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      06-04-2014, 07:49 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
It might be inevitable...

Not until I know what the M2 will be like (and look like as well). And I'd still not get rid of the E92, only add.
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      06-04-2014, 07:50 AM   #68
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very nice, M2 is looking like M3/4 performance killer
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      06-04-2014, 08:39 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W///
Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
It might be inevitable...

Not until I know what the M2 will be like (and look like as well). And I'd still not get rid of the E92, only add.
Add a supercharger and you may not even care.
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      06-04-2014, 08:50 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sapper_M3 View Post
I wasn't trying to leave anything out, bud. Those are exact performance metrics on the E92 M3 as tested by C&D (from the following link: http://media.caranddriver.com/files/...ac-cts-v-2.pdf) in one comparison test, and I cited them as one example of C&D's optimistic testing results. If you want to cite other, more conservative articles that C&D might have published, that's great, but my point wasn't that C&D is always wrong--just that they often have very optimistic results because of the different testing methods mentioned in an earlier post.

Again, I have no interest in disparaging C&D, the new M235i, or the old E92 M3....but when it comes to performance metrics, I never cite C&D as my realistic gauge of performance figures. I'm a big fan of their writing and photography though!
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 9.9 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 26.0 sec
Street start, 5-60 mph: 4.9 sec
Standing �¼-mile: 12.7 sec @ 113 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 161 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 147 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.96 g

Car magazine test results in the US are always optimistic. When comparing vehicles, you use that same magazine and look at their other results. Once you do, you will see the 235i is very impressive compared to other cars they recently tested.

435i 6MT

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 5.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.2 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 32.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 6.0 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 7.2 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 6.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.7 sec @ 105 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 155 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 170 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g

S5 6MT

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.6 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.5 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.1 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 6.8 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 5.9 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.2 sec @ 107 mph
Top speed (limited): 155 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 163 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.95 g

CLA45 4Matic

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.2 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.6 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 15.9 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.7 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 3.7 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.4 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.8 sec @ 110 mph
Top speed (gear limited): 158 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 152 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad*: 0.94 g


Jag F-Type V6 S

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.9 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 19.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 4.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 109 mph
Top speed (drag limited): 164 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 158 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g

X5 Xdrive 5.0

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.3 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 10.7 sec
Zero to 120 mph: 15.8 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.3 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.6 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 12.8 sec @ 109 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 129 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 172 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.81 g

Maserati Ghibli

C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 12.0 sec
Zero to 130 mph: 21.6 sec
Rolling start, 5-60 mph: 5.8 sec
Top gear, 30-50 mph: 2.9 sec
Top gear, 50-70 mph: 3.5 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.4 sec @ 105 mph
Top speed (drag ltd): 175 mph
Braking, 70-0 mph: 155 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.91 g*
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      06-04-2014, 08:54 AM   #71
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C/D 0-60 times are with a roll out and temperature corrected.
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      06-04-2014, 08:55 AM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by basiluf View Post
Car magazine test results in the US are always optimistic. When comparing vehicles, you use that same magazine and look at their other results. Once you do, you will see the 235i is very impressive compared to other cars they recently tested.
I think that's all anyone is saying. Yes, many US car magazines obtain unrealistically low 0-60 numbers, but C&D is in a whole other league. That applies to most of their tests, not just the M235i.

The problem is that arm chair drag racers love to put C&D performance figures up against other publication's numbers. Obviously you get it, because you went through the trouble of sourcing all your information from C&D. The other posters here are just cautioning against the practice of the former methodology.
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      06-04-2014, 09:13 AM   #73
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"you’re getting 100 percent of the outgoing M3’s performance for two-thirds the price".

So the M4 should give me 150% percent of the outgoing M3’s performance for the same price then. LOL
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      06-04-2014, 09:17 AM   #74
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Wow this makes me want an M235i that much more. Wish i could afford to trade in my 135i
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      06-04-2014, 09:29 AM   #75
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleyland
Quote:
Originally Posted by basiluf View Post
Car magazine test results in the US are always optimistic. When comparing vehicles, you use that same magazine and look at their other results. Once you do, you will see the 235i is very impressive compared to other cars they recently tested.
I think that's all anyone is saying. Yes, many US car magazines obtain unrealistically low 0-60 numbers, but C&D is in a whole other league. That applies to most of their tests, not just the M235i.

