangerous.

See this mustang from SCCA tracknights at LimeRock:

Im in the white 235 in front. He misses the line, comes in way to hot to almost every turn.

You should always go to a new track with an instructor until you get cleared to solo. You pay enough, take the education. And always ask to ride in his car during his session to see how a real driver handles the track.

SCCA, you tech your own car, meaning if you never tracked before you don't know the rules. Nothing in the car, no floor matts, nothing that can fly off, at you, at other cars or get stuck under a pedal.

Check your brakes, last scca guy shows up with no brakes left... Like wtf were you thinking... "Oh i'm in the advanced group and had 3 track days so far..." dude your an idiot, your car is unsafe, you never been to this track before, and you are risking you and others.

This lil rant is why i don't like scca, but if your skilled, it is a cheap way to get on track. If your a beginner, id say go to another event like BMW,Audi, or Porsche. They have expert instructors which keep you safe and teach you how to drive your car. After like 5-6 sessions you should be cleared to solo and move into advanced groups.

[pz619]

For those that have got it, what does track day insurance typically cost?

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by pz619

For those that have got it, what does track day insurance typically cost?

About $300 for 40k worth.

[Pparana]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

As others pointed out, no... it's safe. The problem I have with scca is people go into advanced groups that have no business being there. Guys with no experience at certain tracks go into advanced because they have done 3 track days before, than after one session smash, or are completely off the line which slows everyone down and can be dangerous.

See this mustang from SCCA tracknights at LimeRock:

Im in the white 235 in front. He misses the line, comes in way to hot to almost every turn.

You should always go to a new track with an instructor until you get cleared to solo. You pay enough, take the education. And always ask to ride in his car during his session to see how a real driver handles the track.

SCCA, you tech your own car, meaning if you never tracked before you don't know the rules. Nothing in the car, no floor matts, nothing that can fly off, at you, at other cars or get stuck under a pedal.

Check your brakes, last scca guy shows up with no brakes left... Like wtf were you thinking... "Oh i'm in the advanced group and had 3 track days so far..." dude your an idiot, your car is unsafe, you never been to this track before, and you are risking you and others.

This lil rant is why i don't like scca, but if your skilled, it is a cheap way to get on track. If your a beginner, id say go to another event like BMW,Audi, or Porsche. They have expert instructors which keep you safe and teach you how to drive your car. After like 5-6 sessions you should be cleared to solo and move into advanced groups.

Most large groups advanced groups are really not that advanced. They are always bumping people up to make space for students ext. I gave up on track days that offer instruction and mostly stick to open track day style, yes they are much more expensive, but much more fun. David Murry throws excellent events with this format.

It's interesting switching from wheel to wheel racing to track days, I swear some drivers at track days are way more aggressive than wheel to wheel, as if getting passed at a track day means anything.

Take it easy, bring your car home and have fun, de days are meant for learning and fun. Your driving a street car, maybe with some mods, but not a race car with a cage and halo seat. That's what I always remind myself if I get too aggressive or focused on lap time.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

I'm going to njmp tommorow for scca trackday "nights" if anyone is going.

Im running in advanced class so im free for ride alongs if you want some instructions on the car.

Also check your brakes, fluid, tire pressures, charge pipe, lug nuts before you go out. Also bring 4-5 bottles of water or gatorade. You should be peeing 2 times in between your sessions. Watch out for the red mist...

Going to be there too, in novice.

[nike001]

Originally Posted by Liquidpaper

Also, what shift knob are you using? The MP one? If so, do you like it, or is it kind of forgetable?

I'm using the last generation MP knob. It's silver instead of that flat carbon fiber look. I had it in my E46 and I like it in my F22 because it matches my trim. I love it; the ZHP (stock) knob feels huge after I switch back to it sometimes.

[Hops128i]

Originally Posted by bryan_f22

You should always go to a new track with an instructor until you get cleared to solo. You pay enough, take the education. And always ask to ride in his car during his session to see how a real driver handles the track.

SCCA, you tech your own car, meaning if you never tracked before you don't know the rules. Nothing in the car, no floor matts, nothing that can fly off, at you, at other cars or get stuck under a pedal.

It was good to see you at wednesday's track night.

Yeah, these two points you made had me a little concerned, but everyone on track in my novice group was super cool. It really contrasted my last event at summit point a couple years ago at a scca pdx: the track was packed, there was a coolant spill, another guy went into the tires because of bad brakes, and i got stuck behind people not giving point by's even with instructors in the cars.