The problem is that arm chair drag racers love to put C&D performance figures up against other publication's numbers. Obviously you get it, because you went through the trouble of sourcing all your information from C&D. The other posters here are just cautioning against the practice of the former methodology.
Exactly.
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      06-04-2014, 09:49 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wdlfbio View Post
I'm still waiting for a few folks to push their cars hard to see if this version can take the big boy track days without overheating, limping, or flat out breaking.
I did a track day last sunday at Laguna Seca. No issues with overheating. The brakes did ok, almost no fading but I would still change the brake pads and the breaking fluids for a consistent breaking.

Here are some videos if you want to have a look
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=21
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      06-04-2014, 09:51 AM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alz0rz
*M*235i, some people are really bothered by that. Sorry but that is what the car is called and the M moniker will go with it, whether they like it or not.

At the end of the day, I'll tell people I drive an M235i, and with the performance to back it up, that will be that.
bmw has got you exactly how they want you thinking. it aint no m2. lol. i call it an m235i too but the m has a totally different meaningg
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      06-04-2014, 09:52 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine F31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ricfutures View Post
M2 will be absolutely amazing. Let's just hope they don't limit the production like the 1M.
Let us pray....

The potential of the M2 has me completely off the M4 bandwagon. I even changed my avatar.
inwas going to say where did you get that pic? looks great. (pkim)
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      06-04-2014, 09:58 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oyinko
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdlfbio View Post
I'm still waiting for a few folks to push their cars hard to see if this version can take the big boy track days without overheating, limping, or flat out breaking.
I did a track day last sunday at Laguna Seca. No issues with overheating. The brakes did ok, almost no fading but I would still change the brake pads and the breaking fluids for a consistent breaking.

Here are some videos if you want to have a look
http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=21
dont know if that was pushed hard enough for over heating though. keep your hands still amd stop sticking that elbow out the window!!!
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      06-04-2014, 11:38 AM   #80
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strange result... the M235i auto should be faster than my M135i Xdrive auto...? Hum I can't believe that :s

GreG
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      06-04-2014, 11:42 AM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornmuse
strange result... the M235i auto should be faster than my M135i Xdrive auto...? Hum I can't believe that :s

GreG
doesnt it have a better tune and less weight? its possible.
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      06-04-2014, 11:46 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
bmw has got you exactly how they want you thinking. it aint no m2. lol. i call it an m235i too but the m has a totally different meaningg
Kind of confused how a willingness to buy and drive an M235i and call it by its given name is equal to buying into what the BMW marketing machine "wants you thinking." I think the vast majority of us would still buy the car even if it was called the 235is.

If you want to see BMW marketing at work, go find the uninformed buyer who knows just enough to know "M" means "special," and knows just little enough to be persuaded by a BMW salesman into believing that "M235i" means the same thing as "M+single digit." Guarantee you that kind of person is not the same as someone who's at least interested enough to read these forums.

We all know this is an intermediate, stop-gap car. We're buying it as such. None of us think this is an M2. It happens to come close to the performance of previous M cars in some areas (as it should, because technology progresses and cars get faster), and that's good enough for us. We're buying it for that reason, not just because it has an "M" in front of it. And when the true M2 comes along, it will blow away the M-Performance cars or whatever you want to call the M235i, as it should.

Sorry for the rant. This wasn't solely directed at you; I just find it a little odd that the presence of an M badge is leading to a badge obsession within the BMW community when you should really be worried about its effect outside the community (if you really even want to be worried about it at all). I don't really know what M235i owners are supposed to do, but they can't be expected to have this conversation all day long just to please their M-badge overlords: "What do you drive? An-M235i-where-the-M-doesn't-stand-for-the-same-thing-as-the-M-traditionally-used-to-signify-specially-crafted-race-bred-cars-within-the-BMW-brand."
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      06-04-2014, 11:48 AM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marcva View Post
As the owner of a mere US spec E36M (1997 332i), it's kind of nice not having a "Real" M car. The replacement parts are much more affordable, and you can toss your car around the track with much more abandon since you're risking fewer dollars.

The numbers on the M235 look good. There's plenty of performance for my schlog to and from work. the only time I might have HP envy of an M car is on the long straight of some tracks. Unfortunately, my track days are fewer and further in between, so I'll be happy lapping in whatever.

I STILL NEED 4 DOORS...Just in case BMW NA is listening.
+1 how about that 2GC that was shelved because of no business case...
CLA and A3 seem to be selling GREAT
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      06-04-2014, 11:48 AM   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomps
Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
bmw has got you exactly how they want you thinking. it aint no m2. lol. i call it an m235i too but the m has a totally different meaningg
Kind of confused how a willingness to buy and drive an M235i and call it by its given name is equal to buying into what the BMW marketing machine "wants you thinking." I think the vast majority of us would still buy the car even if it was called the 235is.

If you want to see BMW marketing at work, go find the uninformed buyer who knows just enough to know "M" means "special," and knows just little enough to be persuaded by a BMW salesman into believing that "M235i" means the same thing as "M+single digit." Guarantee you that kind of person is not the same as someone who's at least interested enough to read these forums.

We all know this is an intermediate, stop-gap car. We're buying it as such. None of us think this is an M2. It happens to come close to the performance of previous M cars in some areas (as it should, because technology progresses and cars get faster), and that's good enough for us. We're buying it for that reason, not just because it has an "M" in front of it. And when the true M2 comes along, it will blow away the M-Performance cars or whatever you want to call the M235i, as it should.

Sorry for the rant. This wasn't solely directed at you; I just find it a little odd that the presence of an M badge is leading to a badge obsession within the BMW community when you should really be worried about its effect outside the community (if you really even want to be worried about it at all). I don't really know what M235i owners are supposed to do, but they can't be expected to have this conversation all day long just to please their M-badge overlords: "What do you drive? An-M235i-where-the-M-doesn't-stand-for-the-same-thing-as-the-M-traditionally-used-to-signify-specially-crafted-race-bred-cars-within-the-BMW-brand."
and i agree with you but did you see what the guy i quoted said?
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      06-04-2014, 11:48 AM   #85
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Better tune ? The M235i is 326 hp, the M135i has 320hp and a Xdrvie is really faster on launch than a RWD... look at that video RWD vs AWD M135i.



The fastest M135i Xdrive kill the 0-60 on 4.5s... I think there is a mistake.

GreG
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      06-04-2014, 11:55 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlowSaloonM3 View Post
and i agree with you but did you see what the guy i quoted said?
Maybe it comes down to a difference of interpretation over "with the performance to back it up." I would tend to side with you that we shouldn't mistake the performance of the car as a reason to go around calling it a true M-car when we all know it's not. But that statement could just as easily mean "it's a legitimately quick car, fast enough to deserve some kind of distinction from the regular lineup, and who cares how BMW decides to make that distinction; I certainly don't."

At the end of the day, anyone familiar with BMW will know Mxxx doesn't mean the same thing as Mx. And everyone, familiar with BMW or not, will recognize that the car is pretty quick.
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      06-04-2014, 12:00 PM   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kornmuse View Post
Better tune ? The M235i is 326 hp, the M135i has 320hp and a Xdrvie is really faster on launch than a RWD... look at that video RWD vs AWD M135i.



The fastest M135i Xdrive kill the 0-60 on 4.5s... I think there is a mistake.

GreG
C&D uses a rollout that skews the results, so you can only really compare C&D results with other C&D results. A rollout would also neutralize some of the advantages of Xdrive.

It's also tough to deduce how cars should perform based solely on BMW's factory HP ratings because these are widely known to be underestimated. It's hard to tell from model to model how much BMW underestimates power.

That said, I think in a raw, controlled comparison, an M135i Xdrive would probably beat an M235i to 60 mph, but I have absolutely nothing scientific to back that up.
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      06-04-2014, 12:44 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomps View Post
That said, I think in a raw, controlled comparison, an M135i Xdrive would probably beat an M235i to 60 mph, but I have absolutely nothing scientific to back that up.
Four wheels pushing the car forward is enough science for me Although, I'd speculate a tie, rather than a win.

AWD cars can win the sprint to 60 with a reasonable power deficit. Most of their advantage is in the 0-30 MPH range though. Look at the numbers for the STi in this comparison against the M235i and the CLA 45 AMG. The STi is down on power and torque, yet it wins to the race to 30 by 0.4s. Ultimately, it loses by a full two-tenths at 60 MPH, but the N55 powered M135i would fare better, as it's power delivery more closely matches the M235i than the boxer in the STi.
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