Wednesday everyone was fast, with mechanically sound cars, and good with point by's (although i gave way more than i took!). But i can definitely see that the very casual track night atmosphere could led to a bad mix of drivers.

[rich8566]

Originally Posted by pikcachu

well at least at the bmw cca is what they say... now not sure if they enforce it or not... they might just say it for liability purposes

I drive with CCA all the time and I've never heard this except in novice and beginner groups.

[pikcachu]

Originally Posted by rich8566

I drive with CCA all the time and I've never heard this except in novice and beginner groups.

maybe it's chapter dependent

[casualDIYer]

I'd say start with the established clubs like the BMW or Porsche Club rather than the free for all, mad max type clubs. At one lapping day at Mosport's driver development track they towed 15 cars. The event was held by the Chinese Racers car club (or something like that). A lot of visa students with little experience. A luxury car smash up derby. Unreal. The good news? in a modern car you'll likely be okay in an accident.

I drive in the solo group with the BMW club at Mosport's Grand Prix track. Very rare to see the newbies get into trouble. The club won't put up with drivers not following track protocols. It's rare but the club will send drivers packing for the weekend if there are repeat issues. One driver actually got kicked out of the club for repeated problems. The final straw came when this driver disobeyed a track marshall and decided to drive back on the track after driving onto the grass.

Accidents tend to happen among the solos and sometimes the instructors. Sometimes it's truly a fluke accident but more often than not, bad judgement. In 6 years I've seen 0 accidents when it started to rain, one accident In the rain, and 3-4 just after the rain stops. Drivers get too confident before they get full grip. It's a repeat problem. Drive smart and you'll be like most drivers. Going home incident free.

[rainfall]

Originally Posted by menncars

The event was held by the Chinese Racers car club (or something like that). A lot of visa students with little experience. A luxury car smash up derby. Unreal. The good news? in a modern car you'll likely be okay in an accident.

OP here. Pretty legit tips. Thank you so much.

I hope you don't have anything against "visa students", because that's how I got here in the US
I did come self-funded and after my 30's for grad school, so I'm probably another profile type than the one you are referring to. I can't afford a car crash for reckless driving either

[ineedae46m3]

Originally Posted by nike001

Get familiar with your car, OP. I always recommend doing some auto-x first to get a handle on how your car reacts since auto-x courses are typically low(er) speeds and thus unwanted maneuvers are more easily correctable.

Here's me getting WOT a little early with a little too much steering angle and I managed to get it back in line fairly easily. The M235i has an incredible (and forgiving) chassis.

It all depends on your level of confidence for SCCA tracknights and if what you're looking to learn (how to run the track or how to run your car). Everyone is available to do ride-alongs to teach you, and most people who are new still stay in Novice or Intermediate groups to mostly learn their car, and the Advanced guys have already done enough track days where they can (hopefully) handle themselves. There's always tow vehicles, emergency personnel, flag stations, etc. Definitely not a free for all, and you're always taught how/where to pass and how to do point-by's.

If you're new and new to pushing your (fast) car, I wouldn't recommend SCCA tracknights and would say to go for an event with an instructor. If you've done some track events before and are familiar with your car, or if your car isn't overly fast with lower handling limits, I'd say a SCCA tracknight would be fine.



No, they're just very lenient. Don't track a car that isn't ready and don't over-exert yourself and be a hot-head and you'll be fine. I've been to a couple and have had 0 issues and have seen 0 issues; though I've been to Pocono where the track is VERY wide, and there aren't any hills or pitch changes except on the banking of the outer triangle.

Were you in sport, sport+, or did you have everything off? I assume everything off to be able to oversteer that much?

I have only run in sport at the track at this point.

[casualDIYer]

Originally Posted by rainfall

OP here. Pretty legit tips. Thank you so much.

I hope you don't have anything against "visa students", because that's how I got here in the US
I did come self-funded and after my 30's for grad school, so I'm probably another profile type than the one you are referring to. I can't afford a car crash for reckless driving either

I'm sure these guys are not typical. They come over and tell Mum and Dad a Toyota Corolla is a $100,000 and buy something ridiculous. It's not the fact they are visa students that causes them to crash their cars. It's their complete lack of experience.